1833 réponses à ce sujet

[bk0125]

This is just a very poorly written book, so no mater how much correction you do to the lore, short of rewriting the whole thing it still remains a very bad book.
So I add my voice to the opinion that it should be tossed as cannon and move on, oh and don't let Mr. Dietz near any of the future works.

[didymos1120]

You know, as funny as the drunk idiots on Illium are, sometimes I just really want to kick whoever wrote that. Way too many people take that way too seriously.

Modifié par didymos1120, 04 février 2012 - 01:00 .

[Direwolf0294]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I normally wouldn't be this pedantic but since the people who made the list are trying to be as true to the lore as they can I think it's something worth pointing out. Hopefully this will reach them somehow.

This made me chuckle. Hopefully this will reach them? Aren't we all right here?

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

edit to reply to your updated post:

You make an argument. However, if we simply stick with the clearest
definitions available the Asari are, acorrding to the Codex, female.

I
do not personally believe that a gay man would be attracted to a female
alien. Doesn't work for me. You're also reading into that first
exchange the opposite of what I do. It seems clear that Kaidan is saying
he was unaware that FemShep swung both ways. All your othe example are
of men finding females attractive.

It's pretty clear that Dietz did not even know Hendel was gay. He makes no reference to it at all.

And, just to be overly anal myself, the Salarian it the gift kiosk? That's his actual daughter.

Yes Kaidan is saying he was unaware that femShep swung both ways. What Liara says to him though is that it's not that simple. It's not that femShep swings both ways, though she might, it's that Asari can be sexually attractive to anyone. At least that's how I interpreted it.

Also that Asari is that Salarians step-daughter. The Salarian mentions how she, the Asari, doesn't have many memories of  her father because he died when she was young and she says that the whole reason she went with him on the trip was because she thinks of him, the Salarian, as her father.

Modifié par Direwolf0294, 04 février 2012 - 01:11 .

[Wrathra]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I've been reading through the list of mistakes with the book and I have to take issue with one of them. I figure I'd post it here cause I don't know how to get in touch with the people making the list.

"7. Hendel Mitra is described as ogling asari strippers, a very heterosexual reaction - Hendel was established as homosexual in Ascension. [Error: Characters]"

Because of the way Asari work it doesn't matter what a persons sexual preference is, they'd still be capable of finding Asari attractive.

I can cite two instances in the game that supports this:

1: In Mass Effect 1 if you're playing femShep and you flirt with both Kaidan and Liara when confronted by them Kaidan mentions that he didn't think you were that way (or something along those lines, I can't remember the exact wording)  to which Liara replies that it's not that simple.
This seems to be indicating that even a straight women would find Asari attractive.

2: In Mass Effect 2 at the bar on the Asari planet (forget its name) there is a Human, Turian and Salarian watching an Asari dancer. The Salarian comments how pointless the whole thing is because Salarians don't have the same sexual drive as other species do (once again I can't remember the exact words he uses). As the conversation goes on though the Salarian eventually starts to find the Asari sexually attractive. There are also other cases of Salarians finding Asari sexually attractive, such as that Salarian who's shopping with his step-daughter to buy his Asari wife a present so she will remember him after he's dead.
This indicates that even species who don't have a sexual drive, at least not one like we do, and who aren't even mammals, like Asari are, are capable of finding Asari attractive.

I think these two things tell us that even if a man is gay that he would still find Asari sexually attractive.

I normally wouldn't be this pedantic but since the people who made the list are trying to be as true to the lore as they can I think it's something worth pointing out. Hopefully this will reach them somehow.

I think that this would make more sense if asari appeared to possess whatever sexual traits whoever they were interacting with found attractive (say Liara appeared to a straight femshep as having male traits) . However, there is nothing to really indicate that they appear as anything other than women (though it is hinted that they can appear as different species - like in the bar on Illium, but not sure if this is just a mental thing or whatever).  I don't think homosexual men find women sexually attractive under any circumstances. if they did, they would be either bisexual or hetrosexual.  A bisexual femshep could be attracted to Kaidan and Liara.

[Wulfram]

didymos1120 wrote...

You know, as funny as the drunk idiots on Illium are, sometimes I just really want to kick whoever wrote that. Way too many people take that way too seriously.

The ability of Asari to be attractive outside of people who'd normally find a more or less human female form attractive is established elsewhere too.

[Yuoaman]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I normally wouldn't be this pedantic but since the people who made the list are trying to be as true to the lore as they can I think it's something worth pointing out. Hopefully this will reach them somehow.

This made me chuckle. Hopefully this will reach them? Aren't we all right here?

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

edit to reply to your updated post:

You make an argument. However, if we simply stick with the clearest
definitions available the Asari are, acorrding to the Codex, female.

I
do not personally believe that a gay man would be attracted to a female
alien. Doesn't work for me. You're also reading into that first
exchange the opposite of what I do. It seems clear that Kaidan is saying
he was unaware that FemShep swung both ways. All your othe example are
of men finding females attractive.

It's pretty clear that Dietz did not even know Hendel was gay. He makes no reference to it at all.

And, just to be overly anal myself, the Salarian it the gift kiosk? That's his actual daughter.

Yes Kaidan is saying he was unaware that femShep swung both ways. What Liara says to him though is that it's not that simple. It's not that femShep swings both ways, though she might, it's that Asari can be sexually attractive to anyone. 

Also that Asari is that Salarians step-daughter. The Salarian mentions how she, the Asaria, doesn't have many memories of him, her father, because he died when she was young and she says that the whole reason she went with him on the trip was because she thinks of him, the Salarian, as her real father.

Almost everyone who updates the doc is from this forum, I've been the one giving out access - and I've read the entirety of the 450 page thread, so 17 pages isn't much to slog through.

[izmirtheastarach]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

Just to clarify, everyone who worked on the document is a member of the forums. We created the document in the 400+ thread that was where all this came from. We're all here, more or less. Yuoman, who is the main admin of the doc, posted in her not 30 minutes ago.

You are welcome to pitch this at him directly via PM as well.

As for this secondary argument, I'll go pull the audio so I can quote it back to you.

EDIT: Yeah, Yuoman, beat me to it why don't you.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 01:16 .

[Yuoaman]

Wulfram wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

You know, as funny as the drunk idiots on Illium are, sometimes I just really want to kick whoever wrote that. Way too many people take that way too seriously.

The ability of Asari to be attractive outside of people who'd normally find a more or less human female form attractive is established elsewhere too.

That's like supporting Kai Leng's ogling of the asari, despite it being well established that he finds anything and everything alien to be repulsive.

Plus nowhere in the text does Dietz mention Hendel's sexuality, and there was no need to have him ogle asari - they're fetishized enough in other media.

[Balmung31]

Welp, it's official.  Bioware has said that Dietz "BETRAYED THE LORE!!!"

This'll put a cramp on his sales of the book.  It's probably been said already, but the word must be spread that a revised edition is coming.  Don't waste money on this one. 

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

Just to clarify, everyone who worked on the document is a member of the forums. We created the document in the 400+ thread that was where all this came from. We're all here, more or less. Yuoman, who is the man admin of the doc, posted in her not 30 minutes ago.

You welcome to pitch this at him directly via PM as well.

As for this secondary argument, I'll go pull the audio so I can quote it back to you.

EDIT: Yeah, Yuoman, beat me to it why don't you.

I'm both the main admin and the man admin - it depends on the day of the week.

DOHOHO.

[XXIceColdXX]

Terror_K wrote...

The other thing is, this "solution" basically comes down to this:- you all feel you wasted money on this book, so we're fixing it (maybe) with a solution that asks you to give us more money for a (maybe) decent version.

Sorry, but I think anybody who hasn't burned their existing copy in rage and can produce a receipt should get a free replacement. When I feel that you (BioWare, Deitz, etc.) owe me my money back, why should I give you more?

Whether you buy the next version or not, whether they make money or not. At least they are planning on doing something to rectify all the glaring lore errors that seriously comprimise the whole Mass Effect experience.

[TMA LIVE]

Wrathra wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I've been reading through the list of mistakes with the book and I have to take issue with one of them. I figure I'd post it here cause I don't know how to get in touch with the people making the list.

"7. Hendel Mitra is described as ogling asari strippers, a very heterosexual reaction - Hendel was established as homosexual in Ascension. [Error: Characters]"

Because of the way Asari work it doesn't matter what a persons sexual preference is, they'd still be capable of finding Asari attractive.

I can cite two instances in the game that supports this:

1: In Mass Effect 1 if you're playing femShep and you flirt with both Kaidan and Liara when confronted by them Kaidan mentions that he didn't think you were that way (or something along those lines, I can't remember the exact wording)  to which Liara replies that it's not that simple.
This seems to be indicating that even a straight women would find Asari attractive.

2: In Mass Effect 2 at the bar on the Asari planet (forget its name) there is a Human, Turian and Salarian watching an Asari dancer. The Salarian comments how pointless the whole thing is because Salarians don't have the same sexual drive as other species do (once again I can't remember the exact words he uses). As the conversation goes on though the Salarian eventually starts to find the Asari sexually attractive. There are also other cases of Salarians finding Asari sexually attractive, such as that Salarian who's shopping with his step-daughter to buy his Asari wife a present so she will remember him after he's dead.
This indicates that even species who don't have a sexual drive, at least not one like we do, and who aren't even mammals, like Asari are, are capable of finding Asari attractive.

I think these two things tell us that even if a man is gay that he would still find Asari sexually attractive.

I normally wouldn't be this pedantic but since the people who made the list are trying to be as true to the lore as they can I think it's something worth pointing out. Hopefully this will reach them somehow.

I think that this would make more sense if asari appeared to possess whatever sexual traits whoever they were interacting with found attractive (say Liara appeared to a straight femshep as having male traits) . However, there is nothing to really indicate that they appear as anything other than women (though it is hinted that they can appear as different species - like in the bar on Illium, but not sure if this is just a mental thing or whatever).  I don't think homosexual men find women sexually attractive under any circumstances. if they did, they would be either bisexual or hetrosexual.  A bisexual femshep could be attracted to Kaidan and Liara.

There's actually been studies that gay men don't like shemale porn, and that majority of them are viewed by straight men. Mainy because they contain female traits that men find attractive.

So I doubt a gay man would be attracted by a creature that looks like a woman, unless said person already found such traits attractive.

[AVPen]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

I can't speak for the rest of us who edit the Document, but for me personally, I'm sticking with what's already been established in the canon: that the asari are a mono-gendered, all female species, Hendel Mitra was established as a homosexual in Ascension, and that the idea of a homosexual human male becoming sexually attracted to an alien that resembles a human female is utterly ludicrous. <_<

Never mind the fact that Dietz had either no f***ing clue that Hendel was gay (because he didn't read the previous novel/s) or he did and just didn't care cause he was gonna write Hendel as being straight for whatever reason.

Modifié par AVPen, 04 février 2012 - 01:21 .

[Ironstone828]

About time. Me and the folks at Mass Effect Wiki have been pushing long and hard for this outcome for the past few days.

[izmirtheastarach]

Yuoaman wrote...

I'm both the main admin and the man admin - it depends on the day of the week.

DOHOHO.

Hey. hey. chut up.

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Also that Asari is that Salarians  step-daughter. The Salarian mentions how she, the Asari, doesn't have  many memories of  her father because he died when she was young and she says that the whole reason she went with him on the trip was because she thinks of him, the Salarian, as her father.

So as to this off-topic argument, I AM.....IN FACT....FACTUALLY....WRONG.

Whoops.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 01:18 .

[Zack_Nero]

Well, their are some mistakes, but it is still a good read. However, if their is going to be a lot of changes in the new book, then I might think about buying it.

[Yuoaman]

AVPen wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

I can't speak for the rest of us who edit the Document, but for me personally, I'm sticking with what's already been established in the canon: that the asari are a mono-gendered, all female species, Hendel Mitra was established as a homosexual in Ascension, and that the idea of a homosexual human male becoming sexually attracted to an alien that resembles a human female is utterly ludicrous. <_<

Never mind the fact that Dietz had either no f***ing clue that Hendel was gay (because he didn't read the previous novel/s) or he did and just didn't care cause he was gonna write Hendel as being straight for whatever reason.

But... but... Dietz had to hammer into us the notion that asari are... attractive. He had no choice, it was in his contract.

[izmirtheastarach]

AVPen wrote...

I can't speak for the rest of us who edit the Document, but for me personally, I'm sticking with what's already been established in the canon: that the asari are a mono-gendered, all female species, Hendel Mitra was established as a homosexual in Ascension, and that the idea of a homosexual human male becoming sexually attracted to an alien that resembles a human female is utterly ludicrous. <_<

Never mind the fact that Dietz had either no f***ing clue that Hendel was gay (because he didn't read the previous novel/s) or he did and just didn't care cause he was gonna write Hendel as being straight for whatever reason.

They are also repeatedly reffered to as invoking the ideal human male hetero fantasy. That's why human dudes are so into them. Straight human dudes. Who like ladies.

Yuoaman wrote...
But... but... Dietz had to hammer into us the notion that asari are... attractive. He had no choice, it was in his contract.

We've certainly spent plenty of time discussing how Dietz fetishises the Asari to a point not seen ever before in the franchise.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 01:22 .

[XSpectreGreyX]

Oh thank God.

[Wulfram]

Yuoaman wrote...

That's like supporting Kai Leng's ogling of the asari, despite it being well established that he finds anything and everything alien to be repulsive.

Plus nowhere in the text does Dietz mention Hendel's sexuality, and there was no need to have him ogle asari - they're fetishized enough in other media.

I'm not arguing that Dietz was not either unaware of Hendel's sexuality or chose to retcon it.  edit: I'm also not necessarily saying that the Asari's near universal attractiveness makes sense.

While I don't think it would be against the lore for a gay man to find themselves ogling an Asari, you'd expect some acknowledgement of the oddity of the situation.

Modifié par Wulfram, 04 février 2012 - 01:27 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Well, good.

Now ME3 itself is all that remains to be revised. 

[izmirtheastarach]

Wulfram wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

That's like supporting Kai Leng's ogling of the asari, despite it being well established that he finds anything and everything alien to be repulsive.

Plus nowhere in the text does Dietz mention Hendel's sexuality, and there was no need to have him ogle asari - they're fetishized enough in other media.

I'm not arguing that Dietz was not either unaware of Hendel's sexuality or chose to retcon it.

While I don't think it would be against the lore for a gay man to find themselves ogling an Asari, you'd expect some acknowledgement of the oddity of the situation.

Exactly. It's what is so frustrating about so many of these errors. A bunch of them would be seriously softended if Dietz had taken two seconds to explain them. Instead he just presents a bunch of illogical things as facts, and expects us to buy them.

[The Love Runner]

Thank you for the apology, Bioware.

And I'd like to thank everyone on BSN for making their voices heard.

Modifié par Galactic Runner, 04 février 2012 - 01:33 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Galactic Runner wrote...
BOWLS OF CEREAL FOR EVERYONE!!

Trolling Bioware are we? 

[rapscallioness]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Mass Effect fans have been asking for a comment on recent concerns over Mass Effect: Deception. We have been listening and have the below response on the issue.

The teams at Del Rey and BioWare would like to extend our sincerest apologies to the Mass Effect fans for any errors and oversights made in the recent novel Mass Effect: Deception.  We are currently working on a number of changes that will appear in future editions of the novel. 

We would like to thank all Mass Effect fans for their passion and dedication to this ever-growing world, and assure them that we are listening and taking this matter very seriously.

Wow. Mad respect. That's one of the hardest things in the world to do. To admit a screw up happened.

This Tequila shot is for you......*whew..it burns soooo good*