1833 réponses à ce sujet

[NVGE]

Words are wind... But for now I'll retain my faith in BioWare.

[WhiteKnyght]

AVPen wrote...

Lasien wrote...

He could actually be talking about credibility with the populous, not the council. Many humans agree with cerberus because they are pro-human. If some of their experiments were to come to light, people might not believe them so readily.

Read his post again -  he says "a worsened reputation with the council".

I'm also curious where this whole "many humans agree with Cerberus" idea popped up, cause I don't recall ever seeing or hearing that in ME2 or the comic series (in fact, the only time I recall seeing that was in Deception.... when Dietz choose to give Cerberus a PR department that employed "flesh-and-blood storytellers" dedicated to telling others about the glories of humanity....)

The Council allows Cerberus to move freely within Citadel Space. Hence why the Normandy SR2, which has the Cerberus emblem branded on it's hull, can dock on the Citadel and other areas within Citadel space. Quarian systems were even able to tell that the Normandy was detected as a Cerberus vessel.

Until now, there hasn't been much solid evidence against Cerberus. But Paul Grayson is what you call a smoking gun. Giving the Council a legitimate reason to ban Cerberus from moving through Citadel Space would be an unwelcome nuisance

[izmirtheastarach]

JamesFaith wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I just feel like constantly repeating the same thing again and again.

I don't feel like I should have to explain the book to myself externally. The book is supposed to be explaining itself to me. If it doesn't make sense on the page, then it needs to.

Maybe because you really repeating it again and again. Don't forget that we discuss about every mistake in last thread, so you only mostly repeating arguments once said.

Yeah. I guess people new to the discussion want to have them, but those of us who were in that thread for the last week have argued this to death already. You are correct.

[Lasien]

JamesFaith wrote...

Lasien wrote...

Just wondering, as I haven't read the book. Does the book say you can see their faces, or does it say their faces are uncovered? Because you could make a pressurized suit with a see-through headpiece made of pressurized plactic or glass.

I found this quote.

Hobar's facial expression if any was hidden by the mask which covered most of his face. 
 

It sounds like the majority of the errors were a result of someone who wasn't very familiar with the ME universe writing on a tight deadline and lax proofreading. In other words - the book was pushed through with a leaning towards speed rather than quality - to coincide with release.

[didymos1120]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that it's a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.  His behavior in Deception is an inexplicable and very out of character reversal.

Modifié par didymos1120, 04 février 2012 - 04:13 .

[SojournerN7]

I'm glad I haven't got this book yet then. A toothbrush. Really.
Oh Drew, where art thou?

[AVPen]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The Council allows Cerberus to move freely within Citadel Space. Hence why the Normandy SR2, which has the Cerberus emblem branded on it's hull, can dock on the Citadel and other areas within Citadel space. Quarian systems were even able to tell that the Normandy was detected as a Cerberus vessel.

Until now, there hasn't been much solid evidence against Cerberus. But Paul Grayson is what you call a smoking gun. Giving the Council a legitimate reason to ban Cerberus from moving through Citadel Space would be an unwelcome nuisance

Two Words: Commander Shepard... If Shepard was not involved whatsoever, the Council would never allow a blatant Cerberus-identified ship on the Citadel.

And what's this about "not much solid evidence" against Cerberus? Did you even play Mass Effect 2? The Council and Alliance are greatly aware of Cerberus's past actions (killing Alliance admirals, breeding Rachni and Husks for an army, kidnapping kids for bioic "death camps", the entire Thresher Maw incident on Akuze, etc.), hence why they've classified Cerberus as a terrorist organization and an "avowed enemy of the Council". <_<

Modifié par AVPen, 04 février 2012 - 04:22 .

[JamesFaith]

Lasien wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Lasien wrote...

Just wondering, as I haven't read the book. Does the book say you can see their faces, or does it say their faces are uncovered? Because you could make a pressurized suit with a see-through headpiece made of pressurized plactic or glass.

I found this quote.

Hobar's facial expression if any was hidden by the mask which covered most of his face. 
 

It sounds like the majority of the errors were a result of someone who wasn't very familiar with the ME universe writing on a tight deadline and lax proofreading. In other words - the book was pushed through with a leaning towards speed rather than quality - to coincide with release.

Actually was deadline changed two or three times. If I remember correct this book was originally planned on end of summer or such, so DIetz got about more 4, 5 months. But I also know that he work on book from his own universe which was release on November, so he maybe neglected ME prior to it, but this is only my opinion.

[Lasien]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Lasien wrote...

He could actually be talking about credibility with the populous, not the council. Many humans agree with cerberus because they are pro-human. If some of their experiments were to come to light, people might not believe them so readily.

Read his post again -  he says "a worsened reputation with the council".

I'm also curious where this whole "many humans agree with Cerberus" idea popped up, cause I don't recall ever seeing or hearing that in ME2 or the comic series (in fact, the only time I recall seeing that was in Deception.... when Dietz choose to give Cerberus a PR department that employed "flesh-and-blood storytellers" dedicated to telling others about the glories of humanity....)

The Council allows Cerberus to move freely within Citadel Space. Hence why the Normandy SR2, which has the Cerberus emblem branded on it's hull, can dock on the Citadel and other areas within Citadel space. Quarian systems were even able to tell that the Normandy was detected as a Cerberus vessel.

Until now, there hasn't been much solid evidence against Cerberus. But Paul Grayson is what you call a smoking gun. Giving the Council a legitimate reason to ban Cerberus from moving through Citadel Space would be an unwelcome nuisance

Sorry about that, I didn't catch the "anderson was talking to the council" part. My point about the general populus still stands, though. The majority of your crew in ME2 is made up of recently joined people. And while it can be argued that they joined for shepard, they still had to agree with Cerberus somewhat to join. And many races are unhappy with the Council, as well. Including humans.

[WhiteKnyght]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that its a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.

TIM isn't negotiating anything when he has his cells doing projects for him

And that doesn't mean every Cerberus operative is killed on sight. They could have been referring to the fact that a trusted Spectre was cooperating with their enemy is treason.

Well what really motivates TIM's actions is anybody's guess. I'm half convinced that he's been indoctrinated ever since he got zapped by that Reaper artifact and got his kooky eyes. The Reapers could be leaving him his free will like they did Saren, but are poised to totally enslave his mind should he become a serious threat or asset to them.

[PARAGON87]

I'm about three chapters into this book, and still I see a couple of errors, I kind of overlooked them intentionally to forgive Dietz's new foray into the Mass Effect universe, but once I got to the part about "Each area of the Citadel is tailored by each individual species", I got to thinking, Isn't that the work by the keepers? They rearrange the Citadel unpredictably, and not to the needs of the host of that section?  By the way, where the heck are the keepers?

Now I see that this error is one of a number of errors in this tragedy of a book.

Basically, from all the errors I've seen in this document, I'm going to shelf this book until a more accurate and comprehensive edition of Deception is released.

Kudos to all the forumites that made BioWare turn their attention where it's needed!  Bring back Drew!

Modifié par PARAGON87, 04 février 2012 - 04:23 .

[Lasien]

JamesFaith wrote...

Lasien wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Lasien wrote...

Just wondering, as I haven't read the book. Does the book say you can see their faces, or does it say their faces are uncovered? Because you could make a pressurized suit with a see-through headpiece made of pressurized plactic or glass.

I found this quote.

Hobar's facial expression if any was hidden by the mask which covered most of his face. 
 

It sounds like the majority of the errors were a result of someone who wasn't very familiar with the ME universe writing on a tight deadline and lax proofreading. In other words - the book was pushed through with a leaning towards speed rather than quality - to coincide with release.

Actually was deadline changed two or three times. If I remember correct this book was originally planned on end of summer or such, so DIetz got about more 4, 5 months. But I also know that he work on book from his own universe which was release on November, so he maybe neglected ME prior to it, but this is only my opinion.

Yeah, sometimes having several projects running parallel doesn't turn out very well...  I know from experience.

Still, those glaring mistakes should have been caught by the proofreaders, if not by him. Regardless of whether they worked for the publisher or Bioware, their job was to know the lore and correct it - especially since it was a writer new to the universe. The only reason I can think that the book got through is a similar situation I was in - I was in a play in which the main actor was playing the character as angry, no matter what the scene called for. The directors tried several times to get him to stop, but he would take the criticism like he understood, then go right back to playing every scene as angry. The directors eventually gave up.

Also, some of the smaller problems sound like they would have made sense if they had been explained better.

[izmirtheastarach]

PARAGON87 wrote...

I'm about three chapters into this book, and still I see a couple of errors, I kind of overlooked them intentionally to forgive Dietz's new foray into the Mass Effect universe, but once I got to the part about "Each area of the Citadel is tailored by each individual species", I got to thinking, Isn't that the work by the keepers? They rearrange the Citadel unpredictably, and not to the needs of the host of that section?  By the way, where the heck are the keepers?

Now I see that this error is one of a number of errors in this tragedy of a book.

Basically, from all the errors I've seen in this document, I'm going to shelf this book until a more accurate and comprehensive edition of Deception is released.

Kudos to all the forumites that made BioWare turn their attention where it's needed!  Bring back Drew!

I miss Drew.

[PARAGON87]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I miss Drew.

I hope he takes a break from writing all that TOR nonsense and edits the new edition of Deception.  As well as writing any other ME books down the road.

Or at least let Walters take over.

EDIT: By nonsense I mean anything not-ME related.

Modifié par PARAGON87, 04 février 2012 - 04:38 .

[Yuoaman]

I know this is from a few pages back, but Grey Nayr: Evolution is the comic series concerning TIM, Invasion concerns Aria and Omega.

[dreman9999]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that it's a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.  His behavior in Deception is an inexplicable and very out of character reversal.

Ican understand your point but TIM  is not conserned with Cerberus imagewith alians. He's consern about Cerberus image with humanity. Humanity has a doulbe edge sword with aliens, some hate them  some like them. Cerberus wants to influence the "earth first" crowd. How can he do that if info about him experamenting on humans is exposed?

[Yuoaman]

dreman9999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that it's a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.  His behavior in Deception is an inexplicable and very out of character reversal.

Ican understand your point but TIM  is not conserned with Cerberus imagewith alians. He's consern about Cerberus image with humanity. Humanity has a doulbe edge sword with aliens, some hate them  some like them. Cerberus wants to influence the "earth first" crowd. How can he do that if info about him experamenting on humans is exposed?

TIM really doesn't seem like the kind of guy to be concerned with being seen as the bad guy, he seems to sleep fine at night.

[Morducai]

I really don't get what all the fuss is about. Bioware already ****ed up with the mass effect canon on me2 but no one complained about that. Besides, I have read the books and they are awful.

[Yuoaman]

Morducai wrote...

I really don't get what all the fuss is about. Bioware already ****ed up with the mass effect canon on me2 but no one complained about that. Besides, I have read the books and they are awful.

Both statements are your opinions, many people obviously don't share them.

[Heimdall]

dreman9999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that it's a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.  His behavior in Deception is an inexplicable and very out of character reversal.

Ican understand your point but TIM  is not conserned with Cerberus imagewith alians. He's consern about Cerberus image with humanity. Humanity has a doulbe edge sword with aliens, some hate them  some like them. Cerberus wants to influence the "earth first" crowd. How can he do that if info about him experamenting on humans is exposed?

He didn't seem to be bothered by it in Retribution.  Besides, Grayson's corpse can't be directly linked to Cerberus.

[Yuoaman]

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that it's a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.  His behavior in Deception is an inexplicable and very out of character reversal.

Ican understand your point but TIM  is not conserned with Cerberus imagewith alians. He's consern about Cerberus image with humanity. Humanity has a doulbe edge sword with aliens, some hate them  some like them. Cerberus wants to influence the "earth first" crowd. How can he do that if info about him experamenting on humans is exposed?

He didn't seem to be bothered by it in Retribution.  Besides, Grayson's corpse can't be directly linked to Cerberus.

Yeah, they didn't brand the body with the Cerberus logo... unless they did.

Oh, dammit TIM.

[izmirtheastarach]

He really has no credibility with anyone in council space, outside of his own people and allies.

[SolidisusSnake1]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well I can see why the Illusive Man doesn't want his dirty laundry being made public.

Damage was already done.  Stealing the body makes it even worse.  Hell, the Council meeting scene even has a line about how Cerberus is known for its cruelty.  There is no credibility to worry about.  Also, this from ME2:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

And this:

"We are in a difficult position, Shepard. You are working for Cerberus -- an avowed enemy of the Council. This is treason, a capital offense."

Not to mention, in TIM's final POV in Retribution, he thinks that it's a good thing Anderson will be doing something about the Reapers.  And the only reason Anderson would be able to actually do something?  Because he has the body.  This is why TIM opts to recover the experimental data from Aria.  Cerberus' work can continue, and Anderson can do his thing too.  His behavior in Deception is an inexplicable and very out of character reversal.

Thank you for making the point I made a few pages back, every single one of TIM's actions in Deception is completely out of character. TIM is not concerned with Cerberus' credibility or it's perception by aliens, so it makes no sense for him to want to recover Graysons body or kill Admiral Anderson the one guy who actually believes in the Reapers and is trying to protect Earth from them. And the whole Graysons body makes no sense what so all beause if they kidnap the body then it is OBVIOUS that Cerberus did it, before all he had to do was deny it, but by kidnapping the body it screames WE DID IT! Also kidnapping the body doesnt get rid of the DAMNING evidence that they already have on the body. In the book it is stated that they have pictures of the body, videos, and several autoposy reports and examinations by professionals detailing everything that was done to the body. So did TIM magically get rid of all of that evidence as well when he took the body?

IT MAKES NO SENSE, I CANNOT EVEN,

[Eski.Moe]

For most, the damage is already done. Especially for those who actually bought the book. The fact that it was allowed to be released with its multitude of lore errors and all around shoddy writing is telling enough. The premise of the story itself is flawed so if by 'changes', you mean 'complete rewrite' then that's pretty cool. There really should be a measure of compensation or 'reward' for those who already purchased Deception, even if it's just receiving a revised copy for free.

Still, I'm thankful that Bioware is actually taking the effort to go back and 'fix' the book. It's something that many developers would not even bother with so it's much appreciated. However, I'm personally remaining cautiously optimistic about the whole thing. I'm not yet convinced that we'll see the major changes necessary. We'll see what happens!