756 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

Dave of Canada wrote...

royard wrote...

So why does paragon has more content?  Because that's the theme/premise of the game!

Then it's a poor theme and reeks of a writer's agenda.

Bingo.

All though it may not be a poor theme; some anvils need to be dropped.

[incinerator950]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

While doing ncie things won't always reward you with nice things, doing vile things ALSO won't always reward you with nice things. 

A renegade shepard can literally be the vilest person in the ME universe yet is there ANY blowback towards Shepard? Does he get charged more or not allowed to do anything? Indeed, if anything, humanity is rewarded by having Shepard the jerk be the face of humanity?

I don't speak for everyone but most people I tend to agree with and fall onto the "renegade" camp want consequences and rewards for both sides, not just one side being labeled the correct path and the other labeled the failure.

Agreed.  If we can't have an even neutrality for the game, give us moral and game repercussions and consequences for both Paragon and Renegade decisions and actions. 

[DJBare]

DPSSOC wrote...

Hey that's not fair.  There was a perfectly good reason to rough up Mouse, he was being an uncooperative little s*** and you are running on a time limit.

What time limit?, I've never seen a time limit when questioning Mouse, you can get mouse to cooperate with a paragon speech check.

[Hunter of Legends]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

While doing ncie things won't always reward you with nice things, doing vile things ALSO won't always reward you with nice things. 

A renegade shepard can literally be the vilest person in the ME universe yet is there ANY blowback towards Shepard? Does he get charged more or not allowed to do anything? Indeed, if anything, humanity is rewarded by having Shepard the jerk be the face of humanity?

I don't speak for everyone but most people I tend to agree with and fall onto the "renegade" camp want consequences and rewards for both sides, not just one side being labeled the correct path and the other labeled the failure.

That would be nice, but again I already knew what a renegade playthrough would bring. Now I have a renegon playtrough that will most likeky net the same ending as my full paragon but I can agree with this argument.

Alas however it would appear that Bioware went Avatar/CoD/any cliche on being nice to the world on us.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Bingo.

All though it may not be a poor theme; some anvils need to be dropped.

Well I hope somebody makes a better game that doesn't have this ****ty agenda.

I also hope you an anvil gets dropped on your head.

Are you three years old?

The grammar and spelling certainly would match the lack of maturity and narrow-mindedness.

[Hunter of Legends]

DJBare wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Hey that's not fair.  There was a perfectly good reason to rough up Mouse, he was being an uncooperative little s*** and you are running on a time limit.

What time limit?, I've never seen a time limit when questioning Mouse, you can get mouse to cooperate with a paragon speech check.

You can also beat the crap out of him.

I still get sick to my stomach on that one.

[BlueMagitek]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

None of those choices do any good for anyone, sans the Balak situation. Killing Morinth is commen sense; renegade option allows her to live.

Again, you decided to take these actions. It helps if you set your shepard out first and make consistent decisions.

Letting a murderer go is good for the murderer, bad for everyone else.  Letting a gang leader go is bad for the gang leader and you're a horribly spiteful person for letting him live (the Shadow Broke wants him dead, after all).  Letting the batarians go puts other humans in danger (and while some are looting, others are just trying to not die amongst the gang violence).

[eye basher]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saphra as much as you complain about it you are still going to play the game.

Hmm. If you want to buy it for me I might play it. Otherwise no, I'm not going to waste money on it.

Once I have my new PC I'll have more than enough to keep me occupied.

I post here for the following reasons:

Habit

Latent love for Mass Effect

Stanely Woo has way more lenient than I thought he would

Everyone that says there not gonna buy something do it anything else is just a lie to make themselves feel better.

[Dave of Canada]

eye basher wrote...
Everyone that says there not gonna buy something do it anything else is just a lie to make themselves feel better.

That didn't work when people were saying that about Dragon Age 2.

[incinerator950]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

None of those choices do any good for anyone, sans the Balak situation. Killing Morinth is commen sense; renegade option allows her to live.

Again, you decided to take these actions. It helps if you set your shepard out first and make consistent decisions.

Letting a murderer go is good for the murderer, bad for everyone else.  Letting a gang leader go is bad for the gang leader and you're a horribly spiteful person for letting him live (the Shadow Broke wants him dead, after all).  Letting the batarians go puts other humans in danger (and while some are looting, others are just trying to not die amongst the gang violence).

No, it doesn't.  However, apparently letting the majority of them go magically changes their lives around, and not want retaliation against Shepard.  Except in the case of Balak.

[Candidate 88766]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

While doing ncie things won't always reward you with nice things, doing vile things ALSO won't always reward you with nice things. 

A renegade shepard can literally be the vilest person in the ME universe yet is there ANY blowback towards Shepard? Does he get charged more or not allowed to do anything? Indeed, if anything, humanity is rewarded by having Shepard the jerk be the face of humanity?

I don't speak for everyone but most people I tend to agree with and fall onto the "renegade" camp want consequences and rewards for both sides, not just one side being labeled the correct path and the other labeled the failure.

Both moralities can achieve the best possible ending, its just harder for renegades. 

Paragon choices tend to forge alliances and friendships with other species, while renegade choices tend to strengthen humanity. Either is fine depending on your preferences. However, we know that ME3 starts with humanity getting hit rather hard by the Reapers. The only option is to seek help from the other species. It makes sense that people who have chosen lots of renegade choices have a harder time achieving the best ending - many of their choices have damaged relations with other species. This is a consequence for your actions - it may be harder for the best victory - but will also surely provide a much greater sense of satisfaction should you win.

If both morality paths had the exact same chance of winning then it would render the choice a bit pointless. If they make one path harder to achieve victory with, you actually have a consequence for your actions. Isn't that what we want?

[Hunter of Legends]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

None of those choices do any good for anyone, sans the Balak situation. Killing Morinth is commen sense; renegade option allows her to live.

Again, you decided to take these actions. It helps if you set your shepard out first and make consistent decisions.

Letting a murderer go is good for the murderer, bad for everyone else.  Letting a gang leader go is bad for the gang leader and you're a horribly spiteful person for letting him live (the Shadow Broke wants him dead, after all).  Letting the batarians go puts other humans in danger (and while some are looting, others are just trying to not die amongst the gang violence).

Renegade lets Morinth live...I always killed her sans my renegon playthrough.

Fist is an interesting case. He is into crime but killing an unarmed man who should be put on trial isn't much better.

I agree with the Balak situation and even have some full paragons who killed the workers to kill balak. That one is one of the few moral choices I feel bioware nailed down right.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm just going to ignore you, but in some ways I pity you for being such a moron.

I think you should really look into the mirror.

After all you are the one who retorted to insults after I had disproven/disagree with your stance. Who is really the fool here?

[BlueMagitek]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Renegade lets Morinth live...I always killed her sans my renegon playthrough.

Fist is an interesting case. He is into crime but killing an unarmed man who should be put on trial isn't much better.

I agree with the Balak situation and even have some full paragons who killed the workers to kill balak. That one is one of the few moral choices I feel bioware nailed down right.

You keep bringing up Morinth when I'm not talking about her at all.  Picking the Renegade option will allow you to save Samara *or* Morinth, it doesn't autoselect for you.

Except you don't put him on trial and he's wanted by the Shadow Broker. 

Kill Balak? Why on earth would you kill such a wonderful source of information?  Shoot him a few times and then send him off to the Alliance for "interrogation".  

[DPSSOC]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

I hate to break this to you, Hunter, but both Paragon & Renegade Shepards are going to shoot people. Pure Neutral Shepards are going to shoot people.

And between the two of them, Renegade Shepard isn't the one claiming every store on the Citadel is in fact his favorite store on the Citadel.

Paragon shepard doesn't kill innocent people, rough up young Mouse or let injured Salarians and a feeble girl stranded on a planet die FOR ABSOLUTELY no reason.

Hey that's not fair.  There was a perfectly good reason to rough up Mouse, he was being an uncooperative little s*** and you are running on a time limit.  Not entirely getting what the second reference is, apologies poor memory but is that a side mission I missed or...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
I am loving my renegade shep playthrough right now but you renegade players are sadly niave to think there would be no rammifications for your actions.

Terribly ignorant on how this would go down.

Ok here's what you need to get there is a break, a very important break, between punishing Shepard (the character) and punishing the player.  Punish Shepard all you want, but punishing the player by denying them content is not ok.  If you make one path noticeably superior for the player you are doing it wrong.

Then you aren't playing the game right. A full renegade Shepard would love a human dominated galaxy with just humans.

If you find issue with your shepard perhaps you should make consistent decisions?

The hell are you talking about?  My point was that the rammifications for Shepard's actions shouldn't extend to the player.  ME2 does have consequences extending to the player for making Renegade decisions (about 1 hour less content at least) and that' not how it should go.

And I don't have issue with my Shepard, I love my Shepard, but I do have issue with the way certain decisions seem to be going because they don't negatively effect Shepard, just me.  Shepard hasn't been inconvenienced at all (so far), I am getting screwed.

Here I'll give you a bit of a break down of what I'm talking about strictly within the confines of ME2.

Rachni
- No rachni allies punishes Shepard
- No acknowledgement that the Rachni were killed, punishes me

Council
- Not getting Spectre status back and perhaps not having as many alien allies punishes Shepard
- Not getting to see the new Council, punishes me

And for those saying, "Well what did you expect the Rachni are dead what kind of content could you get?"  To which I say one line.  One line spoken by any of the squad or crew from ME1 (I'm thinking Joker) after you complete the suicide mission, "First the Rachni now the Collectors, were you stung as a child?"  That's it, that is all it would take.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 05 février 2012 - 05:51 .

[Candidate 88766]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saphra as much as you complain about it you are still going to play the game.

Hmm. If you want to buy it for me I might play it. Otherwise no, I'm not going to waste money on it.

Once I have my new PC I'll have more than enough to keep me occupied.

I post here for the following reasons:

Habit

Latent love for Mass Effect

Stanely Woo has way more lenient than I thought he would

Not to be rude Saphra, but would your time not be better spent discussing things on a forum dedicated to something you like? Obviously without criticism and debate these forums would be pretty boring, but after a while criticising something you have no interest in buying must get a bit pointless no? Its your time, and its obviously up to you what you do with it, but I personally struggle to understand why you'd want to spend so much time discussing something you hate. I just doesn't seem like a great use of time to me.

Edit: this isn't meant to be a veiled insult, or an inference of anything, I'm just genuinely curious.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 05 février 2012 - 06:00 .

[Hunter of Legends]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Renegade lets Morinth live...I always killed her sans my renegon playthrough.

Fist is an interesting case. He is into crime but killing an unarmed man who should be put on trial isn't much better.

I agree with the Balak situation and even have some full paragons who killed the workers to kill balak. That one is one of the few moral choices I feel bioware nailed down right.

You keep bringing up Morinth when I'm not talking about her at all.  Picking the Renegade option will allow you to save Samara *or* Morinth, it doesn't autoselect for you.

Except you don't put him on trial and he's wanted by the Shadow Broker. 

Kill Balak? Why on earth would you kill such a wonderful source of information?  Shoot him a few times and then send him off to the Alliance for "interrogation".  

Well which murderor do you speak of there were several?

I know you don't but simply killing him in cold blood isn't the right thing to do. And last I checked not only does shepard NOT answer to the Shadow Broker he isn't one of the good guys...

Yes, I meant deal with Balak, not just kill. I mispoke and meant to say deal with him; regardless my point still stands.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Paragon choices tend to forge alliances and friendships with other species,

No, not really. For every species you befriend you also alienate another.

Curing the krogan is not what the Council wants.

Restoring the rachni is not what the krogan want.

Empowering the geth is not what the quarians want.

Destroying the base is not what Cerberus wants.

Choices exist in a vaccuum though so nobody ever notices how shiftless and underhanded Paragon Shepard is.

It's called Diplomacy and compromise.

Something people on here seem to forget...

[incinerator950]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

While doing ncie things won't always reward you with nice things, doing vile things ALSO won't always reward you with nice things. 

A renegade shepard can literally be the vilest person in the ME universe yet is there ANY blowback towards Shepard? Does he get charged more or not allowed to do anything? Indeed, if anything, humanity is rewarded by having Shepard the jerk be the face of humanity?

I don't speak for everyone but most people I tend to agree with and fall onto the "renegade" camp want consequences and rewards for both sides, not just one side being labeled the correct path and the other labeled the failure.

Both moralities can achieve the best possible ending, its just harder for renegades. 

Paragon choices tend to forge alliances and friendships with other species, while renegade choices tend to strengthen humanity. Either is fine depending on your preferences. However, we know that ME3 starts with humanity getting hit rather hard by the Reapers. The only option is to seek help from the other species. It makes sense that people who have chosen lots of renegade choices have a harder time achieving the best ending - many of their choices have damaged relations with other species. This is a consequence for your actions - it may be harder for the best victory - but will also surely provide a much greater sense of satisfaction should you win.

If both morality paths had the exact same chance of winning then it would render the choice a bit pointless. If they make one path harder to achieve victory with, you actually have a consequence for your actions. Isn't that what we want?

It is.  However, the consequence of having to make tough decisions and get away with less scars, with the peace and love attitude with Paragon offers less consequences.  Also, there have been no true negative consequences for both Paragon and Renegade.  Its black and white, with no grey areas, and anyone spouting about realism hasn't factored in outcomes that take a turn for the worse. 

If Fable or Army of Two The Fortieth Day can produce actual realistic consequences for being good or evil, and actually show you that not everything works out with karma, the Bioware failed at realizing a few things. 

The Agenda to make it a Paragon oriented story with the freedom to do things with no negative outcomes for doing the right thing is Naive.  Likewise, sometimes removing something is the best available option, now and later. 

I'm a Paragade/Renegon player.  I'm doing options based on my reasoning and beliefs.  Had moral grey choices and neutral outcomes actually played into the series, I'd play differently.  Likewise, I'm doing these choices on what I believe would be, not because of metagaming knowing Bioware wouldn't take the time to upset a large group of players. 

Except Ashley, I flipped a coin on who would live and die.  The Geth crisis with Legion I ended up using his consensus of his run times as a talied vote.  

[eye basher]

i rather have choices backfire on me than just be an **** about because renegade are not renegades there just douchebags they do most thing simply because they can and there's nothing renegade about that it's just being a bully and that's not my style.