756 réponses à ce sujet

[incinerator950]

I'm not interested in pleasing the VS anyway, if the Base actually generates War Assets, I'm happy.

That is one thing I wouldn't mind being spoiled for me, so far one document stated it wasn't going to screw people over one way or another.

[Hunter of Legends]

DPSSOC wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Two things we already know (non-leak):

Cerberus = enemy in ME3 regardless of what your Colllector Base decision was. Collector Base decision puts VS at ends with you.  Some endings confirmed to be harder to get if you chose the Renegade "Keep the Base" option.

If Council died, the new Council (human-led... if not all-human) will be reluctant to help save humanity/the Earth (which makes no sense).


Those are the facts... The Paragon Favoritism still goes strong... even into ME3.

All of that makes perfect sense to me.

Maybe you just don't understand how trust and grudges work.

Ok the human dominated Council refusing to take action to save their own species makes sense to you?

A human council not trusting Shepard who has proven willing to kill the council before makes perfect sense.

Which would justify hesitant or meager assistance (don't want to trust Shepard with the bulk of their forces), but certainly not, "Nah we don't wanna help."

If you actually paid attention in ME2 the council still didn't listen to humans.

[incinerator950]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Two things we already know (non-leak):

Cerberus = enemy in ME3 regardless of what your Colllector Base decision was. Collector Base decision puts VS at ends with you.  Some endings confirmed to be harder to get if you chose the Renegade "Keep the Base" option.

If Council died, the new Council (human-led... if not all-human) will be reluctant to help save humanity/the Earth (which makes no sense).


Those are the facts... The Paragon Favoritism still goes strong... even into ME3.

All of that makes perfect sense to me.

Maybe you just don't understand how trust and grudges work.

Ok the human dominated Council refusing to take action to save their own species makes sense to you?

A human council not trusting Shepard who has proven willing to kill the council before makes perfect sense.

Which would justify hesitant or meager assistance (don't want to trust Shepard with the bulk of their forces), but certainly not, "Nah we don't wanna help."

If you actually paid attention in ME2 the council still didn't listen to humans.

Not entirely true, but there is a lot of white washing.  Mainly because everyone thinks the Alliance is in the Terminus systems when its actually not, and everyone cries when such and such vanishes, gets kidnapped, enslaved, or dies.  
Alcohol needs to wear off soon.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Dave is right, but idiots cannot understand his true comment.

Default ME1 is more renegade and somewhat a less successful. Default ME2 is also going to be also dominated with major renegade decisions (might have few paragon though), so it will be more difficult and less beneficial for someone who makes a ME3 start (without importing) or is RENEGADE personally.
In my last playthrough, Paragon bar was almost equal to Renegade. Despite I made my major decisions Renegade (but rewriting the Geth). So I should expect a high casualtiy run in ME3 it seems.

Revival

[DPSSOC]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
If you actually paid attention in ME2 the council still didn't listen to humans.

Yeah I noticed, but I've had that rant already.  The stupidity behind, "Human led Council" or "Human Dominated Council" when it's clear the humans aren't leading or dominating anything.  They may be shouting the loudest but clearly nobody's listening.

[Heimdall]

DPSSOC wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
If you actually paid attention in ME2 the council still didn't listen to humans.

Yeah I noticed, but I've had that rant already.  The stupidity behind, "Human led Council" or "Human Dominated Council" when it's clear the humans aren't leading or dominating anything.  They may be shouting the loudest but clearly nobody's listening.

No, their just not really listening to Shepard and have little desire to interfere with colonies in the Terminus systems outside Alliance and Council juristiction.

[Hunter of Legends]

DPSSOC wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
If you actually paid attention in ME2 the council still didn't listen to humans.

Yeah I noticed, but I've had that rant already.  The stupidity behind, "Human led Council" or "Human Dominated Council" when it's clear the humans aren't leading or dominating anything.  They may be shouting the loudest but clearly nobody's listening.

Paragon council will at least listen to humanity.

Renegade couldn't care less.

[GodWood]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Paragon council will at least listen to humanity.

Renegade couldn't care less.

You base this on?

[incinerator950]

GodWood wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Paragon council will at least listen to humanity.

Renegade couldn't care less.

You base this on?

Normal Council will listen to everyone.  Doesn't mean it will do anything important.

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Paragon council will at least listen to humanity.

Renegade couldn't care less.

You base this on?

Things said in-game and the general attitude of everyone in the game towards humanity.

How do you not notice these things? I'm going through my first full renegade and it feels like an entirely different narrative and story.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Femlob wrote...
Oh, I'll put up with it. If nothing else, it gives me something to do when I don't feel like playing a game.

Thing is, of course, that come March 9th (or 6th, for those of you in North America) I won't be the one booting up my console looking for things to hate on and complain about - I'll just be enjoying the game for what it is.

I don't use a console...

And I'm gonna be enjoying myself enough...kinda like poeple enjoy incredibly campy, badly written, badly acted movies.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rip504 wrote...

Why seek out revenge on someone who has been dead for 2 years?
During the events of ME2,the galaxy only hears a rumor that Shepard may be alive.
In a storied plot,alot of what yall claim does not make sense.

Nor does it makes sense for hte all the people Pagaron Shep eouncoutnered congregate all at the same tiem and same place.

How about we remove hte Rachnii ambasador? Or a few other characters from the paragon path? Would you like it? No, you wouldn't.

So your whole long rant about how nothing is wrong and we all got what we deserved and all is equal and fair is utter crap.

[Lotion Soronarr]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
1.) It's an acceptable risk-

In many ways the Renegade is performing in the way they feel provides the best benefit or practicality. Vindicated or no the renegade personality is not looking for friends or allies, but in getting the job done regardless of the cost. I've said it before but people are emotional creatures. This has been taken into account in the game. People are not going to "thank" you for what you consider the hard choices. They are going to *despise* you. Emotions will come out ahead of logic, 9 times out of 10.

Shepard? Forget Shepard, what are the players looking for?

And no one is looking for thanks. They are looking for a REACTION OF ANY KIND. Not a void.

2.) Developer Bias-
Should it happen? In theory, not really. But if bioware decides that the paragon route should without a doubt prove the "correct" path it is not really our place to say they are wrong.

Yeah well, I disagree. They are wrong. And it is my place to say it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Lord Aesir wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Ok the human dominated Council refusing to take action to save their own species makes sense to you?

A human council not trusting Shepard who has proven willing to kill the council before makes perfect sense.

The same Sheppard that save the galaxy AND made the human-council possible in the firrst place?
The same Shepard that saved the human colonies?

No..it makes no sense.

[SirEtchwart]

As a Paragon, I feel like I should be completely punished if keeping the base ended up being the right decision. I made a choice based on my principles. I don't want my hand to be held afterwards.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Two things we already know (non-leak):

Cerberus = enemy in ME3 regardless of what your Colllector Base decision was. Collector Base decision puts VS at ends with you.  Some endings confirmed to be harder to get if you chose the Renegade "Keep the Base" option.

If Council died, the new Council (human-led... if not all-human) will be reluctant to help save humanity/the Earth (which makes no sense).


Those are the facts... The Paragon Favoritism still goes strong... even into ME3.

All of that makes perfect sense to me.

Maybe you just don't understand how trust and grudges work.

Considering the Reapers are here, if they haven't figured out the reason for focusing on Sovereign yet... then they're just being silly.  "Trust and Grudges" has nothing to do with anything when the Council is human-led (if not all-human). 

Also, most people seem to completely ignore the rest of the Citadel defense forces that were on-hand to save the Council that day (no one called in saying they couldn't help... and no one tried to help, almost as if no one else wanted that old Council to live).


Cerberus being an enemy right out the gate is also something that doesn't makes sense if you kept the base.  You have to manually fill in gaps for that to make any sort of sense (gaps that weren't filled by the game).  The Paragon ending didn't have that problem.


How about someone just tell me what the up-side to the Renegade Council decision was?  (Based on everything we know in Mass Effect 2 and non-leak details regarding Mass Effect 3).  Heck, tell me the up-side to the Collector base decision (based on the non-leak details)... all compared to the Paragon alternative.  There is none.

It sounds like we're moving away from whether Paragon favoritism exists... to trying to justify why it's there.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 07 février 2012 - 02:13 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
2.) Developer Bias-
Should it happen? In theory, not really. But if bioware decides that the paragon route should without a doubt prove the "correct" path it is not really our place to say they are wrong.

Yeah well, I disagree. They are wrong. And it is my place to say it.

They are wrong because it contradicts their marketed intentions for the series.  There is no "tough choices" when you know the Paragon choices will yield the best results.  Essentially it's not even a choice anymore... it's the "blue/best outcome button."

Out of all the choices to choose from (neutral choices included), the blue choice exclusively... and consistently... gets the job done with the least cost and the most content/story continuity/positive plot benefits.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 07 février 2012 - 02:32 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
It sounds like we're moving away from whether Paragon favoritism exists... to trying to justify why it's there.

Because most of the decisions and repercussions CAN be justified. I won't deny there is a more heavy favor towards paragon in ME3 but that can also be semi-justified in what you need to do in ME3.

ME1 and ME2 allowed both playstyles to be valid and 100% justified IMHO. ME3 had to swing one way or the other; either bring the galaxy apart or destroy it outright.

[Hunter of Legends]

jreezy wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
If you actually paid attention in ME2 the council still didn't listen to humans.

Yeah I noticed, but I've had that rant already.  The stupidity behind, "Human led Council" or "Human Dominated Council" when it's clear the humans aren't leading or dominating anything.  They may be shouting the loudest but clearly nobody's listening.

Paragon council will at least listen to humanity.

Paragon council?

Infering the saved council...not one that actually does anything

[RiouHotaru]

You then read the script referring to the Renegade playthrough from ME1 and ME2 as "failure" and storm out of the room.

 And then you stop halfway out of the room and realize that this is Bioware, they have to make it possible for both sides to achieve an optimal ending, and that the leak should be taken with a grain of salt rather than as hard factual proof.

Especially because there's nothing to check it against just yet.

[CerberusSoldier]

we all know Bioware loves the paragons

[WizenSlinky0]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
2.) Developer Bias-
Should it happen? In theory, not really. But if bioware decides that the paragon route should without a doubt prove the "correct" path it is not really our place to say they are wrong.

Yeah well, I disagree. They are wrong. And it is my place to say it.

They are wrong because it contradicts their marketed intentions for the series.  There is no "tough choices" when you know the Paragon choices will yield the best results.  Essentially it's not even a choice anymore... it's the "blue/best outcome button."

Out of all the choices to choose from (neutral choices included), the blue choice exclusively... and consistently... gets the job done with the least cost and the most content/story continuity/positive plot benefits.

I already stated in the original context that the major problem was they led people to believe both sides would recieve the same treatment.

However, it is impossible to fault Bioware for sinking their beliefs into their game. If every single paragon decision blew up in my face in ridiculously explosive fashion, I still would not be able to complain. Would I enjoy the game anywhere near as much? Most definitely not.

But really, how anyone can claim to be right about what the game *should* do when they have no hand in the development...is pretty foolish.

Their biggest mistake was their overzealous marketing. Because they definitely led players to believe both paths had at least some merit to following.

[RiouHotaru]

Because they do. Both in ME1 and ME2 Paragon and Renegade players can achieve an optimal outcome.

So both paths DO have at least some merit.

[WaffleCrab]

I mix paragon and renegade depending on the hilarity of the situation it leads to, comes from or the comments i get from my squad mates. I usually end up with full paragon and about 1½-2 bars renegade in ME2.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 07 février 2012 - 07:50 .