756 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip504]

Collider wrote...

If you kill Fist on the Citadel,your Shepard should be in jail. Consider it an unfair advantage.
Paragons have to worry about Fist killing more innocents while obeying the law.

The fact of the matter is that neither kind of Shepard had to worry about anything. Fist is reduced to a pathetic shadow of his former self.

And yet renegades still get no content. Hence, the paragons have the unfair advantage here.

I don't really expect Bioware to give both rewards and consequences to renegade and paragon decisions alike. So far the track record is that paragon = good, renegade = bad or lack of content.

They have also said that in ME3, it's best to stick with your "principles," so I doubt that full paragons are suddenly going to face consequences that they can't nullify by spamming the paragon options.

You forgot to tell us what the Paragons unfair advantage is? Or did I miss it?
Shepard following the law,while the other breaks it?


Shepard is NOT a Spectre at that point in the game. (U.S. soldiers were sent to jail for pics. Imagine if they would have put a gun to their prisoners head and killed them. Do you honestly think they would not be in jail still?)
Fist was not innocent,but once Shepard disarmed Fist. Shepard had no right to kill Fist. Legally. Commanders do not have the right to judge a man's crimes and sentence him to execution. To the best of my knowledge.

[Unpleasant Implications]

Phaedon wrote...

Unpleasant Implications wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Unpleasant Implications wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Great let's bring the undead into Mass Effect to appease the whiney renegades.

Are you an idiot? They want to be NOTICED, not bring the dead back to life.

Someone doesn't understand sarcasm

You are an idiot. Using sarcasm on the internet is foolish.

So, uh, did you just use sarcasm to answer to your sarcasm of his sarcasm?

No, and thank you for proving my point. Sarcasm is useless because people can't tell whether or not you're using it.

[tetrisblock4x1]

It's interesting to note that a large majority of people play as the good guys, or paragon rather than renegade/evil/whatever. It's just a little fact I've derived over the years from message boards and internet polls. Something like a 80/20 split.

So with a split like that then Biowares favoritism seems quite proportional to the number of paragons as opposed to number of renegades. Not unfair.

[Collider]

The unfair advantage is that paragon players get content and renegade players don't.
I think your point about commanders having legality to execute people isn't very relevant when the game itself doesn't even mention it. It would be an unfair advantage if it was noted in game but Shepard got away with it - in other words, content.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Yeah but you exaggerate a lot so I'm okay with that.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Phaedon wrote...

Collider wrote...
Letting Balak and the rachni go may qualify.

The rachni? Really? It's pretty obvious that they were indoctrinated. Didn't you pay any attention to what Benezia said? It was rather logical.

As for Balak, it was less naive than it was too tough a decision for some.

Letting Balak go is naivety at it's best. 

There is absolutely no confirmation that the Rachni were indoctrinated. No matter how "obvious" you think it was, there was never any form of evidence. Making assumptions does not count as being logical.

[Barquiel]

Collider wrote...


Letting Balak and the rachni go may qualify.

Balak...maybe
My Shepard thought the Normandy is in orbit...and would destroy Balak's ship

the rachni queen
Well, they were indoctrinated and the queen might help against the reapers to avoid extinction once again (I also can't condemn someone to death for something they haven't done)

collector base
Yes, Shepards reasons are rather naive...I agree.

Modifié par Barquiel, 05 février 2012 - 01:32 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Phaedon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Paragon and Renegade decisions were at their best in Mass Effect 1 (with no sequel). There was give and take to the outcomes... some up sides and down sides, etc.

Uh...explain? ME2 was much better than ME1 when it comes to consequences of actions that happen in the same game anyway.

Some examples:

Rachni Queen:  
Renegade- Kill her, you get Council thanks and a potential galactic threat is put down but could've been an ally.  
Paragon- Spare her, you get questioned/admonished by the Council but an entire race is vowed to sing your praises.

Council Decision:  
Renegade- You lose a lot of lives but humanity also takes over the Council... to a truly "red" degree if you went full renegade on that decision.
Paragon-  You lose a lot of human lives but Humanity has the Council's respect and a seat at the Council.

[Collider]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

It's interesting to note that a large majority of people play as the good guys, or paragon rather than renegade/evil/whatever. It's just a little fact I've derived over the years from message boards and internet polls. Something like a 80/20 split.

So with a split like that then Biowares favoritism seems quite proportional to the number of paragons as opposed to number of renegades. Not unfair.

I think a good amount of players explore both alignments. I mean - that's a huge feature of Bioware games. Replaying the game to explore different options. You might have most players prefer paragon ultimately, but it doesn't mean that 80% of players truly have no interest in playing renegade.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

It's interesting to note that a large majority of people play as the good guys, or paragon rather than renegade/evil/whatever. It's just a little fact I've derived over the years from message boards and internet polls. Something like a 80/20 split.

So with a split like that then Biowares favoritism seems quite proportional to the number of paragons as opposed to number of renegades. Not unfair.

Incorrect... because "Paragon and Renegade" choices are the issue here.  The vast majority of players are Paragon in alignment... but hardly Paragon exclusive in their actual choices.

[Rip504]

Collider wrote...

The unfair advantage is that paragon players get content and renegade players don't.
I think your point about commanders having legality to execute people isn't very relevant when the game itself doesn't even mention it. It would be an unfair advantage if it was noted in game but Shepard got away with it - in other words, content.

What content does Shepard get from The Fist encounter that the Renegade doesn't?
That's my point. None. I can make up reasons all day why Renegade is better for this reason or that reason,but I don't agree with the argument.
It has never been about content or rewards for me. Just choice and outcome.
It's the way My Shepard felt like dealing with the given situation at any given time.

I kill Fist everytime. Shouldn't of messed with Tali.
The Rachni I let live, because it is wrong to commit Genocide based on others opinions.
Plus she could become a potential ally or threat,but I felt the right thing to do was give her the chance to prove herself.

So an Asari confirms the Rachni are still alive as does a news message. If I killed the Rachni Queen,why bring it up? They have been extinct for over a thousand years. I kept it that way. Job Done,what could possibly be gained from this?

Ps. We still do not know the full outcome of that choice either. So where are all of these unfair advantages?
It's a playstyle.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Bioware used to let you join the dark side in all of their games, but they never do that anymore and even the little bit of evil they still let you take part in is tacked on at best. If it weren't such an imbalanced split then they'd try harder I'm sure.

[andy6915]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Rachni Queen:  
Renegade- Kill her, you get Council thanks and a potential galactic threat is put down but could've been an ally.  
Paragon- Spare her, you get questioned/admonished by the Council but an entire race is vowed to sing your praises.

4:32

You get yelled at either way.

[Unpleasant Implications]

Rip504 wrote...


What content does Shepard get from The Fist encounter that the Renegade doesn't?
That's my point. None.

Nothing happens. It's not acknowledged at all, that's the point.

So an Asari confirms the Rachni are still alive as does a news message. If I killed the Rachni Queen,why bring it up? They have been extinct for over a thousand years. I kept it that way. Job Done,what could possibly be gained from this?

Acknowledgement that you quite possibly stopped one of the greatest threat to the galaxy from rising again.

Ps. We still do not know the full outcome of that choice either. So where are all of these unfair advantages?
It's a playstyle.

Yes we dooooooo. The leak is only missing content. If it was full of misinformation then they would've made less of a big deal about it.

Modifié par Unpleasant Implications, 05 février 2012 - 01:45 .

[Collider]

What content does Shepard get from The Fist encounter that the Renegade doesn't?

A conversation, a cameo, and an acknowledgement of a past decision. Continuity.

Renegade players get nothing whatsoever. He may as well have never met Fist.

It's nothing to write home about, but it's content that paragon Shepard gets and renegade Shepard doesn't. So far as choice and outcome? Paragon gets an outcome, renegade players don't.

So where are all of these unfair advantages?

I really don't know how to make it more clear that content is an advantage in terms of player enjoyment. Maybe you don't think so, but I do.

If I killed the Rachni Queen,why bring it up?

Bioware can easily think of a scenario where it's relevant for a character to bring up Shepard killing the rachni queen. It's no impossible feat.

[Rip504]

I didn't see the spoilers sorry.
The content is there,and you are deciding what to do with it.
No you are asking Bioware to add to the Renegade playthrough,because what they had there,you "the player" have removed and now want it replaced.

Edit:
I understand just don't see the point.
But maybe in ME3,we can have a memorial for all those who have fallen to Shepard.

Modifié par Rip504, 05 février 2012 - 01:50 .

[DJBare]

Barquiel wrote...

I haven't recognized any naive paragon decisions so far.

Rana Thanopsis, and you are given a rather big hint towards it.
PS, excuse the fix.

[Unpleasant Implications]

Rip504 wrote...

I didn't see the spoilers sorry.

Trust me you're better off with shock factor of a few things. I almost wish I hadn't spoiled myself, but oh well

The content is there,...

For paragons

No you are asking Bioware to add to the Renegade playthrough,because what they had there,you "the player" have removed and now want it replaced.

No, we are asking for equal acknowledgement of our decisions. Not to lose content and have them slid under the rug.

Modifié par Unpleasant Implications, 05 février 2012 - 01:50 .

[CerberusSoldier]

well since the stupid P / R system is so in favor of paragons really does renegades even stand a chance in 3

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Dexi wrote...
It's just Saphra Den... He'll turn this thread into a paragon vs renegade discussion ( in which he will brilliantly show how renegades are are defavorized ) and hijack it, as he always does... 

Time prooved you were right.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

andy69156915 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
Rachni Queen:  
Renegade- Kill her, you get Council thanks and a potential galactic threat is put down but could've been an ally.  
Paragon- Spare her, you get questioned/admonished by the Council but an entire race is vowed to sing your praises.

4:32

You get yelled at either way.

The Turian picks on you, but it's not really an admonishment... and sets up a really nice counter

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Rip504 wrote...

What content does Shepard get from The Fist encounter that the Renegade doesn't?

Cameo/extra conversation.  Did it for the Rachni Queen too.... and the Council... and Shiala.  Percs like that add up.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 février 2012 - 01:57 .

[TurianFrigate]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

well since the stupid P / R system is so in favor of paragons really does renegades even stand a chance in 3

We haven't still played the game but if Cerberus would be available as an ally then the choices from ME2 like Overlord, Collector Base and selling Legion would proof very useful.