140 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

ME1: Uh...yes without her Shep would've never been able to reach Ilos and stop Saren. If Shep does everything but pick up Liara he can't get to Ilos.
ME2: Uh...without her Shep wouldn't be alive to stop the Collectors
ME3: Based off the leak script the Reapers only become defeatable thanks to her.

Nonsense; grab Liara last and she mindmelds one single time, then freaks out about Ilos.  And it doesn't need to be Liara; it could have been any asari expert on protheans.  The only thing special about her was her status as Beneziah's daughter, and as she has all of zero impact, she's pretty worthless.

She's not a squadmate in ME 2 until the DLC, at which point she's still not SB.  

ME 3 remains to be seen, but that does sound like it would happen, given the current trend of archeologist -> information broker -> SB.

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

ME1: Uh...yes without her Shep would've never been able to reach Ilos and stop Saren. If Shep does everything but pick up Liara he can't get to Ilos.
ME2: Uh...without her Shep wouldn't be alive to stop the Collectors
ME3: Based off the leak script the Reapers only become defeatable thanks to her.

Nonsense; grab Liara last and she mindmelds one single time, then freaks out about Ilos.  And it doesn't need to be Liara; it could have been any asari expert on protheans.  The only thing special about her was her status as Beneziah's daughter, and as she has all of zero impact, she's pretty worthless.

She's not a squadmate in ME 2 until the DLC, at which point she's still not SB.  

ME 3 remains to be seen, but that does sound like it would happen, given the current trend of archeologist -> information broker -> SB.

...using that logic you can replace EVERYONE with someone else with their exact skills and knowledge and no one at all is important. Including Shepard. <_< Her knowledge of the protheans and how much of her life she put into looking up about them WAS what made her special.

Being a squadmate =/= plot importance. Most of the most important characters in the series are NOT squadmates. Plus she becomes SB at the end of said DLC not that is what makes her so important in ME2. Rather the fact that she found Shep's body before the SB could sell it off to the Collectors and then merrily make their Reaper slushie with Shep at the base of it is the importance.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2012 - 01:11 .

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

...using that logic you can replace EVERYONE with someone else with their exact skills and knowledge and no one at all is important. <_< Including Shepard.

Being a squadmate =/= plot importance. Most of the most important characters in the series are NOT squadmates.

I'm serious though, Shepard could have gone to an Asari Space College of Space Archeology and get the same result (perhaps even better; Liara was only unique in that she thought the Protheans were wiped out, or something like that; it's been a while).  You don't get any extra special information out of Beneziah, or the chance to bring her back alive as evidence of indoctrination to the Council, so Liara's entire reason for being sought out is kind of weak.

Shepard, on the other hand, has the Prothean Beacon Message; he could be replaced by anyone with this message and his combat skills, which goes to... Saren?  Not my first choice, but whatever.  Tali had the information (but could be otherwise replaced and should be able to be skipped); Garrus was unnecessary, Wrex was important only so much that he led you to Tali, Ash/Kaiden could have been any Alliance Marine not involved in a cutscene (RIP Jenkins).

Now here I thought we were talking about the most important squadmate.  

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
I'm serious though, Shepard could have gone to an Asari Space College of Space Archeology and get the same result (perhaps even better; Liara was only unique in that she thought the Protheans were wiped out, or something like that; it's been a while).  You don't get any extra special information out of Beneziah, or the chance to bring her back alive as evidence of indoctrination to the Council, so Liara's entire reason for being sought out is kind of weak.

Shepard, on the other hand, has the Prothean Beacon Message; he could be replaced by anyone with this message and his combat skills, which goes to... Saren?  Not my first choice, but whatever.  Tali had the information (but could be otherwise replaced and should be able to be skipped); Garrus was unnecessary, Wrex was important only so much that he led you to Tali, Ash/Kaiden could have been any Alliance Marine not involved in a cutscene (RIP Jenkins).

Now here I thought we were talking about the most important squadmate.  

....*rubs temples* She was an expert on the Protheans *and* she was Benezia's daughter. Benezia who at the moment was Saren's right hand man. Of course Shep would go after her. If only to see if she doesn't have additional information about Saren and Benezia.

Liara *is* a squadmate in ME1 and ME3 (constantly) in ME2 she's a temp squadmate. I'd say she counts as a squadmate.

Otherwise the only characters who can count in this scenario are Tali and Garrus because they're the only two characters Shep has actual squadmates throughout all three games constantly. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2012 - 01:15 .

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

....*rubs temples*

Liara *is* a squadmate in ME1 and ME3 (constantly) in ME2 she's a temp squadmate. I'd say she counts as a squadmate.

Otherwise the only characters who can count in this scenario are Tali and Garrus because they're the only two characters Shep has actual squadmates throughout all three games constantly. <_<

You're just mad because we didn't get to go to Space College. 

That's what I seperated it into three parts:

ME 1
ME 2
ME 3

She's only a squadmate in ME 1, 3, & LotSB, hardly ME 2.  

You forgot Shepard's pants.  It'd be his whole armor, but Liara stoled it.

Unfortunately, as SB, I'm going to have a hard time justifying my pragmatic Shepard sacrificing her over another squadmate. Now, if we could, say, hand that job over to an AI that we know, as I suspected from ME 1, that would just be swell, and solve my little problem.

Edit:  Oooh, you added to your post.

Yes, Shepard has reason for going after her (Beneziah's daughter and all), but her true purpose (delving into Shepard's mind), could have been solved by any Asari Space Archeologist.  I'd much rather have Asari-ana Jones do it than Liara, but that's just not an option.

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 04 février 2012 - 01:19 .

[Haasth]

Yes and no.

I would say that in Mass Effect 2 it was Miranda who clearly had the bigger impact on the main goal at the time.
In the greater picture of things I would say Liara does qualify for 'most important' though.

It really depends what defines that importance. 
I am certain that in Mass Effect 3 there will be more about the Geth or Krogan. In which case Liara won't have much importance there. And in Mass Effect 2, other than being the one to recover your body, she doesn't do anything of importance that is directly related to your mission. 

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
You're just mad because we didn't get to go to Space College. 

That's what I seperated it into three parts:

ME 1
ME 2
ME 3

She's only a squadmate in ME 1, 3, & LotSB, hardly ME 2.  

You forgot Shepard's pants.  It'd be his whole armor, but Liara stoled it.

Unfortunately, as SB, I'm going to have a hard time justifying my pragmatic Shepard sacrificing her over another squadmate. Now, if we could, say, hand that job over to an AI that we know, as I suspected from ME 1, that would just be swell, and solve my little problem.

I hate semantics so I'll end this here before I start facepalming.

Re edit: Yeah no.

Yes OP Liara is the most important squadmate in the ME series.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sadly yes. Feels a bit forced IMO.

This ^ unfortunately

Pretty much this.

[SilvinC]

SolidBeast wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

ME 1: Nope
ME 2: Nope
ME 3: If she's still SB, yes.

ME1: Uh...yes without her Shep would've never been able to reach Ilos and stop Saren. If Shep does everything but pick up Liara he can't get to Ilos.
ME2: Uh...without her Shep wouldn't be alive to stop the Collectors
ME3: Based off the leak script the Reapers only become defeatable thanks to her.

Urge to kill +200%

Killing a character because she has plot relevance throughout the story is pretty childish, in my opinion.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

I hate semantics so I'll end this here before I start facepalming.

Re edit: Yeah no.

Yes OP Liara is the most important squadmate in the ME series.

Well that would just ruin my fun.

Not no~!  ME 2 had a plethora of important squad mates.

Mordin:  Genophagey
Miranda: Lazarusey.
Legion: Geth Ambassadoreey.

...well, maybe 'plethora' was too strong a word.  Regardless, as she is not a squaddie in ME 2, she is not the most important squad mate of ME 2.

Ah well, my Liaramance Shep will have fun sending her to oblivion once we get that pragmatic solution.

[Ryzaki]

@Blue: ...wait...why would you romance her then have your Shep kill her?

[Collider]

Killing a character because she has plot relevance throughout the story is pretty childish, in my opinion.

It is just a video game. People generally play for entertainment. If you don't like a character, getting them out of the way can contribute to your enjoyment.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: ...wait...why would you romance her then have your Shep kill her?

Because as a Ruthless background, Raine Shepard is not above any sacrifice to achieve her goals against the enemies of humanity. 

And she may be a *tad* peeved at being brought back to life by people she hated (but learned to tolerate).

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: ...wait...why would you romance her then have your Shep kill her?

Because as a Ruthless background, Raine Shepard is not above any sacrifice to achieve her goals against the enemies of humanity. 

And she may be a *tad* peeved at being brought back to life by people she hated (but learned to tolerate).

Yeesh. Glad I don't have ruthless Sheps. Just the squeaky clean war hero types and the tramautized sole survivors for me.

[KotorEffect3]

Liara is my canon LI and anyone that complains about her importance or complains about her "plot armor" can stick it. I will save Thessia before I save earth.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeesh. Glad I don't have ruthless Sheps. Just the squeaky clean war hero types and the tramautized sole survivors for me.

Listen, Earthborn Ruthless Shepard did not go through two metaphorical hells and the literal one to put up with this nonsense.  But now that she's back, hellfire and suffering will follow in her wake and a terrible vengence will be inflicted upon Reaperkind.
I haven't had any Spacer Shepards at all.  

[KotorEffect3]

SilvinTT56 wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

ME 1: Nope
ME 2: Nope
ME 3: If she's still SB, yes.

ME1: Uh...yes without her Shep would've never been able to reach Ilos and stop Saren. If Shep does everything but pick up Liara he can't get to Ilos.
ME2: Uh...without her Shep wouldn't be alive to stop the Collectors
ME3: Based off the leak script the Reapers only become defeatable thanks to her.

Urge to kill +200%

Killing a character because she has plot relevance throughout the story is pretty childish, in my opinion.

This

[Vilio1]

When I saw the thread title, I knew it would end as a hate thread...

[Collider]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Liara is my canon LI and anyone that complains about her importance or complains about her "plot armor" can stick it. I will save Thessia before I save earth.

:innocent:

Modifié par Collider, 04 février 2012 - 01:39 .

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Listen, Earthborn Ruthless Shepard did not go through two metaphorical hells and the literal one to put up with this nonsense.  But now that she's back, hellfire and suffering will follow in her wake and a terrible vengence will be inflicted upon Reaperkind.
I haven't had any Spacer Shepards at all.  

I have one spacer. But most of my dudes are colonists/sole survivors. That plus the tramua from seeing the Protheans wiped out via the cipher and my Sheps are utterly insane and borderline suicidal (or homicidal in the case of my renedouche).  It makes me feel better at some of the WTF things that come out of Sheps mouth. (and some of the crazy things he/she does).

[Ryzaki]

Collider wrote...

Killing a character because she has plot relevance throughout the story is pretty childish, in my opinion.

It is just a video game. People generally play for entertainment. If you don't like a character, getting them out of the way can contribute to your enjoyment.

This.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

I have one spacer. But most of my dudes are colonists/sole survivors. That plus the tramua from seeing the Protheans wiped out via the cipher and my Sheps are utterly insane and borderline suicidal (or homicidal in the case of my renedouche).  It makes me feel better at some of the WTF things that come out of Sheps mouth. (and some of the crazy things he/she does).

That's fair enough; I do have a Colonist/SS, just for the woobie factor.  They're generally nice people, but they'll murder anyone involved in slaving if the option presents itself, and Batarians in general, due to the entire Mindoir thing.

You don't *need* to RP an Earthborn/Ruthless the way I do; you could easily play an atoner; which is easier than playing a "fall from grace" Spacer, in my opinion.  

But I'm afraid we're getting off topic.  I feel bad for Liara; instead of working on Ilos, as you'd think she'd be doing, she's off in the boring world of information brokering.  Volus do this job!  Volus!

[Jobasha]

Being crucial to the plot is one thing; being forced upon the player is another. If you hate the character (and I can understand why, even though I personally like her) you don't need to have more interaction with her than with your favorite characters.
In ME1 there are only short interactions; in ME2 there are only a couple of conversations; LOTSB is roughly equivalent to one recruitment and one loyalty mission; in ME3 we'll see, but I doubt she will get in the way of the other characters you will meet.
I don't see the reason to complain; I don't like either Ash or Kaidan for instance, but they're part of the story, it's only natural I will have to interact a bit with the VS.

[SolidBeast]

Ryzaki wrote...

Collider wrote...

Killing a character because she has plot relevance throughout the story is pretty childish, in my opinion.

It is just a video game. People generally play for entertainment. If you don't like a character, getting them out of the way can contribute to your enjoyment.

This.

Pretty much.

[Deventh]

I hope she is.