1833 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

JamesFaith wrote...

I must disagree. He make a deal to write book from game universe so it's also his responsibility to study this universe before writing. Yes, editing process failed nasty here, but nothing change that it was him, who wrote this book. Also this is minimally his fourth book from game universe (Halo, Hitman, Starcraft), so he must know what is need to do. No mention that critized is also his grammar, style and logical mistakes in plot.

Well, perhaps he was accustomed to getting better feedback from people in his previous books.

I'm not saying that Mr Dietz is wholly without blame.  But I think the bulk of responsibility for the lore problems lies with the editing process.  Frankly, if the first they saw of it was too late to fix it on some of the more fundamental issues, they should have had the bravery to tell him to scrap it - and either have him start again or find a new author.

[eqzitara]

Editing process?
He didnt READ the source material lol. Can't honestly say he read all three me2 books with a straight face.

[InvincibleHero]

AVPen wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

I can't speak for the rest of us who edit the Document, but for me personally, I'm sticking with what's already been established in the canon: that the asari are a mono-gendered, all female species, Hendel Mitra was established as a homosexual in Ascension, and that the idea of a homosexual human male becoming sexually attracted to an alien that resembles a human female is utterly ludicrous. <_<

Never mind the fact that Dietz had either no f***ing clue that Hendel was gay (because he didn't read the previous novel/s) or he did and just didn't care cause he was gonna write Hendel as being straight for whatever reason.

Now hold on a minute just because he was portrayed to have sex with a man doesn't mean he never had encounters with women in his past, could not strike up interest in women, or is just bisexual and always was.
 
After all people change and what has been shown in movies, games, and novels is not an absolute arbiter of something as silly as character canon that many rave about because you absolutely must prove the opposite as untrue with complete certainty. Gay men have publicly proclaimed to be cured and consider themselves monagamous heterosexuals and people that have led a hetero life have come oout as gay. The door swings both ways.

Canon is what the writers decide and it can change to suit them. It might not be good writing when they do so but it is their right to do so.

[Atakuma]

matt-bassist wrote...

Take a wild guess who ain't gonna be contacted to write Mass Effect Deception 2... *chuckle*

Bioware have obviously learned from their mistakes and the next novel will be written by a professional like Stephanie Meyer.

Modifié par Atakuma, 04 février 2012 - 02:07 .

[Yuoaman]

InvincibleHero wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I was specifically refering to the people who made this list: https://docs.google....o/edit?hl=en_US

The people who seem to be the driving force behind all this and who have the ability to update the document to reflect new information.

I have no idea whether any of them browse these forums or not but even if they do the idea that they'd see my post in a thread this large is ridiculous. I do hope though that one of them may stumble upon it or that someone who does know how to contact someone to update the list may decide to forward my post onto them.

I can't speak for the rest of us who edit the Document, but for me personally, I'm sticking with what's already been established in the canon: that the asari are a mono-gendered, all female species, Hendel Mitra was established as a homosexual in Ascension, and that the idea of a homosexual human male becoming sexually attracted to an alien that resembles a human female is utterly ludicrous. <_<

Never mind the fact that Dietz had either no f***ing clue that Hendel was gay (because he didn't read the previous novel/s) or he did and just didn't care cause he was gonna write Hendel as being straight for whatever reason.

Now hold on a minute just because he was portrayed to have sex with a man doesn't mean he never had encounters with women in his past, could not strike up interest in women, or is just bisexual and always was.
 
After all people change and what has been shown in movies, games, and novels is not an absolute arbiter of something as silly as character canon that many rave about because you absolutely must prove the opposite as untrue with complete certainty. Gay men have publicly proclaimed to be cured and consider themselves monagamous heterosexuals and people that have led a hetero life have come oout as gay. The door swings both ways.

Canon is what the writers decide and it can change to suit them. It might not be good writing when they do so but it is their right to do so.

What, there was never a scene where Hendle had sex with anyone. Kahlee just said that she wasn't his type, and that the guy she was sleeping with was more to his liking - bisexuality implies attraction to both men and women.

And sexual preference is not a disease to be cured, I don't even know if you're serious right now.

[izmirtheastarach]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, perhaps he was accustomed to getting better feedback from people in his previous books.

I'm not saying that Mr Dietz is wholly without blame.  But I think the bulk of responsibility for the lore problems lies with the editing process.  Frankly, if the first they saw of it was too late to fix it on some of the more fundamental issues, they should have had the bravery to tell him to scrap it - and either have him start again or find a new author.

That's totally fine. On the lore problems, the final resposibility is with Bioware. However, even without those errors, the book is terrible. It's poorly written, the characters are flat, and the story is pointless. It is not a good book. If it was not a Mass Effect novel, it would not sell more then a few thousand copies.

I've said it at least 5 times in the other thread. The market is a meritocracy. If the man can no longer write a quality novel, then maybe he needs to think about getting out of the game.

[Bluko]

Wulfram wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Wonder how William.C.Dietz is taking the news?

If I was him, I'd be pissed off.  His reputation has been trashed for mistakes which are in a large part not his own.  While he could no doubt have done a better job, he's fundamentally reliant on the editing process to pick up on lore goofs before the product is released.

Yep. This is more a collective fault then anything. If you hire someone new to do something you need to properly oversee them or until you have given them everything they need to do the job on their own. Otherwise you are just as much to blame for their mistakes.

[I can Hackett]

in my opinion Hendel Mitra was never confirmed to be homosexual it was suggestive at best

[AVPen]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Kotaku report

http://kotaku.com/mass-effect

lol.... You've gotta love the image they came up with for it: 

 

[Yuoaman]

I can Hackett wrote...

in my opinion Hendel Mitra was never confirmed to be homosexual it was suggestive at best

Kahlee and Hendel were pretty close, I'm sure she had a pretty good idea as to what way he swung in such matters.

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Well, perhaps he was accustomed to getting better feedback from people in his previous books.

I'm not saying that Mr Dietz is wholly without blame.  But I think the bulk of responsibility for the lore problems lies with the editing process.  Frankly, if the first they saw of it was too late to fix it on some of the more fundamental issues, they should have had the bravery to tell him to scrap it - and either have him start again or find a new author.

That's totally fine. On the lore problems, the final resposibility is with Bioware. However, even without those errors, the book is terrible. It's poorly written, the characters are flat, and the story is pointless. It is not a good book. If it was not a Mass Effect novel, it would not sell more then a few thousand copies.

I've said it at least 5 times in the other thread. The market is a meritocracy. If the man can no longer write a quality novel, then maybe he needs to think about getting out of the game.

Who needs poignant death scenes when you can have gyrocycles?

No one, that's who.

[JamesFaith]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, perhaps he was accustomed to getting better feedback from people in his previous books.

I'm not saying that Mr Dietz is wholly without blame.  But I think the bulk of responsibility for the lore problems lies with the editing process.  Frankly, if the first they saw of it was too late to fix it on some of the more fundamental issues, they should have had the bravery to tell him to scrap it - and either have him start again or find a new author.

We could agree on failing of editing process. Why this book come out is mystery now. I personally think that they need connect book with ME3. ME3 is finale of series and it's logical to assume, that main antagonists TIM and Leng will die here (I didn't read leaked spoilers, it's just my opinion). But what then do with book, where main part of plot is killing someone who obviously must survive? Also writting whole new book will take few months and 2 years hole in this kind of series should be deadly. Someone probably said we will risk it and they failed.

And one more thing to Dietz. He public new book from his own original series this November, which means that he work simultaneously on two books. Seems to me obvious which book got the right care and which one was just "source of easy money". 

Modifié par JamesFaith, 04 février 2012 - 02:17 .

[AVPen]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I was him, I'd be pissed off.  His reputation has been trashed for  mistakes which are in a large part not his own.  While he could no doubt have done a better job, he's fundamentally reliant on the editing  process to pick up on lore goofs before the product is released.

Every mistake in this book is his. How do you figure they are not? He himself said on day 2 of of this whole thing that he felt it was his responsibility to read all of the books and play all the game. This is what the man does for a living. If he can't do a good job, then he doesn't deserve that living.

Bioware has to take resposibility, because it's their property. But there is plenty of blame to go around.

Read one of his quotes the other day that pretty much summed that up:

"It's also a good idea to make sure that you receive a copy of everything that could conceivably be of assistance to you. That includes copies of the "bible," previous novelizations if any, tie-in publications of all sorts, DVDs, loose artwork or anything else that you can lay your hands on. Odds are that it will offer inspiration, help you describe what things/people/creatures look like, and generally keep your head in the game. "

"So play the game a lot, pause to take copious notes, and take time to think about the story that didn't reach the screen." -William C. Dietz 

The irony astounds, I know. <_<

Modifié par AVPen, 04 février 2012 - 02:16 .

[eqzitara]

Yuoaman wrote...

I can Hackett wrote...

in my opinion Hendel Mitra was never confirmed to be homosexual it was suggestive at best

Kahlee and Hendel were pretty close, I'm sure she had a pretty good idea as to what way he swung in such matters.

Agreed, and the author would def. mention something about it....

I like it how kaiden and hendel were both gay and known to be from a "top secret biotic facility ran by the alliance". Which made for some interesting theories.... Then deception just destroys it.

Modifié par eqzitara, 04 février 2012 - 02:19 .

[izmirtheastarach]

[quote]AVPen wrote...

Bioware has to take resposibility, because it's their property. But there is plenty of blame to go around.[/quote]
Read one of his quotes the other day that pretty much summed that up:

[quote]"It's also a good idea to make sure that you receive a copy of everything that could conceivably be of assistance to you. That includes copies of the "bible," previous novelizations if any, tie-in publications of all sorts, DVDs, loose artwork or anything else that you can lay your hands on. Odds are that it will offer inspiration, help you describe what things/people/creatures look like, and generally keep your head in the game. "

"So play the game a lot, pause to take copious notes, and take time to think about the story that didn't reach the screen." -William C. Dietz [/quote]
The irony astounds, I know. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie][/quote]


Thanks for putting up the original quote. And that came to us as a response from an email sent to him by a fellow BSN member. That's what he said when confronted with the errors.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 02:22 .

[InvincibleHero]

Yuoaman wrote...


What, there was never a scene where Hendle had sex with anyone. Kahlee just said that she wasn't his type, and that the guy she was sleeping with was more to his liking - bisexuality implies attraction to both men and women.

And sexual preference is not a disease to be cured, I don't even know if you're serious right now.

Well those aren't my words there are documentaries and articles of people that say religion cured them. I have always believed people can choose to do anything they want.

What you wrote suggests not that he wouldn't find any woman attractive. He just didn't find one specific female to his liking Kahlee.

So he never had sex with a man yet it is assumed he is flat out homosexual? There are problems with that and my reasons are part of that.

[izmirtheastarach]

Getting a little off topic here. This is not really the place for that discussion.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 02:23 .

[eqzitara]

William dietz twitter.
http://twitter.com/wcdietz
MASS EFFECT DECEPTION is no. 6 on Barnes & Noble's Bookseller's picks for February. http://www.tor.com/b...s-for-february.
1 Feb
Hes so proud = )

[Foxtrot 212]

Is it bad that the more I have thought about the situation the more I rushed too order a copy?

[izmirtheastarach]

eqzitara wrote...

William dietz twitter.
http://twitter.com/wcdietz
MASS EFFECT DECEPTION is no. 6 on Barnes & Noble's Bookseller's picks for February. http://www.tor.com/b...s-for-february.
1 Feb
Hes so proud = )

Yeah, that was on odd one. Why he would bother to tweet that to his 28 followers is beyond me.

[Yuoaman]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...


What, there was never a scene where Hendle had sex with anyone. Kahlee just said that she wasn't his type, and that the guy she was sleeping with was more to his liking - bisexuality implies attraction to both men and women.

And sexual preference is not a disease to be cured, I don't even know if you're serious right now.

Well those aren't my words there are documentaries and articles of people that say religion cured them. I have always believed people can choose to do anything they want.

What you wrote suggests not that he wouldn't find any woman attractive. He just didn't find one specific female to his liking Kahlee.

So he never had sex with a man yet it is assumed he is flat out homosexual? There are problems with that and my reasons are part of that.

What? I never said that, I said there was no scene in the book where he had sex with a man, I don't know what he was doing two weeks before the events of Ascension.

[eqzitara]

Foxtrot 212 wrote...

Is it bad that the more I have thought about the situation the more I rushed too order a copy?

Its like a bad car accident..... You cant help but stare.

[JamesFaith]

Foxtrot 212 wrote...

Is it bad that the more I have thought about the situation the more I rushed too order a copy?

Book version of Stockholm syndrome.

[TheInvicibleCandyBar]

So how are we supposed to tell the rewrite apart from the original? Mass Effect: Deception (The Totally Better Version!)
Also a bit off topic but, @eqzitara, Brandon Sanderson is my favorite author and it would be epic if Bioware got him to write the book!