756 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

Last Vizard wrote...

How does Balak being on some list make the galaxy any safer? did the Alliance see his ship and crew flying over to the Asteroid and reacted like "hey steve, any of these guys on the "list"?"  Sure the Alliance will have agents looking for him now that he was stoped this time however once he returns to the terminus he is safe again and free to train more like him.

Please excuse me for repeating myself, but I wonder how it would have affected your decision if your wife/husband/sister/brother were among those hostages?

[BlueMagitek]

DJBare wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

How does Balak being on some list make the galaxy any safer? did the Alliance see his ship and crew flying over to the Asteroid and reacted like "hey steve, any of these guys on the "list"?"  Sure the Alliance will have agents looking for him now that he was stoped this time however once he returns to the terminus he is safe again and free to train more like him.

Please excuse me for repeating myself, but I wonder how it would have affected your decision if your wife/husband/sister/brother were among those hostages?

Considering that one of the hostages did sacrifice her brother to stop Balak, you really need to stop the appeal to emotion; it's typically just a fallback fallacy to try and disturb another person's reasoning process.

[ddv.rsa]

DJBare wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

How does Balak being on some list make the galaxy any safer? did the Alliance see his ship and crew flying over to the Asteroid and reacted like "hey steve, any of these guys on the "list"?"  Sure the Alliance will have agents looking for him now that he was stoped this time however once he returns to the terminus he is safe again and free to train more like him.

Please excuse me for repeating myself, but I wonder how it would have affected your decision if your wife/husband/sister/brother were among those hostages?

The question wasn't addressed to me, but obviously I would then be a lot more personally involved and do everything possible to save them. But if one does not have that kind of involvement (which a police officer / soldier / spectre shouldn't) then it is better to go with the solution that will save the most lives. In this case killing Balak is the safest thing to do.

[Collider]

Better that 3 people (one of whom sacrifices her brother to stop Balak as BlueMagitek mentioned) die than a mass murderer go free to try again.

[Last Vizard]

DJBare wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

How does Balak being on some list make the galaxy any safer? did the Alliance see his ship and crew flying over to the Asteroid and reacted like "hey steve, any of these guys on the "list"?"  Sure the Alliance will have agents looking for him now that he was stoped this time however once he returns to the terminus he is safe again and free to train more like him.

Please excuse me for repeating myself, but I wonder how it would have affected your decision if your wife/husband/sister/brother were among those hostages?

I could never really know because I've never been in that situation, example: police aren't supposed to work cases that they are emotionally involved in.  The right thing to do is to stop Balak at all costs, they would die however I've saved more lives... later I can be tempted with suicide or emotionally destroyed for several years/rest of life but that wouldn't take away from it being the "right" choice.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 06 février 2012 - 06:43 .

[ddv.rsa]

Last Vizard wrote...

I could never really know because I've never been in that situation, example: police aren't supposed to work cases that they are emotionally involved in.  The right thing to do is to stop Balak at all costs, they would die however I've saved more lives... later I can be tempted with suicide or emotionally destroyed for several years/rest of life but that wouldn't take away from it being the "right" choice.

Ironically letting Balak go leads to a much more desirable outcome in ME3.

[DJBare]

ddv.rsa wrote...

The question wasn't addressed to me, but obviously I would then be a lot more personally involved and do everything possible to save them. But if one does not have that kind of involvement (which a police officer / soldier / spectre shouldn't) then it is better to go with the solution that will save the most lives. In this case killing Balak is the safest thing to do.

Somehow I don't think the families of those hostages would see it the same way, and that closes my point.

[Collider]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

I could never really know because I've never been in that situation, example: police aren't supposed to work cases that they are emotionally involved in.  The right thing to do is to stop Balak at all costs, they would die however I've saved more lives... later I can be tempted with suicide or emotionally destroyed for several years/rest of life but that wouldn't take away from it being the "right" choice.

Ironically letting Balak go leads to a much more desirable outcome in ME3.

Figures Bioware would do that.

[Last Vizard]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

I could never really know because I've never been in that situation, example: police aren't supposed to work cases that they are emotionally involved in.  The right thing to do is to stop Balak at all costs, they would die however I've saved more lives... later I can be tempted with suicide or emotionally destroyed for several years/rest of life but that wouldn't take away from it being the "right" choice.

Ironically letting Balak go leads to a much more desirable outcome in ME3.

I feared as much, its only desirable though because its a game... same as tv shows where people have changes of heart when they speak with someone really really paragon.

[DJBare]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Considering that one of the hostages did sacrifice her brother to stop Balak, you really need to stop the appeal to emotion; it's typically just a fallback fallacy to try and disturb another person's reasoning process.

She sacrificed her brother to help Shepard, not stop Balak.

[BlueMagitek]

DJBare wrote...

Somehow I don't think the families of those hostages would see it the same way, and that closes my point.

Which is exactly why the brother cursed his sister's name as he died so she coul-- oh wait, no, that didn't happen.

Considering that the hostages died in what was an attempt to kill everyone on the planet, which includes these families, I think they would understand.  Oh, yes, they might be angry, you can't really blame them for that.  Anger is a natural emotion to feel when a family member is taken from you, but Balak would gladly have killed millions of families without a shred of remorse.

DJBare wrote...

She sacrificed her brother to help Shepard, not stop Balak.

The two are one in the same.  Stop the terrorist.

[DJBare]

BlueMagitek wrote...

The two are one in the same.  Stop the terrorist.

Fine, in my next vote, I want a leadership that sanctions blowing up a bank with terrorists and hostages, can't let those terrorist get away.

[BlueMagitek]

DJBare wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

The two are one in the same.  Stop the terrorist.

Fine, in my next vote, I want a leadership that sanctions blowing up a bank with terrorists and hostages, can't let those terrorist get away.

Vasir already tried that; that terrorist Liara got away though.

[Last Vizard]

DJBare wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

The two are one in the same.  Stop the terrorist.

Fine, in my next vote, I want a leadership that sanctions blowing up a bank with terrorists and hostages, can't let those terrorist get away.

Thats taking his point to the extreme, I know what your saying but a terrorist killing millions and the cost to stop him is only 12 (?) people... thats very different than blowing up a bank to stop some robbers.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 06 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[incinerator950]

DJBare wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

How does Balak being on some list make the galaxy any safer? did the Alliance see his ship and crew flying over to the Asteroid and reacted like "hey steve, any of these guys on the "list"?"  Sure the Alliance will have agents looking for him now that he was stoped this time however once he returns to the terminus he is safe again and free to train more like him.

Please excuse me for repeating myself, but I wonder how it would have affected your decision if your wife/husband/sister/brother were among those hostages?

How would you react to having a civilian of signifcance?  You've used this statement to throw a wedge at people, yet you've never replied to it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Bleachrude wrote...

Again, I think being a renegade makes more sense in a fantasy setting rather than the high tech setting of ME.

I mean, think of our world today and notice how easily being a jerk gets broadcasted across a wide spectrum of people (how's that marketing guy who picked a fight with penny arcade doing for example?).

In a scifi setting, I've always had this problem since it is much more likely that everyone would know of you and recognize you and thus want nothing to do with you. The only people willing to work with you should be people that qute frankly, would sell you out if they got a better offer.

Eh? And in which setting does a naive optimist work?

[WizenSlinky0]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Eh? And in which setting does a naive optimist work?

Every setting requires the optimists and the pragmatists. Should we all kill our morals we would not only be bankrupt morally but on the route to self-extinction at best, or being no better than survivalist animals at worst.

Without pragmatists to add balance we'd (myself included) bake the reapers cupcakes to negotiate with.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 06 février 2012 - 07:05 .

[incinerator950]

Can I have a cupcake?

[Last Vizard]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Eh? And in which setting does a naive optimist work?

Every setting requires the optimists and the pragmatists. Should we all kill our morals we would not only be bankrupt morally but on the route to self-extinction at best, or being no better than survivalist animals at worst.

Without pragmatists to add balance we'd (myself included) bake the reapers cupcakes to negotiate with.

I'd rather we die then bend to alien will.

[DJBare]

Last Vizard wrote...

Thats taking his point to the extreme, I know what your saying but a terrorist killing millions and the cost to stop him is only 12 (?) people... thats very different than blowing up a bank to stop some robbers.

Kill Balak and there are plenty more to take his place, of course you could ride around the galaxy killing other innocents to get at those replacements.

[incinerator950]

DJBare wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Thats taking his point to the extreme, I know what your saying but a terrorist killing millions and the cost to stop him is only 12 (?) people... thats very different than blowing up a bank to stop some robbers.

Kill Balak and there are plenty more to take his place, of course you could ride around the galaxy killing other innocents to get at those replacements.

I thought it was less then ten, if you count the bodies outside, and then only find four or five corpses in the room.  

If you don't kill Balak, you then have plenty more to take his place, plus the original problem.  What's the difference Bare?

[Hunter of Legends]

You know what I find funny.

Renegades complained about the whole Rachni Queen ordeal in ME3 yet they would still **** if by their actions there were no Rachni in ME3.

So basically Bioware can't win.

[incinerator950]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

You know what I find funny.

Renegades complained about the whole Rachni Queen ordeal in ME3 yet they would still **** if by their actions there were no Rachni in ME3.

So basically Bioware can't win.

You're just figuring this out now?  Its why I've been stating for two years, don't cave in to the mass complaint appeal. 

[DJBare]

incinerator950 wrote...
How would you react to having a civilian of signifcance?  You've used this statement to throw a wedge at people, yet you've never replied to it.

It would not matter whether I was intimate with the hostages or not, I'd still let Balak go.

[Femlob]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

So basically Bioware can't win.

This is the BSN - of course they can't win.