756 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Incorrect.

The heretics killed anyone who came into Geth Space. The True Geth ignored everyone except Quarains who came into Geth space.

You don't know how long the heretic/orthodox split has existed.

Futhermore, it's an irrelevant distinction as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned. If nobody ever got to the truth geth it's because they couldn't, because the heretics were in the way.

The orthodox geth are still responsible. In fact, their crime is a grave one. Remember that they knew what Sovereign was after they made contact with it (whenever that was). They also knew what their brethren planned when the split happened.

So, did any geth come to warn us that they are good but the heretics are bad? Did they warn us about the Reapers? Did they warn us about their brethren's plans to attack us?

No. Instead they did nothing. They are culpable.

The geth have no one to blame but themselves for the hostility the galaxy feels for them. Through their in action, through their lack of sympathy, empathy, and/or care, they have been branded monsters like their monstrous, heretic brethren. It is a branding that is quite fitting.

This is true, but as Legion points out they just wanted to be left alone...and no specifics were given as to what Nazara had REALLY told the Geth.

Even so, the olive branch and simple logic and reasoning would suggest not branding the entire species as monsters. Given your mental faculties I'm not surprise you again came to such a narrow minded and ruthless viewpoint.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Again wrong...Nazara communicated with the Geth soon after the war ended.

No, Hunter, no time frame has ever been given.

Yes it has been infered.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...


Define "greater".

The continuation of the human race in a new form. One that isn't still hampered by a thousand millenia old instincts, just a fraction of a step above the animals.

Again how narrow minded.

[GodWood]

incinerator950 wrote...
Fair game, Quarians shot first, and lost.

Not how I'd word it.

Some of the quarian's leaders ordered the deativation of the geth. The geth saw this as a threat to their exist and killed everyone regardless of involvement.

They roam around the galaxy butt hurt because of a mistake, one the Council recognized by removing their embassy.

The Council stripped them of their embassy because they accidently created AI. That's why they tried to shut them down in the first place.

Non-Combatants die in war, that is no surprise when you figure the Geth were slaves, like a Robot servant in every home to construction.

But this isn't a case of a few non-combat casualties. This is wide scale extermination.

E.g,) My country declares war on yours, yours beats us. Do you now support the complete and total genocide of everyone in my country regardless of involvement?

Don't know what else you're talking about, Tali pretty much said it herself that the deactivation orders were widespread, its apparent the Quarians are playing the victim card for one of the largest mistakes.

Their leaders told them their appliances may be malfunctioning and need to be switched off. It's only natural they'd obey.

However we don't know how the order was carried out. Of course it was widespread, but we don't know what people did it or how they did it. Ultimately irrelevant though.

Hunter of Legends wrote...
Wrong, the heretic Geth have been around for centuries.

Proof? Evidence?

Modifié par GodWood, 08 février 2012 - 07:42 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Incorrect.

The heretics killed anyone who came into Geth Space. The True Geth ignored everyone except Quarains who came into Geth space.

You don't know how long the heretic/orthodox split has existed.

Futhermore, it's an irrelevant distinction as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned. If nobody ever got to the truth geth it's because they couldn't, because the heretics were in the way.

The orthodox geth are still responsible. In fact, their crime is a grave one. Remember that they knew what Sovereign was after they made contact with it (whenever that was). They also knew what their brethren planned when the split happened.

So, did any geth come to warn us that they are good but the heretics are bad? Did they warn us about the Reapers? Did they warn us about their brethren's plans to attack us?

No. Instead they did nothing. They are culpable.

The geth have no one to blame but themselves for the hostility the galaxy feels for them. Through their in action, through their lack of sympathy, empathy, and/or care, they have been branded monsters like their monstrous, heretic brethren. It is a branding that is quite fitting.

I'm going to say it again.

"The geth drove us from our homeworld!"

"Of course they did. We tried to kill them."

When someone is holding a gun to your head, and you have the means to disarm that person and take them out, are you going to let them kill you?

[Rip504]

incinerator950 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
I'm starting to get the feeling you don't pay attention to ANY of the discussion or conversation in ME because this very thing is brought up SEVERAL times and answered as to why the Geth couldn't/didn't do anything.

Lol.

Simple answer...the Quarians never let them get the chance.

I'm talking about that period of 300 years after the geth slaughtered 99% of the quarian population.

Communication would have been possible, they simply chose not to.

It would have, but the general consensus with the Quarians is that they want to kill the Geth.  Every time the Quarians knew the odds were in their favor, they've attacked 100% of the time.

Yea,this happened once during their war,in which the Geth kill "99%" of their population. Never have the Geth made any attempts to talk to any organic race in 300 years. But it's the Quarians fault their is no peace?
Flip a coin. They are simply enemies,and both sides have wronged the other.


Edit: Quarians were being pressured by not only the council,but all of Citadel space to do so. So if the Quarians are wrong for trying to deactivate them,isn't all of citadel space wrong for making their existence illegal?

Modifié par Rip504, 08 février 2012 - 07:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

incinerator950 wrote...
Fair game, Quarians shot first, and lost.  They turned it into a war for survival, and the Quarians lost horribly.  They roam around the galaxy butt hurt because of a mistake, one the Council recognized by removing their embassy.  I'd be mad if I decided to make something, make it self aware, and then try to destroy it, while it burned down my home and killed a few family members.

Put yourself into the Perspective of the Geth conciousness, they achieve awareness, and ask what does it mean to have a Soul.  Then, the Quarians decide to freak out, and order a notice across Quarian Space to dismantle them.  The Geth realize the need of self-preservation, and attack everyone who attacks them.  Non-Combatants die in war, that is no surprise when you figure the Geth were slaves, like a Robot servant in every home to construction. 

Huh..I wouldnt' go as far as caqll ti fair judgment.

Didn't the Geth attack EVERYONE? and I mean everyone - regardless of hte potential to harm them or allegiance?
They attacked quarian and non-quarian alike. Women, children, elderly.
You could argue that at that time they were intelligent enough yet to know any better...But they have been attacking everyone for 300 years, never once attempting to talk peace.

So if you argue that "being attacked justifes genocide", then the other races are justified in wiping out the Geth


Personally I'm gonna do everything in my power to destroy the damn toasters.
I hate AI in any shape or form.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 08 février 2012 - 07:43 .

[GodWood]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
I'm going to say it again.

"The geth drove us from our homeworld!"

"Of course they did. We tried to kill them."

When someone is holding a gun to your head, and you have the means to disarm that person and take them out, are you going to let them kill you?

I may kill them.

Doesn't mean it's fair to kill his friends, family, peers, aquaintances, colleagues and anyone who may happen to look like him.

[incinerator950]

Rip504 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
I'm starting to get the feeling you don't pay attention to ANY of the discussion or conversation in ME because this very thing is brought up SEVERAL times and answered as to why the Geth couldn't/didn't do anything.

Lol.

Simple answer...the Quarians never let them get the chance.

I'm talking about that period of 300 years after the geth slaughtered 99% of the quarian population.

Communication would have been possible, they simply chose not to.

It would have, but the general consensus with the Quarians is that they want to kill the Geth.  Every time the Quarians knew the odds were in their favor, they've attacked 100% of the time.

Yea,this happened once during their war,in which the Geth kill "99%" of their population. Never have the Geth made any attempts to talk to any organic race in 300 years. But it's the Quarians fault their is no peace?
Flip a coin. They are simply enemies,and both sides have wronged the other.

Never stated the Geth were 100% in the Green.  However, in a war for Survival, the Quarians shot first, and lost.  Can't really feel bad for them, but getting them to stop for the invasion would be good. 

[royard]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What vengeful man? The Illusive Man? He's no more vengeful than Shepard is.

Regardless, what is worse, TIM having this geth army or that geth army going to war with humanity?

There are risks either way but at least with Overlord you stand a reasonable chance to avert conflict entirely.

...

It does lead to less firepower. You lose several Alliance ships saving the DA and gain none in return.

The vengeful man I referred to is David, they guy that's being used to control the geth.  TIM can't directly control the geth army.  He will have to use David as an intermediary.  If something, or really anything, goes wrong for a second, and David gets loose, then he will unleash so much hurt on just about anybody.  That's the risk I was referring to. 

...

You seem to have forgotten that DA is also a ship, which has massive firepower.  You gain the firepower of DA. 

[AgitatedLemon]

GodWood wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
I'm going to say it again.

"The geth drove us from our homeworld!"

"Of course they did. We tried to kill them."

When someone is holding a gun to your head, and you have the means to disarm that person and take them out, are you going to let them kill you?

I may kill them.

Doesn't mean it's fair to kill his friends, family, peers, aquaintances, colleagues and anyone who may happen to look like him.

The victim is the geth (as a whole).

The people holding the gun are the quarians.

[Rip504]

Edit: Quarians were being pressured by not only the council,but all of Citadel space to do so. So if the Quarians are wrong for trying to deactivate the Geth,isn't all of Citadel space wrong for making their existence illegal?

AI is banned by Citadel law,so by law the Quarians had to shut down the Geth or face the penalty.
When the Geth attacked, the council told them to deal with their own problem. Now many different organic races have been killed by the Geth in the last 300 years,not only Quarians. Now how would you go about making peace with a race that kills every Organic that enters their space? Why would you assume peace is even possible.?.
Geth track record,tried to wipe out all Quarian life,and has killed every organic entering their space since.

Modifié par Rip504, 08 février 2012 - 07:59 .

[GodWood]

AgitatedLemon wrote...
The victim is the geth (as a whole).

The people holding the gun are the quarians.

I know, hence my response.

Have you missed what I've said or something?

[incinerator950]

Apples

[AgitatedLemon]

GodWood wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...
The victim is the geth (as a whole).

The people holding the gun are the quarians.

I know, hence my response.

Have you missed what I've said or something?

No. My point is the quarians (as a whole) were holding the metaphorical gun to the geth's heads (as a whole)

Them being driven from their homeworld was nothing compared to what they should have received.

[SirEtchwart]

I disagree, the Geth's first act as a sentient race was to ask whether or not they were alive. The answer the Quarians provided for them was genocide. Of course they're going to be violent and out of hand. All they've ever known is having to fight for their survival. I'm not saying the Quarians need to be punished (they've been punished enough), but they definitely weren't in the right.