352 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonoru]

Haasth wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Worst possible outcome?

No one dies. At all. No casualties, everyone lives and makes it out happily ever after.
Mass Effect 2 style.

I hate people like you. ****ing death obsessed emo.

Yes. 
I am really emo. All the time. Emo is my nickname. 

...
I just don't get the appeal of a "Everyone makes it out alive! It was the toughest, most difficult suicide mission ever known to man but guess what.. Protagonist powers yay!" ending. 
I don't want my people to die, I don't really want to kill a lot of people either, but the fact that I can't prevent that from happening generates emotion and could be really good writing. Often when everyone just survives that just means that it is badly written. 

That's why Virmire is such a key moment for any Mass Effect player (or well, almost any) you see it brought up almost everywhere. It's a big decision, one people will remember throughout the trilogy. 
The fact that the "suicide mission" is really a cakewalk unless you DELIBERATELY make foolish decisions (Rush in without an upgraded ship, send in wrong members for clearly defined roles) is just poorly written.

I love Mass Effect (2) but the fact that everyone survives the toughest mission yet doesn't sit right with me. It's unrealistic. And I don't like that. Now I have to go about and either kill someone off on purpose, so that I can at least say "as expected, there were a few casualties" but then there's the fact I had to be a complete moron to get them killed in the first place. Or I can get through it, save them all (Like I have most of the time), and just can't shake off the feeling it was really meaningless. 

I thought it was up to the player to decide who lives and who doesn't ?

The possibility to have different outcomes is exactly why ME shines.If you don't want everyone to live then kill some or everyone.Pick your own version of the story.

Modifié par Nonoru, 05 février 2012 - 07:26 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Rocks fall, everyone dies.

That'd be the worst outcome ever... or the best one.

[jeweledleah]

Nonoru wrote...

Haasth wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Worst possible outcome?

No one dies. At all. No casualties, everyone lives and makes it out happily ever after.
Mass Effect 2 style.

I hate people like you. ****ing death obsessed emo.

Yes. 
I am really emo. All the time. Emo is my nickname. 

...
I just don't get the appeal of a "Everyone makes it out alive! It was the toughest, most difficult suicide mission ever known to man but guess what.. Protagonist powers yay!" ending. 
I don't want my people to die, I don't really want to kill a lot of people either, but the fact that I can't prevent that from happening generates emotion and could be really good writing. Often when everyone just survives that just means that it is badly written. 

That's why Virmire is such a key moment for any Mass Effect player (or well, almost any) you see it brought up almost everywhere. It's a big decision, one people will remember throughout the trilogy. 
The fact that the "suicide mission" is really a cakewalk unless you DELIBERATELY make foolish decisions (Rush in without an upgraded ship, send in wrong members for clearly defined roles) is just poorly written.

I love Mass Effect (2) but the fact that everyone survives the toughest mission yet doesn't sit right with me. It's unrealistic. And I don't like that. Now I have to go about and either kill someone off on purpose, so that I can at least say "as expected, there were a few casualties" but then there's the fact I had to be a complete moron to get them killed in the first place. Or I can get through it, save them all (Like I have most of the time), and just can't shake off the feeling it was really meaningless. 

I thought it was up to the player to decide who lives and who doesn't ?

The possibility to have different outcomes is exactly why ME shines.If you don't want everyone to live then kill some or everyone.Pick your own version of the story.

you know, if we're going to judge this guy, we should judge him based on entirety of his original statement.  you know the one where he says

I would get really upset if Tali gets too caught up in defeating the
Geth and get herself killed against my countless attempts to stop her.
It would definitely create emotion and sadness and could be great
writing, but it would never sit right with me.  

so you see, as long as its not a favorite character - deaths should happen.  but it shoudln't be Tali.  casue that won't sit well.

[GodWood]

Nonoru wrote...
I thought it was up to the player to decide who lives and who doesn't ?

The possibility to have different outcomes is exactly why ME shines.If you don't want everyone to live then kill some or everyone.Pick your own version of the story.

Deliberately orchestrating your squad's death is not emotionally engaging.

It needs to be a suprise.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

nAbaddon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Hey, consider this my condolences for your upcomming disappointment.

Gonna be a rough ride'.

Hey **** stop the spoilers and implying things.

What a troll.

What did I spoil? That the game is sss hhh eye tee?

It guess that is implied though.

Quick, someone alert the press!

Eh, too late, what I'm sayin'? The press is gonna love this game.

I'm going to guess a majority are going to like this game.

From what I've seen only a vocal minority dislike this game...so it really isn't different from any other Bioware game or any other game in existance.

[KotorEffect3]

The only ones that I see crying about the game is the Cerberus Defense Force.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

nAbaddon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Hey, consider this my condolences for your upcomming disappointment.

Gonna be a rough ride'.

Hey **** stop the spoilers and implying things.

What a troll.

What did I spoil? That the game is sss hhh eye tee?

It guess that is implied though.

Quick, someone alert the press!

Eh, too late, what I'm sayin'? The press is gonna love this game.

Is Saphra deliberatly posting spoilers again?  His ass needs to be banned from the bsn.

[GodWood]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
The only ones that I see crying about the game is the Cerberus Defense Force.

Naturally this invalidates any concerns they have.

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
The only ones that I see crying about the game is the Cerberus Defense Force.

Naturally this invalidates any concerns they have.

No, but from what I've seen they do...exaggerate certain things.

Alot.

[BlueMagitek]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
His job is to uphold the council's will and protect the galaxy.

Letting galactive citizens die; perhaps needlessly isn't part of the job description. Now, doing what you must to get the job done is; therefor letting a criminal go to save the lives and then GO get him is just as justifiable as killing him at the expense of the civilians.

In other words, both choices still uphold the councils will.

Yes, his job is to uphold the Council's will.  That means that if he has to slaughter a bus full of innocent, blind orphans, as a Spectre, he has to do it.  As a Spectre, you can do as you please so long as it furthers the Council's will and control.  You are not only encouraged, but expected to amass power and contacts; look at Saren and Tela Vasir; power, wealth and contacts.

You're letting an enemy of the Council escape after an attempt of one of their most grevious acts (as it would ruin a colonizable world).

[KotorEffect3]

GodWood wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
The only ones that I see crying about the game is the Cerberus Defense Force.

Naturally this invalidates any concerns they have.

Well considering their main beef is that they can't join cerberus the CDF pretty much invalidates themselves.  They don't look at the whole scope of the game they just look at the fact that they can't side with cerberus.  Condemning a game that hasn't even been released yet is just idiotic.  Even with the knowledge of the script.  These are video games and not novels.  Even if you aren't crazy about the story you don't know how levels are going to play out.  How scenes will actualy unfold etc....

[Hunter of Legends]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
His job is to uphold the council's will and protect the galaxy.

Letting galactive citizens die; perhaps needlessly isn't part of the job description. Now, doing what you must to get the job done is; therefor letting a criminal go to save the lives and then GO get him is just as justifiable as killing him at the expense of the civilians.

In other words, both choices still uphold the councils will.

Yes, his job is to uphold the Council's will.  That means that if he has to slaughter a bus full of innocent, blind orphans, as a Spectre, he has to do it.  As a Spectre, you can do as you please so long as it furthers the Council's will and control.  You are not only encouraged, but expected to amass power and contacts; look at Saren and Tela Vasir; power, wealth and contacts.

You're letting an enemy of the Council escape after an attempt of one of their most grevious acts (as it would ruin a colonizable world).

Yes, and this is all true (sans the last bit) but that is the whole point in the paragon/renegade system. Do you use that power properly or do you overstep your bounds (occasionally).

We saw how being ruthless and renegade was/is/will be a bad thing (Saren, Vasir, Illusive Man) so again I ask can't a paragon serve the galaxy and still uphold the will of the law.

Police are paragons and renegades in our world and both sides have accomplished much.

[GodWood]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Condemning a game that hasn't even been released yet is just idiotic.

And supporting it is not?

[Hunter of Legends]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

No, but from what I've seen they do...exaggerate certain things.

Alot.

Like what?

Choice not doing anything is the only thing I can see some sell on what people discuss, but again it isn't to the extants some of you make it out to be.

Things you (not you specifcally) "overexaggerate"
Renegades getting punished
Cerberus being the bad guys
Bad writing from Bioware
Bad choices/moral decisions
several other things that are more case by case than general.

Again, I have nothing against those that wish to support cerberus and the Illusive Man but I do notice that the only people who read the leak and have any real issues with it (besides the aforementioned choice group) are the Cerberus Defense Force types. Just my observations so far. March 6th will tell but considering these same people have issues with ME2 that I laugh at or greatly disagree with...or think they are just flat out retarded on I am feeling ME3 will surpass ME2 and be the best of the series.

March 6th will tell.

[BlueMagitek]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Yes, and this is all true (sans the last bit) but that is the whole point in the paragon/renegade system. Do you use that power properly or do you overstep your bounds (occasionally).

We saw how being ruthless and renegade was/is/will be a bad thing (Saren, Vasir, Illusive Man) so again I ask can't a paragon serve the galaxy and still uphold the will of the law.

Police are paragons and renegades in our world and both sides have accomplished much.

Paragon/Renegade is about being idealistic (to a fault) or pragmatic (to a fault).  Nothing about how you wield your power. 

Oh?  How was that a bad thing?  Saren was the Council's most effective tool, and was lost to the Reapers' will.  Vasir was effective; I remember a new report about her saving a number of people.  What was she doing wrong, exactly?  Trying to stop Shepard from taking down the Shadowbroker?  Ah, what a world to exist in, where loyalty (or simple utilitarianism) is viewed as an amoral virtue.  TIM isn't a spectre, he doesn't have those benefits. 

Not by letting a terrorist who was attempting to kill millions of people go over the lives of three (one of whom already sacrificed her brother to ensure that said terrorist was stopped).

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Well considering their main beef is that they can't join cerberus the CDF pretty much invalidates themselves.

I'm pretty sure it is a little more complicated than that, but by all means continue misrepresenting our arguments. It's all you ever do.


 

KotorEffect3 wrote...

They don't look at the whole scope of the game they just look at the fact that they can't side with cerberus.

Actually we do I'm afraid the game has a lot more wrong with it than just the handling of Cerberus. A lot more.

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Condemning a game that hasn't even been released yet is just idiotic.

I've read the script and seen the trailers. What more do you want? It is perfectly logical to make a judgement about a game or movie if I've seen all the promotional material and none of it appeals to me. Now I could still be wrong, but that is the exception, not the rule.

Bad marketing does happen, but so far I don't think that's the case.

Ok what is it about the actual gameplay that you hate?   remember no spoilers

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 05 février 2012 - 07:53 .

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Condemning a game that hasn't even been released yet is just idiotic.

And supporting it is not?

I'd say either stance is illogical unless you are using grounds from previous games. One issue I've taken (Gatt9/Gett9) constantly uses DA: 2 as justification for ME3's having pitfalls.

That is not a valid or logical complaint unless talking about DLC and/or customer support.