756 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

 Oh boy, this argument AGAIN.

Look, a Renegade kills a lot of people, and the dead can't make cameos, I'll even give reasons why there aren't replacements:

- Fist is dead
This one's easy.  He was just ONE crimelord among god knows how many, and one who was rapidly losing favor.  He betrayed the Shadow Broker for Christ's sake.  His death likely made very little if not any impact at all on crime

- Killing the Rachni Queen
Another easy one.  Very few people on Noveria even know there were Rachni there in the first place.  And all of them were in the facility that was being overrrun.  As far as I can tell, most of them didn't survive (evidenced by how a bunch of them turn on you since they're agents of Benezia and then all the rest of them disappear)

- Killing Balak
Sure, a terrorist died...but so did the hostages, so the situation is reported as such by the news.  That's really no surprise at all.  Why would you be congratulated for killing the terrorist when all the hostages died in the process.  Is that really a victory?

- Killing Shiala
You get an email from Elizabeth if I'm not mistaken, from Feros.  That's why you don't meet her on Illium.  Simple as that.

- Killing Rana Thanopis
Why would their be a replacement?  She was intended solely as a comedic cameo.  I mean really, the conversation you and her have is somewhat enlightening of Okeer's motives, but then he tells you in the next room over anyway, so the only reason to have her is to laugh at the "I'm going to run away now since stuff seems to blow up around you!" reference.

- Killing Gianna
If you enstate Lorik as the administrator you get an email acknowledging that decision, regardless of whether you're Paragon or Renegade, so this is a moot point period.

- The Council
Annnnd here's the big one.  Anderson/Udina states right off the bat the Human Council is busy as hell fixing things.  Which makes perfect sense.  They JUST took the position and have only held it for two years.  That's not much time to get acclimated to a posting that was originally held by the first 3 Councilors for decades or so.  And the only big change besides the overall mood of the Citadel and galactic politics is that you can only get reinstated as a Spectre if Anderson is in charge.

As for that one poster claiming Renegades can't get the best ending or get the achievement for getting all the War Assests, there's no evidence to suggest this.  And no the leak ISN'T evidence because we've got nothing to check it against.  It's a singular, isolated source with absolutely no means of verifying it's contents.  Besides, at least a few points in it are wrong already.

[Hunter of Legends]

Luc0s wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Paragon choices tend to forge alliances and friendships with other species,

No, not really. For every species you befriend you also alienate another.

Curing the krogan is not what the Council wants.

Restoring the rachni is not what the krogan want.

Empowering the geth is not what the quarians want.

Destroying the base is not what Cerberus wants.

Choices exist in a vaccuum though so nobody ever notices how shiftless and underhanded Paragon Shepard is.

It's called Diplomacy and compromise.

Something people on here seem to forget...

No, diplomacy means negotiating a solution. Nobody was there to negotiate when you freed the rachni queen. Nobody was there to negotiate when you rewrote the geth. Nobody was there to negotiate when you took the genophage cure data. Nobody was there to negotiate when you blew up that Collector base.

Paragon Shepard just does whatever the hell he wants. He does whatever he needs to do to feel good about himself. He never thinks twice about the possible consequences of his actions. And why should he? This is a BioWare game after all. BioWare wouldn't dare to punish the pure-Paragon Shepard for his completely irresponsible actions. 

Nobody was there to even explain to EITHER side wether the krogan should be spared.

Or that the Geth weren't all mindless reaper followers.

Or that the Rachni weren't monsters.

There is nothing to negotiate or explain if you simply do what the galaxy expects from you.

The krogan wouldn't mind if you kill the last rachni queen. In fact, they would think of you a hero (I'm quite sure they will).

The quarian wouldn't mind if you destroy the heretic geth. In fact, they would think you did a good job by destroying a big bunch of geth with one push of a button.


My Shepard does whatever seems logical. A pure-Paragon Shepard does whatever makes him feel good.


In my opinion, playing either side is incredibly dumb. A pure-paragon Shepard is a naive idealistic moron, but a pure-Renegade Shepard is a mindless, ruthless bastard.

The best thing you can do is mix it up and do whatever seems logical to your Shepard. That way you get the most realistic Shepard and (in my opinion) the most satisfying roleplaying experience.

But I've seen how people from this forum play. I've seen enough "what are your Shepard's decisions?" -threads to know that most of you are painfully idealistic 100% pure-Paragon players.


It doesn't ****** me off that a big bunch on BSN plays a painfully idealistic Paragon Shepard, oh no. What pisses me off is that you get away with it. There are no consequences for an idealistic paladin Paragon Shepard. It goes the other way too. So far, there are hardly any consequences for a ruthless bastard Renegade Shepard.


I would want to see players get punished for not thinking through their decisions.

For example: I want the player to be in big trouble if he/she saved the rachni queen AND cured the genophage. The krogan should be pissed off at that player and you just restored them back to their old numbers. This should have heavy consequences, possibly a new war between the rachni and the krogan.

I won't disagree with you. My most "realistic" playthrough is a renegon shepard with 100% renegade and 65% paragon. I however disagree that you're "playing" the sides. You are using diplomacy in ME3 to compromise...which is the "ideal" outcome.

I will be the first person to say paragon shep is a bit...dreamy and wide eyed- idealistic for me. But in my eyes that is far preferable to a murderous jackass renegade shepard that is no different than Saren.

[Hunter of Legends]

King Minos wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

King Minos wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

You still shouldn't kill Fist in cold blood.

It isn't cold blood if it's right after a fire fight (where he had everyone under his employ try to kill you).  You didn't just painstakingly plan his death ahead of time.  To kill in cold blood is to kill without being emotionally involved.  After a fire fight, you certainly aren't in a state of "cold blooded".

But you've calmed down and he surrendered to you.

Killing him like that is cold blooded.

And why should he get mercy? He sent Tali to die.

We don't know the full extent of his crimes but sending someone into a trap to be killed off so you can loot their corpse for information to save money, why should a man like him live?

Because it's the right thing to do "for a paragon" shepard.

In all honesty he should be put on trial not killed without one; that is just me however. I only have Fist alive on ONE playthrough of 10.

He still sent a innocent person to her death (obviously survived but still) without a care in the world, no remorse what so ever.

I never debated that he's an unfeeling greedy bastard.

He still doesn't deserve cold blooded death without a trial.

[saracen16]

The council had to be saved. They represent the hopes, dreams, and aspirations of the most powerful races in the Mass Effect universe. I don't see any other way of humanity establishing a more stable position in the galaxy, rising to power and not estranging themselves from the rest of the species in Citadel space. I thought at the time that if the council died and humanity supplanted them, the allegory of "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" applies. Better to keep a level head, methinks. Besides, I favor multiculturalism.

As for the Collector Base, why would I trust Cerberus, a known human supremacist and terrorist organization, with the technology? The Reapers are the A-bomb of the Mass Effect universe, and the technology to replicate them is too dangerous to be kept in the hands of any one species. Sure, having the base around will most likely result in the acquisition of valuable data that may help against the Reapers, but the fact that it is "an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal" (to quote Albert Einstein's view on technological progress) remains, and it is one less axe the universe can do without.

By choosing to ally itself with the Reapers, the machine devils that seek to devour all life, Cerberus has dug its own grave. I'll be glad to push it into the crypt and slam it shut.

Modifié par saracen16, 05 février 2012 - 06:44 .

[RiouHotaru]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why should the Council being dead make things harder, or the lack of a genophage cure?

Since when is curing the genophage desirable?

Since when are the rachni a force for good? (most especially at the time we make the decision)

Why is the Migrant Fleet being divided up a bad thing?

Legion I'll grant since Cerberus is bad in ME3, but at the time the choice was made it was a perfectly logical decision.

1) Because a new Council has to fill in for those who have been there for a long time, and it's difficult to fill those shoes when you're still new to the table

2) Because it is in fact slowly driving the Krogan to extinction, and because you'll want the Krogan's help in ME3

3) Because we're presented with new information that sheds a new light on the Rachni that we didn't know before.  Not to mention ME2 points out that the Queen's assertions of mind-control were correct.

4) Because "A house divided against itself cannot stand"

[Hunter of Legends]

The above post above this other post sounds a bit to...paragon happy.

Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 05 février 2012 - 06:44 .

[RiouHotaru]

saracen16 wrote...
As for the Collector Base, why would I trust Cerberus, a known human supremacist and terrorist organization, with the technology? The Reapers are the A-bomb of the Mass Effect universe, and the technology to replicate them is too dangerous to be kept in the hands of any one species. Sure, having the base around will most likely result in the acquisition of valuable data that may help against the Reapers, but the fact that it is "an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal" (to quote Albert Einstein's view on technological progress) remains, and it is one less axe the universe can do without.

Exactly.  I know Renegades scoff at the "trust" thing, but you don't understand how important trust is, especially in a situation where our life or livelihood depends on someone else watching your back.  Without trust, there cannot be mutual cooperation.  As is the case with ME2.  For the most part, the cooperation between Shepard and Cerberus is tenuous at best, held together ONLY by the fact Cerberus is the only one dealing with the Collectors.

[saracen16]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why should the Council being dead make things harder, or the lack of a genophage cure?

Since when is curing the genophage desirable?

Since when are the rachni a force for good? (most especially at the time we make the decision)

Why is the Migrant Fleet being divided up a bad thing?

Legion I'll grant since Cerberus is bad in ME3, but at the time the choice was made it was a perfectly logical decision.

1) Because a new Council has to fill in for those who have been there for a long time, and it's difficult to fill those shoes when you're still new to the table

2) Because it is in fact slowly driving the Krogan to extinction, and because you'll want the Krogan's help in ME3

3) Because we're presented with new information that sheds a new light on the Rachni that we didn't know before.  Not to mention ME2 points out that the Queen's assertions of mind-control were correct.

4) Because "A house divided against itself cannot stand"

Indeed. Humans shouldn't jump quickly and disrupt the already established political climate. There are real-world examples that serve as a grim reminder as to why regime change is not always a good thing: Iraq, for example.

[Heimdall]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I won't disagree with you. My most "realistic" playthrough is a renegon shepard with 100% renegade and 65% paragon. I however disagree that you're "playing" the sides. You are using diplomacy in ME3 to compromise...which is the "ideal" outcome.

I will be the first person to say paragon shep is a bit...dreamy and wide eyed- idealistic for me. But in my eyes that is far preferable to a murderous jackass renegade shepard that is no different than Saren.

I'm going to lend my support here.

My Shepard wouldn't have been nearly as pure paragon if the charm options hadn't been tied to paragon points. 

[Hunter of Legends]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I won't disagree with you. My most "realistic" playthrough is a renegon shepard with 100% renegade and 65% paragon. I however disagree that you're "playing" the sides. You are using diplomacy in ME3 to compromise...which is the "ideal" outcome.

I will be the first person to say paragon shep is a bit...dreamy and wide eyed- idealistic for me. But in my eyes that is far preferable to a murderous jackass renegade shepard that is no different than Saren.

I'm going to lend my support here.

My Shepard wouldn't have been nearly as pure paragon if the charm options hadn't been tied to paragon points. 

My shepard would be ruthless and get the job done but in ME2 he still comes off as too idealistic.

Damn shafted converstation lines...

[Hunter of Legends]

Luc0s wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Oh boy, this argument AGAIN.

Look, a Renegade kills a lot of people, and the dead can't make cameos, I'll even give reasons why there aren't replacements:

- Fist is dead
This one's easy.  He was just ONE crimelord among god knows how many, and one who was rapidly losing favor.  He betrayed the Shadow Broker for Christ's sake.  His death likely made very little if not any impact at all on crime

- Killing the Rachni Queen
Another easy one.  Very few people on Noveria even know there were Rachni there in the first place.  And all of them were in the facility that was being overrrun.  As far as I can tell, most of them didn't survive (evidenced by how a bunch of them turn on you since they're agents of Benezia and then all the rest of them disappear)

- Killing Balak
Sure, a terrorist died...but so did the hostages, so the situation is reported as such by the news.  That's really no surprise at all.  Why would you be congratulated for killing the terrorist when all the hostages died in the process.  Is that really a victory?

- Killing Shiala
You get an email from Elizabeth if I'm not mistaken, from Feros.  That's why you don't meet her on Illium.  Simple as that.

- Killing Rana Thanopis
Why would their be a replacement?  She was intended solely as a comedic cameo.  I mean really, the conversation you and her have is somewhat enlightening of Okeer's motives, but then he tells you in the next room over anyway, so the only reason to have her is to laugh at the "I'm going to run away now since stuff seems to blow up around you!" reference.

- Killing Gianna
If you enstate Lorik as the administrator you get an email acknowledging that decision, regardless of whether you're Paragon or Renegade, so this is a moot point period.

- The Council
Annnnd here's the big one.  Anderson/Udina states right off the bat the Human Council is busy as hell fixing things.  Which makes perfect sense.  They JUST took the position and have only held it for two years.  That's not much time to get acclimated to a posting that was originally held by the first 3 Councilors for decades or so.  And the only big change besides the overall mood of the Citadel and galactic politics is that you can only get reinstated as a Spectre if Anderson is in charge.

Your entire post is completely invalid. There is NO good reason why any of those above options couldn't have a little consequence or cameo.

I'll take apart your list and show you how you're wrong.


- First:

What Renegade gets: If you let Fist go (Paragon), you get a cameo in ME2. If you kill Fist (Renegade), you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: Instead of First as a cameo (Paragon), the Renegade Shepard could get one of Fist's thugs as a cameo. He'd tell you that the massacre at Chora's Den opened his eyes. After that, he left his gangster life behind him.


- Rachni Queen:

What Renegade gets: If you let the queen go (Paragon), you get a message from her in ME2. If you killed her (Renegade), you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: Instead of the rachni queen message (Paragon), the Renegade Shepard could have gotten a message from the krogan, telling you how happy they are and that they will assist you in the future.


- Balak:

What Renegade gets: If you let Balak go (Paragon), you get praise from the Terra Nova colonists. If you stopped Balak (Renegade), you get no praise at all.

What Renegade could have gotten: Since you stopped a super dangerous terrorist, Renegade Shepard should get lots of praise from the Terra Nova colonists and The Alliance. You (Renegade Shepard) made the right choice and stopped an incredibly dangerous terrorist.


- Shiala:

What Renegade gets: If you let Shiala live (Paragon), you get to see her again in ME2. If you killed her (Renegade), you get a stupid e-mail.

What Renegade could have gotten: Instead of a stupid e-mail, Renegade Shepard could have gotten another Colonist as a cameo, instead of Shiala.


- Rana Thanopis:

What Renegade gets: If you let Rana live (Paragon), yoou get to see her again in ME2. If you killed her (Renegade), you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: Rana could have a (twin) sister who heard what Renegade Shepard did in ME1. She could give her opinion on Shepards actions on Virmire and then get the heck out of there since she knows how Shepard operates.


- The Council:

What Renegade gets: If you saved the council (Paragon), you get an audience with them in ME2. If you sacrificed the council, you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: An audience with the new (human?) council. Shepard saved the Citadel and the entire galaxy. I can't imagine that the new (human) council doesn't want to speak with their hero and first (and ONLY) human Spectre, who just came back from the death.

No offense but some of this (or at least the vibe) reaks of renegade rewards, no cost.

[Dean_the_Young]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Oh boy, this argument AGAIN.

Look, a Renegade kills a lot of people, and the dead can't make cameos, I'll even give reasons why there aren't replacements:

Then, in the spirit of fairness, I'll give counter-proposals of replacements that could have been made.

- Fist is dead
This one's easy.  He was just ONE crimelord among god knows how many, and one who was rapidly losing favor.  He betrayed the Shadow Broker for Christ's sake.  His death likely made very little if not any impact at all on crime

Fist could well have friends or even family who might want to avenge him.

Imagine in Omega's Afterlife, a young man recognizes you.

"Hello. Hello. My name is Inigo Fist.. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

He gets shot quickly, leaving Shepard to go 'who was that clown?'

- Killing the Rachni Queen
Another easy one.  Very few people on Noveria even know there were Rachni there in the first place.  And all of them were in the facility that was being overrrun.  As far as I can tell, most of them didn't survive (evidenced by how a bunch of them turn on you since they're agents of Benezia and then all the rest of them disappear)

The existence of the Rachni in the labs is in the news in ME2. All it takes is to argue that one of those people who didn't die told a friend who saw the news or who knew someone who knew someone who knew, and you have all that you need. Since people on your own ship could mention it...

A Krogan is in the place of the Rachni Ambassador.
"Shepard. I heard from a friend that you were the one who killed the Rachni. On the honor of myu ancestors, thanks alot."

- Killing Balak
Sure, a terrorist died...but so did the hostages, so the situation is reported as such by the news.  That's really no surprise at all.  Why would you be congratulated for killing the terrorist when all the hostages died in the process.  Is that really a victory?

Yup. Particularly with the ease that a terrorist can do major damage later, whereas a captured/interrogated terrorist could provide new info. This is a case in which you the player could get positive and negative validation both ways.


Paragon: 
-The survivors have a celebration.
-Balak launches a FTL bombing like in CDN that wipes out a major city.

Renegade:
-The memorial for the victims.
-A Batarian spy ring is broken up before it could launch an attck.

- Killing Shiala
You get an email from Elizabeth if I'm not mistaken, from Feros.  That's why you don't meet her on Illium.  Simple as that.

And why couldn't we see her in person, if Shiala wasn't there? Why hold that email as an absolute, when we're discussing possible alternatives.

Elizabeth and Shiala both share many of the same motivations: a sense of guilt, good intentions to make up for past wrongs, a personal connection to the Thorian and the survivors. Shiala can claim to be a Asari on an Asari world: Elizabeth could claim to be familiar with corporate environment and red tape. Both can claim to have been smitten by Shepard's heroic stature.

- Killing Rana Thanopis
Why would their be a replacement?  She was intended solely as a comedic cameo.  I mean really, the conversation you and her have is somewhat enlightening of Okeer's motives, but then he tells you in the next room over anyway, so the only reason to have her is to laugh at the "I'm going to run away now since stuff seems to blow up around you!" reference.

Shiala contributes to the buildup with Okeer before we meet him, which is a part of the suspense-building process. Even besides the stuff that Okeer himself, a biased source, doesn't say, she's as much part of the buildup as, say, those second-hand rumors we get when introducing all the other characters. If no one mentioned what a mean sonofa**** Jack was before meeting her, the introduction would have a lot less meaning.

Thana could have easily been replaced by a mook scientists. Nothing about Rana even necessitated she be with Okeer in the first place.

- Killing Gianna
If you enstate Lorik as the administrator you get an email acknowledging that decision, regardless of whether you're Paragon or Renegade, so this is a moot point period.

Only if you consider a email equivalent to a side quest and personal dialogue.

Do you consider hard to read text equivalent to a quest and a character discussion?


Lorik could have been easily justified being on Illium as part of a business trip to resolve some corporate world issues. Rather than being the investigator himself, he could ask Shepard to investigate on his behalf.

- The Council
Annnnd here's the big one.  Anderson/Udina states right off the bat the Human Council is busy as hell fixing things.  Which makes perfect sense.  They JUST took the position and have only held it for two years.  That's not much time to get acclimated to a posting that was originally held by the first 3 Councilors for decades or so.  And the only big change besides the overall mood of the Citadel and galactic politics is that you can only get reinstated as a Spectre if Anderson is in charge.

Besides that we're asking for a five minute meeting with a person of galactic interest, not an hour, two years is more than enough time in politics to justify being able to have a five minute break. Even if it is hurried.

We could easily have been given cameo of a few impatient aliens not liking us and visibly wanting to be somewhere else.

[incinerator950]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Oh boy, this argument AGAIN.

Look, a Renegade kills a lot of people, and the dead can't make cameos, I'll even give reasons why there aren't replacements:

- Fist is dead
This one's easy.  He was just ONE crimelord among god knows how many, and one who was rapidly losing favor.  He betrayed the Shadow Broker for Christ's sake.  His death likely made very little if not any impact at all on crime

- Killing the Rachni Queen
Another easy one.  Very few people on Noveria even know there were Rachni there in the first place.  And all of them were in the facility that was being overrrun.  As far as I can tell, most of them didn't survive (evidenced by how a bunch of them turn on you since they're agents of Benezia and then all the rest of them disappear)

- Killing Balak
Sure, a terrorist died...but so did the hostages, so the situation is reported as such by the news.  That's really no surprise at all.  Why would you be congratulated for killing the terrorist when all the hostages died in the process.  Is that really a victory?

- Killing Shiala
You get an email from Elizabeth if I'm not mistaken, from Feros.  That's why you don't meet her on Illium.  Simple as that.

- Killing Rana Thanopis
Why would their be a replacement?  She was intended solely as a comedic cameo.  I mean really, the conversation you and her have is somewhat enlightening of Okeer's motives, but then he tells you in the next room over anyway, so the only reason to have her is to laugh at the "I'm going to run away now since stuff seems to blow up around you!" reference.

- Killing Gianna
If you enstate Lorik as the administrator you get an email acknowledging that decision, regardless of whether you're Paragon or Renegade, so this is a moot point period.

- The Council
Annnnd here's the big one.  Anderson/Udina states right off the bat the Human Council is busy as hell fixing things.  Which makes perfect sense.  They JUST took the position and have only held it for two years.  That's not much time to get acclimated to a posting that was originally held by the first 3 Councilors for decades or so.  And the only big change besides the overall mood of the Citadel and galactic politics is that you can only get reinstated as a Spectre if Anderson is in charge.

Your entire post is completely invalid. There is NO good reason why any of those above options couldn't have a little consequence or cameo.

I'll take apart your list and show you how you're wrong.


- First:

What Renegade gets: If you let Fist go (Paragon), you get a cameo in ME2. If you kill Fist (Renegade), you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: Instead of First as a cameo (Paragon), the Renegade Shepard could get one of Fist's thugs as a cameo. He'd tell you that the massacre at Chora's Den opened his eyes. After that, he left his gangster life behind him.


- Rachni Queen:

What Renegade gets: If you let the queen go (Paragon), you get a message from her in ME2. If you killed her (Renegade), you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: Instead of the rachni queen message (Paragon), the Renegade Shepard could have gotten a message from the krogan, telling you how happy they are and that they will assist you in the future.


- Balak:

What Renegade gets: If you let Balak go (Paragon), you get praise from the Terra Nova colonists. If you stopped Balak (Renegade), you get no praise at all.

What Renegade could have gotten: Since you stopped a super dangerous terrorist, Renegade Shepard should get lots of praise from the Terra Nova colonists and The Alliance. You (Renegade Shepard) made the right choice and stopped an incredibly dangerous terrorist.


- Shiala:

What Renegade gets: If you let Shiala live (Paragon), you get to see her again in ME2. If you killed her (Renegade), you get a stupid e-mail.

What Renegade could have gotten: Instead of a stupid e-mail, Renegade Shepard could have gotten another Colonist as a cameo, instead of Shiala.


- Rana Thanopis:

What Renegade gets: If you let Rana live (Paragon), yoou get to see her again in ME2. If you killed her (Renegade), you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: Rana could have a (twin) sister who heard what Renegade Shepard did in ME1. She could give her opinion on Shepards actions on Virmire and then get the heck out of there since she knows how Shepard operates.


- The Council:

What Renegade gets: If you saved the council (Paragon), you get an audience with them in ME2. If you sacrificed the council, you get NOTHING.

What Renegade could have gotten: An audience with the new (human?) council. Shepard saved the Citadel and the entire galaxy. I can't imagine that the new (human) council doesn't want to speak with their hero and first (and ONLY) human Spectre, who just came back from the death.

No offense but some of this (or at least the vibe) reaks of renegade rewards, no cost.

It would be just like the Paragon rewards.  No cost, good endings. 

[DJBare]

RiouHotaru wrote...


- Killing Rana Thanopis
Why would their be a replacement?  She was intended solely as a comedic cameo.  I mean really, the conversation you and her have is somewhat enlightening of Okeer's motives, but then he tells you in the next room over anyway, so the only reason to have her is to laugh at the "I'm going to run away now since stuff seems to blow up around you!" reference.

You also get a warning from one of your squad mates about how that's gonna come back and bite you in the arse, that does not seem like part of the comedic cameo to me, in fact reading through this thread, I'm beginning to feel that a mixture of saving her and the rachni queen could turn out to be the bite.

[Hunter of Legends]

Luc0s wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

No offense but some of this (or at least the vibe) reaks of renegade rewards, no cost.

Yes, I want the Renegade rewards to be EQUAL to the Paragon rewards. I just want Renegades to get an equal amount of footage, gameplay and cameos as the Paragons.

My examples above about what Renegades could have gotten (instead of nothing), are just hasty examples I came up with on the spot. I'm sure you could come up with something better. But at least I made my point clear.

Perhaps.

Some of them reak of bad fanwriting though but I agree. Better writing would be needed 

Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 05 février 2012 - 07:30 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The Rachni Queen? No chance, given Bioware's history. Mercy on this scale is always rewarded.


Rana? While there's foreshadowing that she might turn around to bite you, she is one of the least credible candidates for it. Besides that there's no option to kill her a second time, there's nothing resembling a personal vendetta (how dare you spare me!), nor much reason for her to seek one out. She's not a credible indoctrination candidate, or particularly malicious or have much basis for scheming at this point.

If sparing her does turn out to be the bad thing in ME3, it certainly won't be a logical extension of anything but squadmate suspicion.

[Hunter of Legends]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Rachni Queen? No chance, given Bioware's history. Mercy on this scale is always rewarded.

Not so much this time thankfully.

Any more would be spoilers.

[RiouHotaru]

 Well, since there's two people offering counter-points, I'll just counter-counter-point back at the proposals in general

- Fist
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for some random thug to appear.  It's been 2 years, how much of Fist's "organization" would exist after this death?  They'd either have been absorbed by other crime groups or just faded away.

Rachni Queen
I saw nor heard nothing that stated the Rachni were discovered on Noveria.  If you save the queen you hear news about Rachni SHIPS being seen in space, but nothing about Noveria.  Again, there's no one left who even knows what happened, far as I can tell.

Balak
Uhhh, no, he wouldn't go on to blow up anything else.  Remember what Shepard says at the end of Bring Down The Sky if you let Balak go?  People know who he is, know his face, and he won't have any support or backing from anyone.  So even if he wanted to strike again (which he doesn't over the 2 years Shepard is gone) he'd have no support or backing from anyone to do so.

Shiala
Elizabeth sends you the email regardless of what happens to Shiala I believe (or was it Elizabeth's daughter?  I can't remember).  Regardless, it's clear they're still busy rebuilding on Feros, which is why the colonist is generic.

Rana Thanopois
If we're in agreement that her cameo doesn't serve much purpose (I believe one of you stated it's a bit odd to find her there) then her presence or lackthereof doesn't do much besides build up some suspense for Okeer.  Otherwise she feels like a shout-out to Virmire and the fact you let her live (If you let her live).  I've never done a run where I killed her, I assume the room is just empty?

The Council
So you would've perferred a 5 minute conversation with a generic, no-name human Council member?  Because I doubt Bioware has any intention of making characters specifically to represent the replaced Council.  I fully expect that, if the Human Council appears in ME3, they won't have names.  Just like how in ME1 the subtitles just said "Turian Councilor", "Asari Councilor", and "Salarian Councilor".

[Hunter of Legends]

Luc0s wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

No offense but some of this (or at least the vibe) reaks of renegade rewards, no cost.

Yes, I want the Renegade rewards to be EQUAL to the Paragon rewards. I just want Renegades to get an equal amount of footage, gameplay and cameos as the Paragons.

My examples above about what Renegades could have gotten (instead of nothing), are just hasty examples I came up with on the spot. I'm sure you could come up with something better. But at least I made my point clear.

Perhaps.

Some of them reak of bad fanwriting though but I agree. Better writing would be needed 

Fan writing? Whatever. I'm not a Renegade fan.

Besides, some of BioWare's story arcs reak of bad fanwriting too, and they are (supposed to be) proffesional writers. So yeah, go figure.

For the most part they write their stories well though.

[andy6915]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The existence of the Rachni in the labs is in the news in ME2. All it takes is to argue that one of those people who didn't
die told a friend who saw the news or who knew someone who knew someone
who knew, and you have all that you need. Since people on your own ship
could mention it...

Can you provide proof? I have played ME2 with the Rachni queen alive several times, and have made certain to listen to every single news report in the game, both types (the normal ones, and the ones by Emily Wong), and even go back every couple of story worlds just to listen for NEW reports. And I never, NEVER heard that news report, making me highly doubtful of this.