1833 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesFaith]

Xeranx wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't see why you're all placing the blame on Dietz, he wasn't solely responsible.

Yeah. He definitely should have done far more research than he clearly did. But at the same time, BioWare shouldn't have let something so riddled with such glaring issues through. It's a mix of him not doing his homework and the powers that be seeming to just rabber stamp it through without even giving it a good going-over.

Still, he's an awful writer, lore inconsistencies aside. It shocks me that he's a professional given how absolutely terrible he is. I've commonly heard people saying, "it reads like a bad fan fiction" but I'll take that a step further and say I've read more fanfics that are better than this than ones that aren't. Not just Mass Effect, but across the board. Though perhaps I'm bias in that regard, as the writer of an ME fanfic myself (which, everybody, feel free to give a go, btw! ).

Before it goes any further I think this post demands a serious, serious (SERIOUS;)) comment. 

Who are you to stipulate who is a bad (awful as you say) or good writer?  Have you published any work of your own.  He's a professional.  He knows what he's doing better than you.

Well, I'm writer. I'm writing and publishing more then ten years and I must absolutely agree withTerror K. Deception was awfully witten, plot is weak and dialogs sometimes look like from D-rate action movie. Dietz may be professional, but with this book he chose probably weakest moment of his career.

[SolidisusSnake1]

Xeranx wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't see why you're all placing the blame on Dietz, he wasn't solely responsible.

Yeah. He definitely should have done far more research than he clearly did. But at the same time, BioWare shouldn't have let something so riddled with such glaring issues through. It's a mix of him not doing his homework and the powers that be seeming to just rabber stamp it through without even giving it a good going-over.

Still, he's an awful writer, lore inconsistencies aside. It shocks me that he's a professional given how absolutely terrible he is. I've commonly heard people saying, "it reads like a bad fan fiction" but I'll take that a step further and say I've read more fanfics that are better than this than ones that aren't. Not just Mass Effect, but across the board. Though perhaps I'm bias in that regard, as the writer of an ME fanfic myself (which, everybody, feel free to give a go, btw! ).

Before it goes any further I think this post demands a serious, serious (SERIOUS;)) comment. 

Who are you to stipulate who is a bad (awful as you say) or good writer?  Have you published any work of your own.  He's a professional.  He knows what he's doing better than you.

That's a dumb thing to say. One does not have to publish a book to know whether or not someone is a bad writer. That's like saying you shouldn't critique movies because you have never made one. Dietz is a bad writer. The plot is inconsistent and totally meaningless, the characters are all bland and show no emotion, the dialouge is very basic, and he takes no time to describe a scene.

So yes he is a bad writer, at least for this book.

[PXXL]

What did del Ray say.. "Go play a video game"?

Modifié par PXXL, 04 février 2012 - 06:32 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Don't most children learn how to identify quality writing when they are in grade school? It's not really that hard. Certainly anyone who has been reading for most of there lives is qualified. And as a consumer of written works, every one of us has the right to judge the quality of a book.

And the consensus is that this book is terrible.

[Yuoaman]

The book is, objectively, awful.

The language is overly simple, the descriptions are odd, and there is no emotion to be found. These are all things that Dietz is at fault for, it was Bioware's job to ensure the work fit into the Mass Effect universe and it was his to write a compelling story. He did no such thing.

[Thargorichiban]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Don't most children learn how to identify quality writing when they are in grade school? It's not really that hard. Certainly anyone who has been reading for most of there lives is qualified. And as a consumer of written works, every one of us has the right to judge the quality of a book.

And the consensus is that this book is terrible.

Mass Effect Deception Ratings

Amazon.com - 1.2 out of 5 - www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-Deception-William-Dietz/product-reviews/0345520734/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_img

Amazon.ca - 1 out of 5 - www.amazon.ca/product-reviews/0345520734/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt

Amazon.co.uk - 1.5 out of 5 - www.amazon.co.uk/Mass-Effect-Deception/product-reviews/1841499854/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt

Barnes and Noble - 2.5 out of 5 - www.barnesandnoble.com/reviews/Mass-Effect%2FWilliam-C-Dietz/1100643308

Goodreads - 3 out of 5 - www.goodreads.com/book/show/10390172-mass-effect

[izmirtheastarach]

Yeah, that's the consensus we created.

[Luigitornado]

Wait....so do I have to buy another copy? Or can people who already bought it get a new one for free?!

[Thargorichiban]

Luigitornado wrote...

Wait....so do I have to buy another copy? Or can people who already bought it get a new one for free?!

So far they haven't mentioned anything about refunds... So at the moment unfortunately it looks like you'll have to buy another copy.

Best bet is to return your copy ASAP.

[Luigitornado]

Thargorichiban wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Wait....so do I have to buy another copy? Or can people who already bought it get a new one for free?!

So far they haven't mentioned anything about refunds... So at the moment unfortunately it looks like you'll have to buy another copy.

Best bet is to return your copy ASAP.

Too much trouble for 8 dollars. I'll recycle it and by  another one if I have too.

[JoeLaTurkey]

What the hell is wrong with Goodreads?

[dantares83]

i have stop reading the book. it quite ridiculous. may i know what is the cereal killer about?

kai leng and hendel ogling at Asari are totally out of character

[Mann42]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

nexworks wrote...

If Casey Hudson had actually read the book, this would never have happened in the first place. His twitter account is primarily used to promote things. Likely it's someone on the community management team who makes those posts.

Quality control over the game is a completely seperate issue. I've seen nothing that provides any indication that it's not pretty high for ME3. The book comes out of a completely different department, and likely was not read by any of the people who are the primary architects of the games themselves. You'll not that we've not seen any mention of them book from members of the team since the date of release.

So it's not only weak franchise control, it's dishonest too? Hopefully at least the marketing representative that uses Casey's twitter actually read it, and they just happened to have no taste.

Listen, I'm sure you're right about ME3, and that it's going to be consistent to the previous lore. I have no doubt that the game is going to be of much higher quality than the book. Dietz doesn't really have a great career track record, and has always been a B-List writer. (My opinion, but I can't find anything he's written that didn't sound like it was slapped together by a D average high school student in a rush to finish because he has a party to go to). 

However, it doesn't bode well for the future of the Mass Effect franchise as a whole. The fact that they clearly do not have any actual real writers or editors in their corporate franchise department, and apparently thought they could rely on a book publisher with no stake in the franchise to act as their final editor, shows a blatant disrespect for the material, and a complete misunderstanding of the strengths of their property and their community's attachment to it.

I'm hopeful that this debacle causes them to hire some more writers and editors, and put them on a cross-media franchise team to maintain the consistency and integrity of the franchise. Unfortunately, most intellectual properties that reach a certain level of success put less and less effort into maintaining continuity. Integrity is replaced with cash grabs. Continuity is hard, so once most properties reach a certain size, they just stop trying very hard.

This book is just one symptom of the problem, but it is the canary in the coal mine. If they truly mean what they say, that they take this very seriously, then hopefully they'll hire a few lorekeepers to edit and protect their franchise so that, regardless of the new media they want to translate the material to, it still maintains the integrity and consistency of the property.

[Thargorichiban]

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

What the hell is wrong with Goodreads?

I'm not sure. Several people just gave it 5 stars. Somebody really needs to post this announcement by bioware and Del Ray there.

[ParkerArt]

nexworks wrote...
 there will be a PR bloodbath after the game is released

Dragon Age 2 style or the full on EVE staff layoff style?

[Blacklash93]

Seboist wrote...
What he said was fact.

 
Sure. I guess whatever supports your agenda of forum heckling and redundant criticisms to insult Bioware is fact. Other opinions be damned.

Such (il)logic is strong with the TIM thread.

ME2 is a semi-reboot with a loose continuity with ME1 at best. They completely retconned the ME1 ending where the council and human councilor recognized the reaper threat and were preparing for war and completely rewrote Liara's character.

ME2 and ME3 were designed to be to present themselves as stand-alone games as well as sequels.

The council never said they believed the Reaper threat even at the end of ME1. Anderson believes you and I don't think Udina ever says he didn't in ME2.

Two years passed and Liara was very upset at losing a friend and deteremined to get him back. She was vengeful and angry. Things like that given time can completely change a person. It was a big change, but it did make sense and was entirely intentional by the writers.

I don't see what the fuss with Deception is all about either. ME3 itself disgards established lore like Cerberus being crippled in Retribution and has things like the EDI sexbot that go hand and hand with Kai Leng the cereal killer and vase urinator.

TIM is clever and Cerberus does have a new, very rich investor by the time of ME3. And I still can't see why you can't look past EDI's body and see opportunities for the character to expand herself. Just goes to show how people aren't capable of looking past physical appearance and the nerd-pandering to see what's in the character.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 04 février 2012 - 07:46 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Thargorichiban wrote...

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

What the hell is wrong with Goodreads?

I'm not sure. Several people just gave it 5 stars. Somebody really needs to post this announcement by bioware and Del Ray there.

They let people rate it before it was released. It's a dumb system.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm gonna have to agree with Seboist that the worse the novel is the better it is as a tie-in for ME3.

And you continue to prove you have nothing to contribute to this forum other than starting arguments and throwing petty and redundant insults.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 04 février 2012 - 07:48 .

[Luigitornado]

dantares83 wrote...

i have stop reading the book. it quite ridiculous. may i know what is the cereal killer about?

kai leng and hendel ogling at Asari are totally out of character

Maybe so, but it isn't that extreme.

A note that Kai Leng winks at an Asari dancer, and another one that Hendel and Anderson were watching Asari dancers on Omega.

[Xeranx]

JamesFaith wrote...

Well, I'm writer. I'm writing and publishing more then ten years and I must absolutely agree withTerror K. Deception was awfully witten, plot is weak and dialogs sometimes look like from D-rate action movie. Dietz may be professional, but with this book he chose probably weakest moment of his career.

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

That's a dumb thing to say. One does not have to publish a book to know whether or not someone is a bad writer. That's like saying you shouldn't critique movies because you have never made one. Dietz is a bad writer. The plot is inconsistent and totally meaningless, the characters are all bland and show no emotion, the dialouge is very basic, and he takes no time to describe a scene.

So yes he is a bad writer, at least for this book.

I thought about typing out "serious" five times to drive the point home, but thought two and an emphatic third with a smilie would do the job.  Damn you, text!

I made the comment, especially using Terror K's post, because he's come out on what he considers bad writing and people have used the same reasoning I posted to disagree with him.  Funny thing is, many agree with his point of view in this case.

My reply to Terror K's post was completely ironic.  Sorry it didn't carry.  Back to work for me...*grumble* five more years in the shed of learning to hone the art of the written word *grumble*.

[vs2k10]

Good to hear cause some of the mistakes are laughable just a shame ive already bought it
please just get drew karpyshyn to rewrite it.???

also bioware you are the best for listening to the feedback and deciding to act and change the book. Seriously it is appreciated.

Modifié par vs2k10, 04 février 2012 - 08:19 .

[behellmorph]

Wait a minute, do they just plan to correct a few inconsitencies like lack of Kinect Barriers or change parts of the plot and leave it as that?
Since they arn't gonna make this game non-canon then that means...that this book and it's plot was wanted all along, we were meant to have that stupid auction with TIM's DNA bullet, the funeral was meant to be, Hendel dying was meant to be. No, to fix this they have to change the whole plot. Gret Drew back and please don't let the editors do this, they arn't writers.

They can't trip up on the finish line now. Not when we had 3 great novels and if this remains as it this then the entire endeavour with the 3 other novels has pretty much lead up to a major screw up ie Deception.

[izmirtheastarach]

behellmorph wrote...

Wait a minute, do they just plan to correct a few inconsitencies like lack of Kinect Barriers or change parts of the plot and leave it as that?
Since they arn't gonna make this game non-canon then that means...that this book and it's plot was wanted all along, we were meant to have that stupid auction with TIM's DNA bullet, the funeral was meant to be, Hendel dying was meant to be. No, to fix this they have to change the whole plot. Gret Drew back and please don't let the editors do this, they arn't writers.

They can't trip up on the finish line now. Not when we had 3 great novels and if this remains as it this then the entire endeavour with the 3 other novels has pretty much lead up to a major screw up ie Deception.

The book, as it stands now, is not canon. The revised version may be. But we're going to have to wait and see, since we have no idea what is going to be in the book once they tool it.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 04 février 2012 - 08:52 .

[NPH11]

Xeranx wrote...
Before it goes any further I think this post demands a serious, serious (SERIOUS;)) comment. 

Who are you to stipulate who is a bad (awful as you say) or good writer?  Have you published any work of your own.  He's a professional.  He knows what he's doing better than you.

Oh, here we go, the ususal "Well, you haven't done anything better!" Argument.

The amount of books we've published does not correlate to our ability to criticize Dietz's writing ability. Just because we are not published authors, does not mean we don't have any writing ability or have ever taken any courses related to writing and/or studying novels (ie. Most high school level English courses). If the majority agree that the book is poorly written, that's enough causation to say that the book is poorly written. If nobody had any reason to complain, there would be no complaining.

I know that this is a poorly written book because I have read many other books, including those by Karpyshyn, that were much better written. I hate this stupid logic that people can't criticize if they haven't done any better. It's stupid and childish.

All of this is unneccessary of course as, in the Deception topic, there were a few people who were published authors who agreed that the book is poorly written.

[clennon8]

I've gone back and read samples from Dietz's other books. The guy just isn't a very good writer to begin with. That said, who the heck was the editor? Deception should never have been published in its current form.