Core_Commander wrote...
Well...
...over the years I've come to terms that lore can't last forever. Let a franchise live long enough and it'll start devouring itself, either when the writer tries to write after running out of ideas, or if too many people are let in on the fun and everybody gets to write their "cool" part, losing all coherency in the process.
-Agreed 100%
This entropy affects all - D&D, Planescape (the way they killed the line was... abominable), Vampire, Marvel universe, DC universe, Reboot of Marvel universe (Ultimates was amazing, U3... simply pathetic, and the X-Men ending was an atrocity), Naruto, Star Trek, Star Wars, Battletech, Bleach, Silent Hill, Warcraft... take your pick. It all goes downhill as the milking continues. I don't find following all lore attractive, it depends on who writes it.
-Again Agree on the first part. But lore that has the "canon" stamp is still (to me) essential lore. Its like a newspaper or a magazine that you really dont like but a magazine that has some sort of insight into how some in this realm, socialgroup, culture, etc see the world. I dont much care for Fars news (iran) or for Fox news either, but both are instrumental in undestanding how parts of the governments and the electorate wish to see the world. So I read about the pompous paladin-esque Drizzt too.
That doesn't mean that after the franchise inevitably starts to decay, there may never be anything good crawling out of the fetid zombie carrion. SW's atrocious Expanded Universe bred the amazing RepCom and KotOR, decay of DC storylines gave birth to an alternative take in Kingdom Come, and so forth. Yes, ME has indeed birthed rotten fruits, but that doesn't automatically mean the franchise is a goner. It depends on who's writing the product in question, and how good of a job they've done. There may be an excellent game somewhere down the line. Maybe in 5 years. Maybe in three weeks. It depends on how it's made.
-Sure. I was happy as a kid when Obsidian / Bioware got their paws on the SW IP. They know how to churn out a good story. But the "original" franchise can be so far gone its lost. The SW franchise is lost for me. Its been perverted into something it wasent. It was the iconoclastic Sci-fi space fairytale. Im not going to spend a dime on it or the products related to it. And I have kids that get pressies up the kazoo. Alienating fans like me has cost Lucas. He has made a considerable bunch reigning in the new fanbase, but even they see the "discrepencies" between the originals the prequals and the "canon" lore.
Now, no offense but you really seem biased. The intro is just a prologue, and it shows Vega for a whopping 15 seconds or so. He's a guy that exists, and Shepard seems aware of his existence. Then we move on to other things... you know who had about as much exposition once, and never showed up again for the entire prologue? Joker, for example. "There's a dude here, he seems SRS (Vega)/a jackass (Joker), there may be more to come". Who else got about as much? Saren, Benezia. Heck, you don't get to exchange two words with Kaidan until after the prologue. How is complaining about Vega fair, in this context? Do you expect characters to start backtracking their life story immediately? Do you immediately know where Kaidan came from? It's... a prologue. More to come.
-Biased how? For what purpose? Im a Bioware fanboi. I dont want to destroy or hassle Bio. If I had had it my way, bioware would have taken over EA, not the other way around
. I want them to pay more attention. Is that somehow wrong?
Sure we only see Vega for 15 seconds. But we seem to know him well enough to have built a report with him. He calls you "commander" and salutes you, even if Shep has been stripped of rank. That stuff is something you only do if you REALLY respect someone and have a personal report with said person. They could have brought in Joker, Ash,Chakwas or anyone that Shep has such a personal relationship with, and it would have made significantly more sense and felt closer to home.
They don't mention neither "a trial" nor "mass murder", indeed, Anderson only makes a vague reference to "the sh*t you've done" (which may have been anything, up to be discussed on a later date), and makes it clear that there was no trial. "Any other soldier would've been tried, court-martialed and discharged". Would've been, means Shepard wasn't.
-Wrong. In the arrival DLC you are asked to come home and "face the music". Shepard himself says he will happily face a trial. Then we find Shepard apparently confinded to quarters for months, and stripped of rank, ship and crew. Take a peek at the door Shep and Vega exits. It clearly says "Detention center". Thats the brig. You do not put people in the brig unless they stand trial. Despite the dialogue it sure does seem as if Shep is being detained. He wasnt "Tried, courtmartialed and discharged", because the trial and the council isnt over yet. Military justic can be, and usually is, very swift compared to the civillian versions that can drag out for years. At the very least you will have to conceed this does muddle the picture.
Besides, the demo was made as a "gender-neutral", so there's still a possibility that all of your Shepard's exploits will be mentioned and dialogue tailor-made to the sh*t you've really done. That was just a demo version, for "the everyman".
-I am hopefull. But you usually do not showcase a rusty ford sedan when you are trying to peddle a Bentley.
It wasn't a tribunal, it was the defence council. Shepard wasn't judged, he was called as a specialist to tell them wtf is going on. Then, suddenly the world is ending, and there's no more time for planning, they aren't ready, Shepard isn't ready, they are panicking so Shepard simply tells them to stop panicking and get their military asses in gear. The exchange is cut short by the explosion, so it doesn't have time to grow.
-The defence councill is an entitiy. An admiralty board. Incidentially those do pass judgement in tribunerals. He wasnt called. He was detained and summoned. Thats one.
Two: To have the entire high end officer corps paralyzed with fear breaks the suspension of disbelief. Officers of that rank have usually proven that they do not become paralyzed with fear and that they can keep extremely cool heads under pressure. And if nothing else they do know how to ask piercing and logical questions insted of throwing in the towel and act like civillians.
Lastly, the kid. I doubt the point of it was to establish a rapport with the kid in question. The way I received it was that it was a way to show a more human side to Shepard - one of the rare instances where he attempts to do something and fails, that neither the upper nor lower, nor red or blue option will make the other party bend to his will, and that sometimes it will simply end bad with nothing to be done. Because he can't bear the whole universe on his shoulders, which is a huge change from the usual spacebar-mashing making him glide through problems effortlessly. Anderson touches on that as well - sometimes you just can't do it all. So far, Shepard was doing it all, but in ME3 Shepard may be shown as more of a human - trained, strong, resourceful, but just a human after all, who can't calm down a panicked brat when giant machines are ending the world outside, right in its sight. I doubt it's about the single bloody kid. It's about Shepard's rare failure.
-You'll have to forgive me and excuse me if I do step over a line here, but to me that seems a bit crampatastic in a zealous defense. The point of the kid is to show a more humane side to Shep... perhaps. Its to make the realities of war hit home, sure. Its about as common a litterary trick as it gets. "Kill off the kid, old person, defenseless woman, to build "Us and them" , and establish an emotional bond with the writing". Shep tries and fails in regular intervals. He has to choose between tactical viability and civillians on any number of occasions. Its abit naiive to assume that we have consistently to this point been able to save the day. He doesnt wear a cape. As for the kid, he hasnt got a bastard clue what happens, only that people get killed around him. And yet he sounds as if he has spent days or weeks in those ducts. Not mere minutes. He isnt "Newt" from "Aliens". I think it would have made one hell of alot more sense (also when viewed from a psychological stance) that the kid listened to Shep, a more or less friendly and caring adult, and THEN got plugged or fell off a building in a panic attack or something. That would have highlighted the "Cant save kids all the time, cant save everyone all the time" much... much better. Instead we are left with a detatched emotion at the end when the reaper nails the shuttles. Its not about THE kid, no. Its done to show that "default shep" does this to save humanity and civillians. He is the bullwark between the holocaust horde and the innocent. Its about showing that you cant save all civillians in war, and that war targets civillians hard. I get that. Its pretty obvious and even if it wasnt, Im old enough to know that. But I see it as a bit... shall we say... un-innovative, writing.
(and the kickass music).
-Music is good, granted, but I am a Jesper Kyd, Jeremy Soule and Inon Zur Fanboi. I have alot of the music they made for games on disc. Kickass... No. But then music is a subjective topic. You cant argue taste.
That's just the first part, but... not to clog this thread, for a "lorehound", you seem to have quite a few facts about the conversations and so forth wrong. Are you sure you paid attention when playing it? Maybe not enough information was assimilated to make judgements? Maybe you decided to dislike it from the get-go? Sure, your right to do so if that's the case, but... it's not supported in your argumentation.
- I hope I have established that I did NOT get alot "wrong". The facts remain. Shep is confined to the brig. Has been for months, the DLC at the very least implies a tribuneral, a trial. The Council is an admiralty board, that can just as easy preside in a trial as in a fact finding committee. You choose to see the latter... I choose to see the former. Maybe thats an ambiguity left deliberately by the writers, I do not know. But I do not see it as a clear cut storytelling line. I do not see your version as the absolute truth. I didnt form any preconceptions. Ive deliberately stayed well clear of most spoilers such as leaked scripts etc. My first encounter was with the demo. And I did not like it. If I have played the DLC's I only have an inkling on whats going on. If I have played the DLCs and read the books, Ill be somewhat confused as to how the hell I got here too. If I picked up ME3 after having only played the "vanilla" version of ME2, I would have been completely baffled.
Confusion isnt good in story tellling. Its never good to assume and demand that your reader has preconcieved knowledge of the backdrop, especially if the media and the setting does not support that. I wouldnt go on a rampage assuming knowledge of small unit tactics or international "realpolitik" in a romance novel. It would clash to high heaven (Granted, The demo isnt that bad by a longshot, but exaggeration does helpt to drive home the point). There was any number of ways to convey a resume of the DLCs, recap the story to this point during the intro. And its not done. Makes people loose a connection with the story. Makes people start looking for other inconsistencies. Breaks suspension of disbelief. And thats bad.
You might not feel it was "that bad". I dont feel it was "critically bad" either. But I do however feel confused, disconnected from the storyline and wondering. And I played the DLC's and have lurked and posted on this fora for a while now. If I had not and I had only played the vanilla game, I would have been left hanging. Surely... you must be able to see that.
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