140 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Although I consider Mordin, Legion, Wrex and Garrus less relevant to the plot than Liara, Miranda, and Tali, they weren't insignificant. I probably shouldn't have left them out of my first post.

Even so I think it is fair to say that out all the squad mates Liara has the biggest role in the story. But that isn't a really a bad thing. In no work of fiction do all characters have an equal amount of plot relevance. Some characters are always going to have a bigger role in the story than others. If it wasn't Liara, her role in the story would just be filled by some other character. She is also hardly alone in having a lot of plot relevance. Without Miranda there is no Lazarus Project and no Mass Effect 2, and without Tali's evidence Saren is still a Spectre and Shepard isn't.

[mitthrawuodo]

Purely in terms of squadmates then it's her but TIM, Joker, EDI, Anderson, etc. are important the non-squadmate character

[gearseffect]

mitthrawuodo wrote...

Purely in terms of squadmates then it's her but TIM, Joker, EDI, Anderson, etc. are important the non-squadmate character

This 100% Liara is very importent and in ME3 she takes the role that TIM and the Council  had in ME2 and ME1. She was also a very importent character for the plot in ME1. The plot in ME1 needed her as the Prothen Expert to develop along the path it did.
Also Nilus was a very importent character who's probally more responsilbe for Shep becoming a Specter than we know. Sure he died at the begining but he was a very importent.

So Liara is probaly the most plot importent squadie besides Shep. She's also the only one who can live to 3 and not end up dead. So that kind of makes her a defult importent character.

Anderson, Joker, and The Illisive Man, are all importent though Joker's importence I feel is less plot driven and more being able to stay alive to 3 in any outcome. Also another thing that makes Joker  importent is he's Seth Green.

Anderson is importent for many reasons, as is TIM to the plot and universe itself heck both could be considered more importent to the ME universe than Shep and Liara. Also again  both have great VA that help make the characters Keith David and Martin Sheen.

I can't help but feel bioware has a soft spot for Liara, but hey so do I, I've also never been able to live with Wrex getting killed or Garru and the ME2 non Squadie Normandy Crew killed.

Is Liara importent yes Why?  Many reasons, but if your doing a story and most the characters can be dead in the last installment your gonna end up falling back on the ones who make it there regardless for some more pivatal plot moments.

[CptData]

^ and that's why several people dislike Liara. She feels like "forced on the player" or "shoved down the throat".
In my case I'm pretty much indifferent about her - which means I consider her less as a character than a "MacGuffin" of some kind. Which is bad writing

I'm kinda glad the VS is not that prominent in the story, however, s/he gets loaded with drama. Lots of drama.

Modifié par CptData, 04 février 2012 - 11:24 .

[Tazzmission]

honestly i have to say yes. im not a big fan boy of hers ( i like them all) but i think with her backround as a prothean expert and now shadow broker back round story wise i think she tops others yes

Modifié par Tazzmission, 04 février 2012 - 11:29 .

[Asari_Party]

CptData wrote...

^ and that's why several people dislike Liara. She feels like "forced on the player" or "shoved down the throat".
In my case I'm pretty much indifferent about her - which means I consider her less as a character than a "MacGuffin" of some kind. Which is bad writing

Do you even know what a MacGuffin is? MacGuffin =/ a plot relevant character, you know.

[CptData]

A MacGuffin is a plot relevant "device".
And Liara got stripped of her character when the writers decided to make her to the SB.
In short: Liara acts like a plot device, not like a character: MacGuffin. Or at least "like a MacGuffin".

I just hope the writers make her less essential for ME3 and give her some of her old character back. I liked Liara in ME1, but LotSB - despite being a great DLC - didn't do her any favor.

Modifié par CptData, 04 février 2012 - 11:42 .

[Asari_Party]

MacGuffin (a.k.a. McGuffin or maguffin) is a term for a motivating element in a story that is used to drive the plot. It actually serves no further purpose. It won't pop up again later, it won't explain the ending, it won't actually do anything except possibly distract you while you try to figure out its significance. In some cases, it won't even be shown. It is usually a mysterious package/artifact/superweapon that everyone in the story is chasing.

To determine if a thing is a MacGuffin, check to see if it is interchangeable. For example, in a caper story the MacGuffin could be either the Mona Lisa or the Hope diamond, it makes no difference which. The rest of the story (i.e. it being stolen) would be exactly the same. It doesn't matter which it is, it is only necessary for the characters to want it.

A common MacGuffin story setup can be summarized as "Quickly! We must find X before they do!".

http://tvtropes.org/.../Main/MacGuffin


Liara is not one, not even close to one.

[Tazzmission]

CptData wrote...

A MacGuffin is a plot relevant "device".
And Liara got stripped of her character when the writers decided to make her to the SB.
In short: Liara acts like a plot device, not like a character: MacGuffin. Or at least "like a MacGuffin".

I just hope the writers make her less essential for ME3 and give her some of her old character back. I liked Liara in ME1, but LotSB - despite being a great DLC - didn't do her any favor.

how do you figure?

if you think about it her career in knowing about racees and extinct cultures fits well with the shadow broker role

i do believe that will play into the whole mars prothean device thing where you meet up with liara.

[CptData]

Okay, maybe you're right. She's not a "MacGuffin".
She's still more like a "plot device" than a real character (except her romance arc, if she's your LI).

I'm not argueing here since it's basically "biased view" against "biased view". I'm just happy my fave character didn't get that treatment, even if that means she had far less screentime so far. Can live with that.

[Lord Issa]

I'd say she probably is the most important, but Legion is a close runner-up, and least in some ways. He may not have a major effect on the Reaper war compared to Liara, but his existence alone completely rewrote everything we knew about the Geth. He would have probably been just as important as her if they had stuck with the original ME2 opening.

[Tazzmission]

Lord Issa wrote...

I'd say she probably is the most important, but Legion is a close runner-up, and least in some ways. He may not have a major effect on the Reaper war compared to Liara, but his existence alone completely rewrote everything we knew about the Geth. He would have probably been just as important as her if they had stuck with the original ME2 opening.

well i think the question is about perm squadmates.........


if thats the case than yea liara beats charachters like kadain and ashley and even wrex.


now if we are talking who is better as a additional squadmate or npc than thats going to take me awile sinc ei have alot that i do like

[Aurora313]

Problem is, I feel no attachment to Liara whatsoever. Beyond the fact that I 'need' her for some arbitrary reason. She seems like an extra forced on me because she alone has this ability to sort through some jumbled images in Shepard's head by messing with it more. Sorry, I know its a little bias, but I feel nothing for her character, I'd of rathered a DLC that could help patch up relations between Shepard and the VS.

[Stardusk78]

If it weren't Liara it would be the mysterious device X, there is always something essential.

[elarem]

She is an asset to my Shepards but she is not Shepard's most important squad mate because her importance has nothing to do with her actually being a squad mate. She could stay on the Normandy and still be important as the SB and erstwhile Prothean expert. And without Shiala Shepard wouldn't have the Cipher - which may be very useful in ME3. (Sorry for the overuse of important.)

[Candidate 88766]

Most important squadmate? Yes.

Even if you don't like her, you cannot deny her importance to the story so far.

-Helped Shepard understand the Prothean visions.
-Informed Shepard about Illos.
-Saved Shepard from the Shadow Broker (and so from the Collectors), thus allowing Shepard to be brought back to life.

No other character has had as much relevancy to the plot. Without Liara, Sovereign couldn't have been stopped (she was the only one who knew of Illos), and even if it had Shepard wouldn't be around for ME2.

Compare this to the other ME1 characters.

Tali:
-Has information that incriminates Saren
-First indication of Benezia's involvement
-First indication of the Conduit and the Reapers

Garrus:
-Investigating Saren

Wrex:
-Hired to kill fist by the Shadow Broker

Ash:
-Has squad killed by the Geth

Kaiden:
-Was already part of the Normandy's crew

Tali has some importance in that without her Saren's Spectre status may not have been removed, and Shepard may not have learnt about Benezia's involvement or of the Conduit and Reapers. Garrus is investigating Saren, but doesn't actually have any information on him. Wrex can kill Fist. but again that doesn't really advance the plot all that much. Kaiden and Ash are nice enough characters, but don't actually have a role in the plot until Virmire. Thats not an insult to the characters, its just stating the truth. Not every character has to be important. Take Star Wars for example - C3PO actually doesn't do anything apart from saving them from Ewoks.

In ME2, Wrex becomes more important than he was due to his role with the Krogan, but that is one of the subplots - Liara's importance is to the main plot. As for ME2 squadmates, Mordin and Miranda are important to the ME2 storyline, Mordin and Grunt are important to the Krogan storyline, Tali and Legion are important to the Geth/Quarian storyline.

However, Liara's role is still more important because it carries across all three games. She is still important come ME3, for spoiler-ish reasons.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 04 février 2012 - 12:50 .

[Asari_Party]

CptData wrote...

She's still more like a "plot device" than a real character (except her romance arc, if she's your LI).

 

Did you play Lotsb? Liara is one of the few LI characters who is equally strong with a friendship arc as she is with a romance, in my opinion. The cabin scene works really nice with friendship Liara, too. Liara asks Shepard how Shepard really feels about the mission, they discuss your ME2 romance, etc. The whole dialogue sequences between them made both characters come fully alive for me. There are other characters who suffer more from not being Shepards LI (the VS and Garrus come particularly to my mind)

Modifié par Roxy12, 04 février 2012 - 01:36 .

[Hillbillyshep]

Shiala could have done the melding thing with Shepard and she´s also green!
Her attitude shifts and she seems to think she´s too good for Shepard and doesn´t have time for him.
Alot better people could handle the Shadow Broker´s network.

[Dariustwinblade]

Being green and mind melding only dosen't solve anything. Silly Hillbilly.

You needed an expert on the protheans who would know about Illos. Liara was one of the best prothean experts in the galaxy. And only she would have been able to find out about Illos.

Also she never thinks she is too good for Shepard. She thinks that she has changed enough in such a way that Shepard may not like her. *Leaked spoilers, real or imagined not permitted*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 04 février 2012 - 04:28 .

[LilyasAvalon]

jreezy wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Everyone has their own opinion. But in terms of Bioware's opinion? You can't really lie, she really is kind of put on her own little pedestal.

BioWare hasn't said anything on this subject before. 

Do you really think Bioware is going to openly admit to preferrancial treatment? They're certainly not stupid.

They don't even have to say anything anyway, the OP makes good points, Liara was designed and advertised to be more appealing than the rest of the squad mates aside from Shepard, hell, her entire race was. A space race of an all female blue alien race whose majority of their appearances are as strippers and dancers in the clubs? What kind of self respecting male sci-fi fan wouldn't love that?

No hate on Liara or the Asari in general, I personally adore Liara like a sister, but you can't deny she gets more screen time than any other squad mate.

[Barquiel]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

No hate on Liara or the Asari in general, I personally adore Liara like a sister, but you can't deny she gets more screen time than any other squad mate.

Tali and Garrus get definitely more screentime than Liara. I mean...they are full-fledged squadmates in all three games. Liara was sidelined in ME2.

[Charsi]

Vilio1 wrote...

Some people here are really obsessed with Liara, and I don't mean her fans.

I kinda like Liara, and she is important caracter to the story and one of most important ones! Is not your fault that writers of the game did her that way, blame them, and no need to spread hate here! I dont like kaidan and miranda and im not obsessed flaming around hate to them!

Just deal with it!!!

[Ricvenart]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Most important squadmate? Yes.

Even if you don't like her, you cannot deny her importance to the story so far.

-Helped Shepard understand the Prothean visions.
-Informed Shepard about Illos.
-Saved Shepard from the Shadow Broker (and so from the Collectors), thus allowing Shepard to be brought back to life.


Tali:
-Has information that incriminates Saren
-First indication of Benezia's involvement
-First indication of the Conduit and the Reapers

1. No she tells you everything you found out from other sources ages ago. Tali adds the reaper explaination as you already state, The Thorian/Shiala help you organize the image into something more solid, Benezia gives you a better idea of where the condiut is.
2. If the rest of the crew weren't forced to act so thick for the sake of Liara importance, they could have pinpointed it via Benezia saying the system and finding out which planet has major prothean ruins (it's stated numerous times theres not that many in great condition so even without the above it would have become a fairly obvious choice) though numberous sources including other prothean experts not the newest understudy on the scene thats just doing it to avoid people.
3. Oh yes "saved" us from the SB, more like BW desperation to involved that blue alien chick "killed" the SB in more ways then one, he could have been a much more interesting character with more importance then just becoming a galatic Cerberus clone, that is supposedly highly intelligent with a great wealth of knowlegde yet thinks giving away the only person to destroy a reaper would lead him to be spared by Collectors and Reapers, and what then? he'd have no role past that and no usefulness, just like selling information to everyone prevented wars meaning he was an ongoing nessessicity, him doing that makes him redundant. Another case of a character becoming underplayed and thick as a brick for the sake of Liara. Just to rub salt on the wound after flip floping in her majorly hypocritical role (which is fine apparently) she's tossing all that she worked towards away so she can have more screen time in 3 while judging us for not picking the relationship she would call inappropriete with others.
I've left the Tali bit in the quote just to point out how much more she provides, without her knowlegde and skill with the geth no evidence would have been found til far too late, Saren would have remained a spectre and Shepard never would have become one to chase him down.

Liara is one of the least important characters but sadly a major selling point and has been packed in (poorly mostly) to the story giving a false impression of being a key player.