1833 réponses à ce sujet

[Heraxion]

LumpOfCole wrote...

Now that the book is getting corrected, I wonder if I should keep going with the rage comics

Keep going!

[izmirtheastarach]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Since when has William C. ever written anything worth reading? 

Shepard told us that Dietz was coming, but we didn't listen.

[Kalms]

Yeah, keep going

[Stoko981]

As awesome as this news is, it'll still suck. Because even if you fix all the lore errors and canon contradictions... I mean say for example, the autism thing. That requires totally reworking Gillian's character. Her thought processes, her interactions with people. You can't just quick fix it by adding a line in near the start of the book. How about the Illusive Man? "Holy crap, a teenage girl wants to kill me? What if she succeeds where numerous elite commandos have failed? Quick, murder her now! *hides under bed*" - If the Illusive Man ordered everyone who wanted him dead murdered, there'd be very few people left in the galaxy. Never mind the fact that he spent a fair chunk of resources giving her her powers in the first place. But if you take that out, the plot of the book changes drastically.

What I'm saying is, really, the book needs tossing out. A new book needs writing in it's place, even if it uses the same barebones plot outline. I mean, what even is the plot? Nothing happens. Gillian wants to kill TIM, spends the book trying. Leng wants to kill Gillian, spends the book trying. Nick has some teenage rebellion/cult brainwashing thing going on... And really, 50 odd biotics are planning to overthrow the entire galactic government? It's like a three year old's fanfiction.

And the ending, come on. I don't wanna post spoilers, but what happens to, you know, to such an interesting character, who could've had such an interesting plot instead (say, out in the far reaches of space, beyond the mass relay network, in unexplored space with quarian explorers). Even if it wasn't brought about with a toothbrush, even if that were changed, it's still a rubbish thing to happen.

And finally, really, who's going to spend money buying this book again? Especially knowing all the higher level stuff - the bad characterisation, illogical actions, paper-thin plot, disappointing ending, ridiculous short-sentence grammar - can't really be changed short of a total rewrite, which they won't do. It's the principle of the thing.

[BentOrgy]

From what I've gathered from this thread, (And my own opinion.) is that Jeffzero and LPPrince need to start another 450 page thread.

This time detailing the reasons why Deception shouldn't be "Rewritten," but canned, and either a new book be written, or none at all.

[Yuoaman]

BentOrgy wrote...

From what I've gathered from this thread, (And my own opinion.) is that Jeffzero and LPPrince need to start another 450 page thread.

This time detailing the reasons why Deception shouldn't be "Rewritten," but canned, and either a new book be written, or none at all.

Don't you worry... as the release of the new version nears... we will return.

Though we actually aren't going anywhere, so we'll just start talking about it.

[Reptilian Rob]

Terror_K wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Personally, I don't think a few changes will be enough. The thing seriously either needs to be made non-canon or needs to be completely rewritten by a different author. Not only are there near-on 100 lore errors or inconsistencies, but the thing is shockingly written on top of that.

Since when has William C. ever written anything worth reading? 

I don't know. This is the first time I've (partially) read anything of his. But that's kind of my point: either just strike the book from the canon, or get a different author to give it a heavy rewrite. If you must keep the broad brushstrokes of the story, then fine, but almost every paragraph I've read in that damn thing is awful, whether it's an inconsistency, bad grammar, unneccesary repetition of something or just bland.

He single handedly ruined Halo for around a year with his book (I **** you not) entiled "Halo".

Basically a retelling of CE, but without any of the charm. 

[leeboi2]

Scrap it all and give me a story that doesn't have ANYTHING TO DO WITH GODDAMN CERBERUS! Jesus H, might as well have just made TIM the main character of the series, screw Shepard...

[Oni Changas]

Is there any reason why Drew Karpyshyn can't just write a proper sequel to Retribution? I enjoyed his dedication to consistency and attention to detail.

[plenau]

I bought this "flawed" book. So, what do I get for it? If it's nothing, I'm flipping the bird, returning it to Amazon and reading it for free later. Thanks for crappy consumer loyalty

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

He single handedly ruined Halo for around a year with his book (I **** you not) entiled "Halo".

Basically a retelling of CE, but without any of the charm. 

It's titled "Halo: The Flood" and I thought it was fine. He left most of the game events as they were and offered another perspective from a couple covenant, it was entertaining.

[Terror_K]

OniTYME wrote...

Is there any reason why Drew Karpyshyn can't just write a proper sequel to Retribution? I enjoyed his dedication to consistency and attention to detail.

I think he's still busy writing new TOR content and has another Star Wars novel on the go right now.

[Reptilian Rob]

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

He single handedly ruined Halo for around a year with his book (I **** you not) entiled "Halo".

Basically a retelling of CE, but without any of the charm. 

It's titled "Halo: The Flood" and I thought it was fine. He left most of the game events as they were and offered another perspective from a couple covenant, it was entertaining.

It was poorly written, with his classic short grammar thrown in everywhere. 

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

I won't argue with the latter.

[Terror_K]

The other thing is, this "solution" basically comes down to this:- you all feel you wasted money on this book, so we're fixing it (maybe) with a solution that asks you to give us more money for a (maybe) decent version.

Sorry, but I think anybody who hasn't burned their existing copy in rage and can produce a receipt should get a free replacement. When I feel that you (BioWare, Deitz, etc.) owe me my money back, why should I give you more?

Modifié par Terror_K, 04 février 2012 - 12:35 .

[Saiyan1126]

Wow... When I mentioned Bioware patching the book, I never thought they'd actually do it.

I gotta give Bioware props. You can't say they don't listen to the fans when they're actually willing to patch a book.

Now I wonder how much a first edition ME: Deception copy would be worth in the future. Maybe it'll be like the 3 Legged Buffalo Nickel.

[Reptilian Rob]

Terror_K wrote...

The other thing is, this "solution" basically comes down to this:- you all feel you wasted money on this book, so we're fixing it (maybe) with a solution that asks you to give us more money for a (maybe) decent version.

Sorry, but I think anybody who hasn't burned their existing copy in rage and can produce a receipt should get a free replacement. When I feel that you (BioWare, Deitz, etc.) owe me my money back, why should I give you more?

Completely agree, they should do what 343 did with the Halo Encyclopedia and give everyone either...

A) Their money back.

A replacement book with the updated version. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 04 février 2012 - 12:37 .

[padawanmage]

 A good question to ask is, how the heck did it ever get this far?

Seriously, isn't it an editors job to CHECK things like this before a manuscript goes to the presses?

Or was Dietz effectively given an outline, carte blanche to write whatever?

Just wondering...

[M.C.Tales]

OniTYME wrote...

Is there any reason why Drew Karpyshyn can't just write a proper sequel to Retribution? I enjoyed his dedication to consistency and attention to detail.

Drew Karpyshyn left the Mass Effect writing team to work on BioWare's Star Wars: The Old Republic.

EDIT: Dang! Terror_K beat me to the punch! Sorry.

Modifié par M.C.Tales, 04 février 2012 - 12:40 .

[Zhuinden]

Chris Priestly wrote...
We are currently working on a number of changes that will appear in future editions of the novel. 

The very concept of the book is already terrible, I'm sort of worried that a few "changes" wouldnt fix it.
Also, editions? You mean there would be more "new edition of Deception" than one? That seems... strange.

Modifié par Zhuinden, 04 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[TMA LIVE]

I haven't read it, beyond the what's been posted online, but I wouldn't say dump it, unless everything about it was contradicting beyond repair. I'm not expecting better writing. As long as I can read it and understand what's happening, that's all I care about. I've seen people **** about how Richard Matheson and Stephen King are bad "writing" wise, so I don't care.

I just care about three things:

1) It's accurate to the lore from both the games and the books that came before it.

2) It's accurate to characters from both the games and the books that came before it.

3) It's readable in the sense that I can imagine what's happening, no problem.

Because that's all I can expect to get at this point.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 04 février 2012 - 12:46 .

[TMA LIVE]

Because honestly, they ain't going to dump something they spent 2 years on, and paid for. Just to hire someone else to spend 7 weeks writing a completely different book.

[Direwolf0294]

I've been reading through the list of mistakes with the book and I have to take issue with one of them. I figure I'd post it here cause I don't know how to get in touch with the people making the list.

"7. Hendel Mitra is described as ogling asari strippers, a very heterosexual reaction - Hendel was established as homosexual in Ascension. [Error: Characters]"

Because of the way Asari work it doesn't matter what a persons sexual preference is, they'd still be capable of finding Asari attractive.

I can cite two instances in the game that supports this:

1: In Mass Effect 1 if you're playing femShep and you flirt with both Kaidan and Liara when confronted by them Kaidan mentions that he didn't think you were that way (or something along those lines, I can't remember the exact wording)  to which Liara replies that it's not that simple.
This seems to be indicating that even a straight women would find Asari attractive.

2: In Mass Effect 2 at the bar on the Asari planet (forget its name) there is a Human, Turian and Salarian watching an Asari dancer. The Salarian comments how pointless the whole thing is because Salarians don't have the same sexual drive as other species do (once again I can't remember the exact words he uses). As the conversation goes on though the Salarian eventually starts to find the Asari sexually attractive. There are also other cases of Salarians finding Asari sexually attractive, such as that Salarian who's shopping with his step-daughter to buy his Asari wife a present so she will remember him after he's dead.
This indicates that even species who don't have a sexual drive, at least not one like we do, and who aren't even mammals, like Asari are, are capable of finding Asari attractive.

I think these two things tell us that even if a man is gay that he would still find Asari sexually attractive.

I normally wouldn't be this pedantic but since the people who made the list are trying to be as true to the lore as they can I think it's something worth pointing out. Hopefully this will reach them somehow.

[izmirtheastarach]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I normally wouldn't be this pedantic but since the people who made the list are trying to be as true to the lore as they can I think it's something worth pointing out. Hopefully this will reach them somehow.

This made me chuckle. Hopefully this will reach them? Aren't we all right here?

You make an argument. However, if we simply stick with the clearest definitions available the Asari are, acorrding to the Codex, female.

I do not personally believe that a gay man would be attracted to a female alien. Doesn't work for me. You're also reading into that first exchange the opposite of what I do. It seems clear that Kaidan is saying he was unaware that FemShep swung both ways. All your othe example are of men finding females attractive.

It's pretty clear that Dietz did not even know Hendel was gay. He makes no reference to it at all.

And, just to be overly anal myself, the Salarian it the gift kiosk? That's his actual daughter.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 01:02 .