756 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip504]

Percs? Different outcomes of the SAME content based on your choice.
Whether it be Paragon or Renegade. You chose what to do with this content,now you are unhappy with your choice?
Because someone didn't say yay your a murderer?

Edit: I'm sorry. I was happy with the way my choice felt like they carried weight. Both Paragon & Renegade.
The idea that something I did completly wiped something out of my game,obviously carries a great deal of weight.

Modifié par Rip504, 05 février 2012 - 02:07 .

[Barquiel]

DJBare wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I haven't recognized any naive paragon decisions so far.

Rana Thanopsis, and you are given a rather big hint towards it.
PS, excuse the fix.

She is one of the very few people who actually knows something about indoctrination. Her knowledge could be extremely valuable. I don't see how shooting her is pragmatic or something, she should have been sent to the Normandy.

[Unpleasant Implications]

Rip504 wrote...

Percs? Different outcomes of the SAME content based on your choice.

Yes, but one choice isn't acknowledged with... ahem... physical content like the other

Whether it be Paragon or Renegade. You chose what to do with this content,now you are unhappy with your choice?
Because someone didn't say yay your a murderer?

No, it's more like I want "You did this, so this has happened." content, the same that Paragons recieved. Acknowledgement of my choice.

Modifié par Unpleasant Implications, 05 février 2012 - 02:07 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Rip504 wrote...

Percs? Different outcomes of the SAME content based on your choice.
Whether it be Paragon or Renegade. You chose what to do with this content,now you are unhappy with your choice?
Because someone didn't say yay your a murderer?

"Nothing" is not much of an outcome.  And Neutral/Renegade content doesn't have to be directly related at all.  It boils down to moments.  Paragons get more "moments."  Spare someone, you see them again.  Kill someone, why not run into a situation that wouldn't come about otherwise (like the Paragon alternative provides)?  Where's the content?

Renegades and Neutrals form a new Council... where are they?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 février 2012 - 02:10 .

[Rip504]

Yes not even getting a look at the new council is the only one I will agree with.
But Its understandable,they owe you nothing. Anderson is a friend. If I'm not mistaken Anderson or Udina are part of that Human council,so in a way you meet them. You are informed that the new council is not going to help you. A meeting would be completely pointless.

Modifié par Rip504, 05 février 2012 - 02:14 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Rip504 wrote...

Yes not even getting a look at the new council is the only one I will agree with.
But Its understandable,they owe you nothing. Anderson is a friend. If I'm not mistaken Anderson or Udina is part of that Human council,so in a way you meet them. You are informed that the new council is not going to help you. A meeting would be completely pointless.

When Anderson (specifically) is the leader of the Council... and he can't call a meeting... something is wrong.  And the Council does owe you an audience.  You're back from the dead with all manner of rumor and questions regarding your absence swirling around.  To not find out what happened is kind of dumb... especially considering that Shepard only answers to the Council as a Spectre.

Anderson will see you regardless, sure... but to not want to see or hear about you at all (now that you're back) doesn't make sense.

[CerberusSoldier]

Rip504 wrote...

Yes not even getting a look at the new council is the only one I will agree with.
But Its understandable,they owe you nothing. Anderson is a friend. If I'm not mistaken Anderson or Udina are part of that Human council,so in a way you meet them. You are informed that the new council is not going to help you. A meeting would be completely pointless.

  

oh so they owe us nothing well thats bull crap . if you save the council and don't kiss their butts they threaten you . Anderson is not no friend when he send the VS to spy on you in 2 . you freaking paragons got your wish us renegade shepards are screwed and hand cuffed and we have to work with a group that spied on us in 2 . yeah TIM did but dam he had a reason . Bioware is so anti Cerberus and paragon its not even funny .

[DJBare]

Barquiel wrote...

She is one of the very few people who actually knows something about indoctrination. Her knowledge could be extremely valuable. I don't see how shooting her is pragmatic or something, she should have been sent to the Normandy.

Best hope she's on your side then

Modifié par DJBare, 05 février 2012 - 02:20 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It's not just one thing that's led to the "Paragon favoritism" conclusion... it's everything. Look at the story continuity:

ME2 (Paragon): Base is destroyed, TIM upset but your entire crew is happy with your decision (even those who were against destroying it before) and you're told by Jacob that Cerberus will be your enemy and will be coming after you (in ME3). So seeing them as one of the major bad guys isn't a surprise.

ME2 (Renegade): Base is kept, TIM is happy but your entire squad completely disagrees with your choice (even the ones that were for the choice just minutes earlier)... that's it. Nothing leading into a breakdown in working relationship between Shepard and Cerberus at all... big plot hole at this point. What happened?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 février 2012 - 02:23 .

[Rip504]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Yes not even getting a look at the new council is the only one I will agree with.
But Its understandable,they owe you nothing. Anderson is a friend. If I'm not mistaken Anderson or Udina is part of that Human council,so in a way you meet them. You are informed that the new council is not going to help you. A meeting would be completely pointless.

When Anderson (specifically) is the leader of the Council... and he can't call a meeting... something is wrong.  And the Council does owe you an audience.  You're back from the dead with all manner of rumor and questions regarding your absence swirling around.  To not find out what happened is kind of dumb... especially considering that Shepard only answers to the Council as a Spectre.

Anderson will see you regardless, sure... but to not want to see or hear about you at all (now that you're back) doesn't make sense.

Shepard is no longer a Spectre at the beginning of ME2. Nor is he Alliance. Nope he is just a Cerberus agent the council owes nothing to. Maybe they are investigating Shepard's activities over the last 2 years. Why should an all human council take Shepard's word he/she was dead for 2 years and is peaceful working with Cerberus for the greater good. Cerberus an enemy of everyone.

What sense does it make to listen to an enemy who claims to have been brought back to life after being dead for 2 years? Not much. Cerberus is the enemy

[Rip504]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Yes not even getting a look at the new council is the only one I will agree with.
But Its understandable,they owe you nothing. Anderson is a friend. If I'm not mistaken Anderson or Udina are part of that Human council,so in a way you meet them. You are informed that the new council is not going to help you. A meeting would be completely pointless.

  

oh so they owe us nothing well thats bull crap . if you save the council and don't kiss their butts they threaten you . Anderson is not no friend when he send the VS to spy on you in 2 . you freaking paragons got your wish us renegade shepards are screwed and hand cuffed and we have to work with a group that spied on us in 2 . yeah TIM did but dam he had a reason . Bioware is so anti Cerberus and paragon its not even funny .

How do you save an all new human coucil in ME1?

[Seboist]

Collider wrote...

Bioware can easily think of a scenario where it's relevant for a character to bring up Shepard killing the rachni queen. It's no impossible feat.

Greater support from the Krogan for such a Shepard would be an obvious one. Wrex threw a huge fit in ME1 over Parashep even THINKING of releasing her and saying s/he is essentially pissing on the graves of millions of Krogans who died trying to wipe them out and if she's released he vows that the Krogan will "finish the job again" but unfortunately that's yet another subplot that goes absolutely nowhere.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Rip504 wrote...
Shepard is no longer a Spectre at the beginning of ME2. Nor is he Alliance. Nope he is just a Cerberus agent the council owes nothing to. Maybe they are investigating Shepard's activities over the last 2 years. Why should an all human council take Shepard's word he/she was dead for 2 years and is peaceful working with Cerberus for the greater good. Cerberus an enemy of everyone.

What sense does it make to listen to an enemy who claims to have been brought back to life after being dead for 2 years? Not much. Cerberus is the enemy

He's still technically a Spectre but his clearances hadn't been formally reinstated.  Anderson clearly says that the Council couldn't object to him giving Shepard his "status" back because of that reason.  He was never "fired" from his Spectre position.

And after the ordeal with Saren... you'd expect the Council to want to hear about Shepard once he comes back making endorsements across Citadel space.  Shepard isn't Cerberus... and his involvement with Cerberus is only a rumor.

[CerberusSoldier]

He was not working for the alliance in 2 thats a dam fact. Oh please if you don't take the stupid title reinstatement the council which you die paragon fan droids love . I know my shepard won't be no alien council butt kisser in 3 nor will he take any crap from a group that does not trust him at all

[CerberusSoldier]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...
Shepard is no longer a Spectre at the beginning of ME2. Nor is he Alliance. Nope he is just a Cerberus agent the council owes nothing to. Maybe they are investigating Shepard's activities over the last 2 years. Why should an all human council take Shepard's word he/she was dead for 2 years and is peaceful working with Cerberus for the greater good. Cerberus an enemy of everyone.

What sense does it make to listen to an enemy who claims to have been brought back to life after being dead for 2 years? Not much. Cerberus is the enemy

He's still technically a Spectre but his clearances hadn't been formally reinstated.  Anderson clearly says that the Council couldn't object to him giving Shepard his "status" back because of that reason.  He was never "fired" from his Spectre position.

And after the ordeal with Saren... you'd expect the Council to want to hear about Shepard once he comes back making endorsements across Citadel space.  Shepard isn't Cerberus... and his involvement with Cerberus is only a rumor.

   



your shepard might not be but all 3 of mine are pro Cerberus and human as well pro Geth and krogan .

[ddv.rsa]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...
Shepard is no longer a Spectre at the beginning of ME2. Nor is he Alliance. Nope he is just a Cerberus agent the council owes nothing to. Maybe they are investigating Shepard's activities over the last 2 years. Why should an all human council take Shepard's word he/she was dead for 2 years and is peaceful working with Cerberus for the greater good. Cerberus an enemy of everyone.

What sense does it make to listen to an enemy who claims to have been brought back to life after being dead for 2 years? Not much. Cerberus is the enemy

He's still technically a Spectre but his clearances hadn't been formally reinstated.  Anderson clearly says that the Council couldn't object to him giving Shepard his "status" back because of that reason.  He was never "fired" from his Spectre position.

And after the ordeal with Saren... you'd expect the Council to want to hear about Shepard once he comes back making endorsements across Citadel space.  Shepard isn't Cerberus... and his involvement with Cerberus is only a rumor.

   



your shepard might not be but all 3 of mine are pro Cerberus and human as well pro Geth and krogan .

Cerberus is anti-Geth and anti-Krogan. How can your Shepard be pro-Cerberus if he is pro-Geth and Krogan?

[Unpleasant Implications]

Rip504 wrote...

Shepard is no longer a Spectre at the beginning of ME2. Nor is he Alliance. Nope he is just a Cerberus agent the council owes nothing to. Maybe they are investigating Shepard's activities over the last 2 years.

THAT is your reasoning? "Oh look, a spectre who was presumed dead appears before us and is acording to rumors working with terrorists. Let's just turn a blind eye to them." That's just not responsible.

Why should an all human council take Shepard's word

They could atleast lend an ear to Shepard for allowing there to BE a human council in the first place.

he/she was dead for 2 years and is peaceful working with Cerberus for the greater good. Cerberus an enemy of everyone.

You could play in quite the opposite fashion.

What sense does it make to listen to an enemy who claims to have been brought back to life after being dead for 2 years? Not much. Cerberus is the enemy

What sense? Ask what the hell happened, how they're alive, why Cerberus, intel on it's innerworkings, SOMETHING THAT PROVES A SHRED OF COMPETENCE! And Cerberus being the enemy is a wasted opprotunity to add sometruly grey morality to the series. Truly dissapointing.

[tetrisblock4x1]

jreezy wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Bioware used to let you join the dark side in all of their games, but they never do that anymore and even the little bit of evil they still let you take part in is tacked on at best. If it weren't such an imbalanced split then they'd try harder I'm sure.

Since Paragon and Renegade isn't necessarily a Light Side and  Dark Side type of morality I don't see your point here.

Doesn't surprise me.

If you've played Baldurs Gate II and the expansion you'll see how much more railroaded and set Biowares player character narrative is now compared to then. If you haven't, then go and download the BG saga from good old games now for about $10. GOG provide a really great service for retro gaming and it'll take around 200 hours to complete the saga first time depending on how good you are.

[Dave of Canada]

How the game should've handled it:
Paragon results in everybody in the galaxy uniting under Shepard's banner, working with peace and love and all that Star Trek federation crap. You'd be weaker as you'd never sacrifice for the sake of the mission, often leaving greater sacrifices in your wake. Leaving survivors alive compromises a facility as the survivors are indoctrinated, ect.

End result would yield a united but weaker galaxy who has to rebuild from the ashes.

Paragon results in everybody in the galaxy watching their backs, serving Shepard being the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The now human Council rules over the galaxy with an iron fist, war looms on the horizon should the Reapers simply disappear and everybody's military is upgraded due to the preperations from the war (which ME2 hinted at). Stronger military forces due to not taking any risk, no matter how "selfish" or "jerkass" they are.

End result would yield in a stronger but fragmented galaxy, on the verge of war and destruction despite the Reaper invasion.

The problem with the Paragon style is that the galaxy is united, just as strong as the Renegade galaxy, everybody loves you, everybody mentions what you do and any risk that you take (which the Renegade doesn't) somehow ends up perfectly clear. If it somehow backfires, it changes down the line to benefit you anyway.

[tangalin]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

crying time again?  How about playing ME 3 before you make assumptions?  And don't say the "but the according to the leak"

So far nothing in the leak has been wrong.

You don't like it? Tough. Stop complaining about my complaining.

Stop complaining about his complaining about your complaining!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rip504 wrote...

Collider wrote...

The unfair advantage is that paragon players get content and renegade players don't.
I think your point about commanders having legality to execute people isn't very relevant when the game itself doesn't even mention it. It would be an unfair advantage if it was noted in game but Shepard got away with it - in other words, content.

What content does Shepard get from The Fist encounter that the Renegade doesn't?
That's my point. None. I can make up reasons all day why Renegade is better for this reason or that reason,but I don't agree with the argument.
It has never been about content or rewards for me. Just choice and outcome.
It's the way My Shepard felt like dealing with the given situation at any given time.

I kill Fist everytime. Shouldn't of messed with Tali.
The Rachni I let live, because it is wrong to commit Genocide based on others opinions.
Plus she could become a potential ally or threat,but I felt the right thing to do was give her the chance to prove herself.

So an Asari confirms the Rachni are still alive as does a news message. If I killed the Rachni Queen,why bring it up? They have been extinct for over a thousand years. I kept it that way. Job Done,what could possibly be gained from this?

Dude...why is it so hard for you to undersntad this?

Renegades want the world to acknowledge their actions. That IS content. Some NPC poping up and tellign you you're scum - taht is content. As meaningless as it may seems, it's little touches like that that add to the overall atmosphere.

There is no reason why persons relevant to past events should congregate on the planet Shep jsut happens to be ATM...but only if you're paragon.

Heard that news report about the DA and it's victory tour? Well, how about a news reports about Shep killing the Rachni? Or SOMETHING.
Bioware didn't have a problem wiht cramming Paragon camoes everywhere - but renegade camoes? Who gives a damn? So yes..that is content. Content paragons get renegades don't.

[tangalin]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Bioware used to let you join the dark side in all of their games, but they never do that anymore and even the little bit of evil they still let you take part in is tacked on at best. If it weren't such an imbalanced split then they'd try harder I'm sure.

Since Paragon and Renegade isn't necessarily a Light Side and  Dark Side type of morality I don't see your point here.

Doesn't surprise me.

If you've played Baldurs Gate II and the expansion you'll see how much more railroaded and set Biowares player character narrative is now compared to then. If you haven't, then go and download the BG saga from good old games now for about $10. GOG provide a really great service for retro gaming and it'll take around 200 hours to complete the saga first time depending on how good you are.

Why would you do that to someone knowing full well that after they play it they will be filled with an insatiable need for more that cannot be satisfied?