140 réponses à ce sujet

[Weltea]

She is a terrible,terrible Mary Sue and her "importance" feels completely forced.
If the writing for her had been better....

She's completely unimporant in ME2,she's not even that important in getting Shepards body back because Cerberus was working on that already. In ME3 I can only hope they find the balance between "completely useless,why was she forced on me for three games?" and "liara saves the day because she's so awesome and everybody loves her". And I hope she finally gets rid of her plot armor.
I think you can consider her "the most important" squadmate in ME1 but she was also completely useless for most of the game (when she continously mind raped you and then wanted you to feel sorry for her and couldn't give you any info but then forced herself on you again regardless) so I don't know how much her one shining moment should really count,especially since Ash/Kaidan sacrifice their life to stop Saren's cloning facility and without that sacrifice the galaxy would probably be looking at another krogan war pretty soon (with or without Saren). And without Joker you couldn't have landed on Ilos,it's all relative.

What are the other points the OP mentioned? oh yeah
- I don't have to meet her early on,I believe I can even get her after doing Feros,Noveria and Virmire.
- She doesn't have any kind of "connection" with the Protheans unless I missed something completely.She has studied them,and we have someone much better on Prothean Studies now.
- "She gets her own comic series and DLC" we all know BW has a hard on for her,why do you bring that up again?

[Matinek]

No... Tali Ra Normady I think her full name is now, she plays the bigger role, actually, all squad mates play a balanced role, but since you can sleep with Tali... SHES TEH IMPORTANT 1!!!!11

[furryrage59]

Found Tali to be extremely useful, no idea how the other guy found her to be useless, saved my ass many times.

Shrug.

[Demoiselle]

Okay... if the reason Liara 'makes-us-able-to-defeat-the-reapers' is something to do with her knowledge of Protheans (and there's a good excuse of how she can find out and new Prothy-expert squaddie can't), I'll live. Otherwise I won't be able to stop seeing her as just a plot device.

[kellyzorah]

A few things- obviously I love Liara, and I'm glad she is as popular as she is, but that does not make her a Mary Sue...in fact, she's far from a Mary Sue. As a vanguard in ME1, she and Tali were the squadmates I used most often, but Liara had this nasty habit of dying. She is similar to any adept in terms of her power- exceptionally strong offensively, but weak defensively.

Also, she's not forced on anyone, lol. You get to choose your romances in ME1 and 2 and (as many people have stated) doesn't have to be involved romantically with Shep in LotSB. I don't see any force there...unless the force is being referred to in terms of her relevance as a character to the story- but as (again) several people have stated- you could say the same about any character- we do not choose who our squadmates are or their relevance to the story- but we do get to choose how we interact with them and what sort of effect on the overall plot they can have.

I don't have an axe to grind against any character, but if there is a Mary Sue, Miranda, by definition is a particularly fanservicey Mary Sue (minus the author insertion/fanfic aspect). She's moody, self- important, and designed to be perfect (but just like everyone else, makes mistakes that proves she's human). I think Miranda is cool, I think Liara is cool- Tali is my favorite character (and I would argue one of the most popular in the series) but we don't see anyone calling her a Mary Sue when I have yet to find a single flaw in her character, and as of ME2, has been just as relevant to the plot (and possible plot) of ME3 and the games overall.

To answer the OP, I think she's one of the most important characters, but the jury is still out on if she is 2nd after Shep.

In conclusion (lol): If you don't like her, you don't like her, but that doesn't make her a MacGuffin or a Mary Sue

[Weltea]

ui,I'm glad I came back here:
@kellyzorah
I like Liara as well but she is undoubtedly a Mary Sue. Sorry.
And Liara does get forced on us (she's one of the four main quest you need to complete before you can go after Saren in ME1 and you need to contact her in ME2 or you can't recruit Thane and Samara,meaning you can't finish the game. Besides her you only have to take Kaidan and Ash with you in ME1 and in ME2 everybody gets a recruitment mission. And unlike any of the other characters she can't die and thinks you're BFFs when she sees you again. And it looks like we "have" to have her along in ME3 as well. ).
Miranda is fanservice but not a Mary Sue. Why? The biggest hint is obviously that she isn't loved by everybody. In fact,barely anyone on board seems to particulary like her. That is the biggest,most obvious trait of a Mary Sue,it's not fulfilled. Her background is that of a Mary Sue's but Liara's is as well.
So why is Liara a Mary Sue? Because everybody loves her (the only one who doesn't is Ash and her behaviour coupled with her comments about Miranda in ME3 makes her seem more jealous than anything else. Even Shepard can't actually be all that mean to her),we even had Wrex comment on that,completely out of the blue,in the demo. She has a exotic look,another trait of a Mary Sue (yes,she's an alien,does that change that in anyway?no,didn't think so). She has no (or at least no plot-relevant) character flaws. She's the youngest but best in her chosen profession. Then she changes her job and becomes an information broker,again being real good at it. She doesn't fail, the only time she does happens off screen (Feron) and just shows you what a great and courages(sp?) and loyal person she is.
Do I really need to go on? I like her as much as every other character we get to meet but SHE IS A MARY SUE. Of course,all these characters are more or less cliched but I hate it when someone gets so obsessed with their favourite character that they become blind to the flaws in their writing.

Modifié par Weltea, 19 février 2012 - 09:27 .

[kellyzorah]

We may not end up agreeing, I think you make your points well, but to me they come across more as perspective than fact (based on facts, but the facts themselves not being causative of Mary Sue status).  This may be a YMMV situation.

Anyway, I haven't played the ME3 Demo yet, but I have seen no evidence of Liara being popular among crew.  She's a shy recluse in ME and most squadmates in ME2 don't even meet her (they may be present when you speak with her, but do not interact or acknowledge one another.)

 Furthermore, being essential to a story has nothing to do with her being there as a point of "force"- because then- all characters are technically "forced" on us.  Force to me, means having choice stripped away in circumstances that DEMAND choice- so none of the characters in ME/2 are forced on us, they are simply a part of the story- but and example of force would essentially be the "illusion" of choice (in game, at least).  Example: we now know Udina is the human councillor in ME3, I chose Anderson and would totally prefer him as a councillor, but for purposes of story (and I'm sure some other things) the developers, in a sense, essentially removed that choice and forced Udina into that role.  See the difference?

Again, this may end up being a case of YMMV. I think you make fair points nonetheless.

Weltea wrote...

ui,I'm glad I came back here:
@kellyzorah
I like Liara as well but she is undoubtedly a Mary Sue. Sorry.
And Liara does get forced on us (she's one of the four main quest you need to complete before you can go after Saren in ME1 and you need to contact her in ME2 or you can't recruit Thane and Samara,meaning you can't finish the game. And it looks like we "have" to have her along in ME3 as well).
Miranda is fanservice but not a Mary Sue. Why? The biggest hint is obviously that she isn't loved by everybody. In fact,barely anyone on board seems to particulary like her. That is the biggest,most obvious trait of a Mary Sue,it's not fulfilled. Her background is that of a Mary Sue's but Liara's is as well.
So why is Liara a Mary Sue? Because everybody loves her (the only one who doesn't is Ash and her behaviour coupled with her comments about Miranda in ME3 makes her seem more jealous than anything else. Even Shepard can't actually be all that mean to her),we even had Wrex comment on that,completely out of the blue,in the demo. She has a exotic look,another trait of a Mary Sue (yes,she's an alien,does that change that in anyway?no,didn't think so). She has no (or at least no plot-relevant) character flaws. She's the youngest but best in her chosen profession. Then she changes her job and becomes an information broker,again being real good at it. She doesn't fail, the only time she does happens off screen (Feron) and just shows you what a great and courages(sp?) and loyal person she is.
Do I really need to go on? I like her as much as every other character we get to meet but SHE IS A MARY SUE. The writing for her could have been a lot better.

[DPSSOC]

kellyzorah wrote...
Also, she's not forced on anyone, lol. You get to choose your romances in ME1 and 2 and (as many people have stated) doesn't have to be involved romantically with Shep in LotSB. I don't see any force there...unless the force is being referred to in terms of her relevance as a character to the story- but as (again) several people have stated- you could say the same about any character- we do not choose who our squadmates are or their relevance to the story- but we do get to choose how we interact with them and what sort of effect on the overall plot they can have.

I'd have to disagree.  In ME1 Liara is very much forced onto the player.  Now in this context when I say forced I mean the writers consistently require us to interact with the character when alternatives are present.  So interactions that could only be Liara (eg. mind meld) don't qualify.

Liara is forced on the player in ME1 by way of the mandatory debriefs after story missions.  Once you pick her up all dialogue in these debriefings is between Shepard and Liara with 1 or 2 lines from one of the human squadmates.  This qualifies because it's consistent (every debrief) and alternatives are present for the most part; there's no reason for example that another character couldn't recommend a course of action in her place.  As proof that this is strictly a Liara thing if you don't pick her up all the non-human squadmates contribute.  Across the briefings from Feros, Noveria, and Virmire if you don't have Liara you get input from Wrex, Garrus, and Tali.  Once you do Therum though it's all Liara and there's no reason for it.

She's even forced on us in ME2 in much the same way, she is presented as the only means of getting information when there are alternatives.  She's the only way you can pick up Samara and Thane, and she's the only one who can tell you how Cerberus got your body despite the fact that Shepard has access to both Miranda and the Illusive Man either of whom could provide that information.

Furthermore Liara is forced on the player when you first meet her in ME2.  Now I understand many people like Liara but it is possible to play a Shepard throughout ME1 who is unfriendly or downright mean to her.  ME2, doesn't matter, if you didn't romance her Shepard hugs her.  Whether you played a Shepard who liked her or not you hug her, no choice, no options, the game is telling you "Shepard likes Liara whether you want him/her to or not."  Again they could have gone for something more neutral like the VS handshake, or even better they could have given you the option (hug, shake, stand off).  Hell they could have made it an interrupt where Liara extends he hand for a shake, you pull the trigger, and instead Shepard pulls her into a hug.

I don't dislike Liara, she's not one of my favourites but I don't have anything against the character, but there's absolutely no reason for the vast majority of mandatory interaction with her and Shepard's forced attitude towards her.  Again as far as character plot devices go she isn't the worst I've seen, but she is what she is.

[Drone223]

Weltea wrote...

ui,I'm glad I came back here:
@kellyzorah
I like Liara as well but she is undoubtedly a Mary Sue. Sorry.
And Liara does get forced on us (she's one of the four main quest you need to complete before you can go after Saren in ME1 and you need to contact her in ME2 or you can't recruit Thane and Samara,meaning you can't finish the game. Besides her you only have to take Kaidan and Ash with you in ME1 and in ME2 everybody gets a recruitment mission. And unlike any of the other characters she can't die and thinks you're BFFs when she sees you again. And it looks like we "have" to have her along in ME3 as well. ).
Miranda is fanservice but not a Mary Sue. Why? The biggest hint is obviously that she isn't loved by everybody. In fact,barely anyone on board seems to particulary like her. That is the biggest,most obvious trait of a Mary Sue,it's not fulfilled. Her background is that of a Mary Sue's but Liara's is as well.
So why is Liara a Mary Sue? Because everybody loves her (the only one who doesn't is Ash and her behaviour coupled with her comments about Miranda in ME3 makes her seem more jealous than anything else. Even Shepard can't actually be all that mean to her),we even had Wrex comment on that,completely out of the blue,in the demo. She has a exotic look,another trait of a Mary Sue (yes,she's an alien,does that change that in anyway?no,didn't think so). She has no (or at least no plot-relevant) character flaws. She's the youngest but best in her chosen profession. Then she changes her job and becomes an information broker,again being real good at it. She doesn't fail, the only time she does happens off screen (Feron) and just shows you what a great and courages(sp?) and loyal person she is.
Do I really need to go on? I like her as much as every other character we get to meet but SHE IS A MARY SUE. Of course,all these characters are more or less cliched but I hate it when someone gets so obsessed with their favourite character that they become blind to the flaws in their writing.

^This

I too like Liara (she has good romance without question), but Bioware are trying too hard to make her important to the plot, thats a major issue I have with Liara

Modifié par Drone223, 20 février 2012 - 12:28 .

[kellyzorah]

Again, this is not a matter of force- this is a matter of story and plot.  Liara is a significant and important character, no doubt, and that is why she is given speaking roles in the debriefings- but if she was not there, of course other characters would fill in that role.  The same thing happens if you do multiple ME2 playthroughs and bring different people on certain adventures or pick them up at different times- often the characters say the same things the others did, just with the change of voice actor (obviously).  Liara being a significant character does not mean she is "forced" onto the player any more than any other character is.  Really consider the use of the word "force"- in any novel, any game, any movie, there are going to be essential and non-essential characters- this does not make any of them more or less forced.  As I said the question is of choice- in ME1 we do not choose our squadmates.  In ME2 we cannot choose squadmates we can simply "not choose" them- but do you consider Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Garrus, and Tali forced on the player?  They are all essential and significant, and they all like us no matter how we behave. So no squadmates are forced on anyone, they are simply a part of the narrative- our choices lie in HOW we interact with them, not in WHETHER he interact with them.  The same goes with Liara.

DPSSOC wrote...

kellyzorah wrote...
Also, she's not forced on anyone, lol. You get to choose your romances in ME1 and 2 and (as many people have stated) doesn't have to be involved romantically with Shep in LotSB. I don't see any force there...unless the force is being referred to in terms of her relevance as a character to the story- but as (again) several people have stated- you could say the same about any character- we do not choose who our squadmates are or their relevance to the story- but we do get to choose how we interact with them and what sort of effect on the overall plot they can have.

I'd have to disagree.  In ME1 Liara is very much forced onto the player.  Now in this context when I say forced I mean the writers consistently require us to interact with the character when alternatives are present.  So interactions that could only be Liara (eg. mind meld) don't qualify.

Liara is forced on the player in ME1 by way of the mandatory debriefs after story missions.  Once you pick her up all dialogue in these debriefings is between Shepard and Liara with 1 or 2 lines from one of the human squadmates.  This qualifies because it's consistent (every debrief) and alternatives are present for the most part; there's no reason for example that another character couldn't recommend a course of action in her place.  As proof that this is strictly a Liara thing if you don't pick her up all the non-human squadmates contribute.  Across the briefings from Feros, Noveria, and Virmire if you don't have Liara you get input from Wrex, Garrus, and Tali.  Once you do Therum though it's all Liara and there's no reason for it.

She's even forced on us in ME2 in much the same way, she is presented as the only means of getting information when there are alternatives.  She's the only way you can pick up Samara and Thane, and she's the only one who can tell you how Cerberus got your body despite the fact that Shepard has access to both Miranda and the Illusive Man either of whom could provide that information.

Furthermore Liara is forced on the player when you first meet her in ME2.  Now I understand many people like Liara but it is possible to play a Shepard throughout ME1 who is unfriendly or downright mean to her.  ME2, doesn't matter, if you didn't romance her Shepard hugs her.  Whether you played a Shepard who liked her or not you hug her, no choice, no options, the game is telling you "Shepard likes Liara whether you want him/her to or not."  Again they could have gone for something more neutral like the VS handshake, or even better they could have given you the option (hug, shake, stand off).  Hell they could have made it an interrupt where Liara extends he hand for a shake, you pull the trigger, and instead Shepard pulls her into a hug.

I don't dislike Liara, she's not one of my favourites but I don't have anything against the character, but there's absolutely no reason for the vast majority of mandatory interaction with her and Shepard's forced attitude towards her.  Again as far as character plot devices go she isn't the worst I've seen, but she is what she is.

Modifié par kellyzorah, 20 février 2012 - 12:30 .

[Vilio1]

"A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional
character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking
noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment
fantasy for the author or reader."

Weltea wrote...
ui,I'm glad I came back here:
@kellyzorah
I like Liara as well but she is undoubtedly a Mary Sue. Sorry.
And Liara does get forced on us (she's one of the four main quest you need to complete before you can go after Saren in ME1 and you need to contact her in ME2 or you can't recruit Thane and Samara,meaning you can't finish the game. Besides her you only have to take Kaidan and Ash with you in ME1 and in ME2 everybody gets a recruitment mission.

wrong

- You can finish the game without recruiting Samara and Thane, it's possible to skip 2 squadmates in ME2
- Tali is a mandatory squadmate in ME1, you also need Garrus or Wrex to complete ME1; Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Mordin and Garrus are "forced on us" in ME2

Weltea wrote...
So why is Liara a Mary Sue? Because everybody loves her (the only one who doesn't is Ash and her behaviour coupled with her comments about Miranda in ME3 makes her seem more jealous than anything else. Even Shepard can't actually be all that mean to her),we even had Wrex comment on that,completely out of the blue,in the demo. She has a exotic look,another trait of a Mary Sue (yes,she's an alien,does that change that in anyway?no,didn't think so).

Ashley doesn't like her (even if you play femShep), one of the new squadmates doesn't like her, and you should destroy the cure (Wrex doesn't like her anymore;))

Weltea wrote...
She has no (or at least no plot-relevant) character flaws.

Liara has some definite flaws. I don't consider plotting revenge for two years and her willingness to kill people to get what she needs a good character trait.

"I killed him, and I would do it again!"

That's nothing a Mary Sue would ever say.

Weltea wrote...
She's the youngest but best in her chosen profession.

so are other characters in the ME universe

We have a perfect krogan and a perfect human in our squad, the best assassin in the galaxy, the most powerful human biotic, the king of all krogan,...

Modifié par Vilio1, 20 février 2012 - 12:34 .

[DPSSOC]

kellyzorah wrote...
Again, this is not a matter of force- this is a matter of story and plot.  Liara is a significant and important character, no doubt, and that is why she is given speaking roles in the debriefings- but if she was not there, of course other characters would fill in that role.  The same thing happens if you do multiple ME2 playthroughs and bring different people on certain adventures or pick them up at different times- often the characters say the same things the others did, just with the change of voice actor (obviously). 

Yes and if Liara were part of that shift you'd have a point.  That's not the case though.  Like I said if you don't have Liara then Garrus, Tali, and Wrex all get about the same representation in mandatory dialogue, and they're roughly on par with Kaidan and Ash who only get more because you get them really early.  If Liara were to enter into the rotation of Garrus, Tali, Wrex then I wouldn't consider her forced.  It's because she completely highjacks the bulk of mandatory dialogue once you pick her up that makes her forced.

Case in point if you do Therum after Noveria and Feros then Liara gets about the same amount of mandatory dialogue as everyone else.  If you do Therum first she gets more mandatory dialogue than all the other squadmates combined, and considering that includes both Kaidan and Ashley who have been with you since dialogue heavy Eden Prime and one of them gets at least a line each debrief that's saying something.

That's why I say Liara is forced on the player, not because we have to talk to her (all characters are forced on us in that regard) but because of the disproportionate representation she gets.

kellyzorah wrote...
As I said the question is of choice- in ME1 we do not choose our squadmates.  In ME2 we cannot choose squadmates we can simply "not choose" them- but do you consider Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Garrus, and Tali forced on the player?  They are all essential and significant, and they all like us no matter how we behave. So no squadmates are forced on anyone, they are simply a part of the narrative- our choices lie in HOW we interact with them, not in WHETHER he interact with them.  The same goes with Liara.

Ok let's role with that for a minute.  So using this criteria Liara is still forced because I can't choose how I interact with her.  I repeat:

DPSSOC wrote...
Furthermore Liara is forced on the player when you first meet her in ME2.  Now I understand many people like Liara but it is possible to play a Shepard throughout ME1 who is unfriendly or downright mean to her.  ME2, doesn't matter, if you didn't romance her Shepard hugs her.  Whether you played a Shepard who liked her or not you hug her, no choice, no options, the game is telling you "Shepard likes Liara whether you want him/her to or not."

I don't get a choice in the matter the game is telling me Shepard likes Liara, not only that I'm being told that Shepard likes Liara more than the VS (remember unromanced Liara get's the same greeting as a romanced VS).  How is that not forced by your own criteria?

I have absolutely no choice in how my Shepard interacts with Liara, I can't get angry with her, I can't dislike her, I can't distrust her, I am only given the option of liking her or not interacting with her, but even that doesn't work because in the next game she's again a mandatory squadmate and I'll again be forced to play a Shepard who likes her, whether I want to or not and whether any of my dialogue choices in either of the previous games support that or not.

So the games give me the option of being a human-centric Renegade who dislikes and distrusts aliens, except for Liara.  Again how is that not forcing the character on us?

[Deventh]

Weltea wrote...

ui,I'm glad I came back here:
@kellyzorah
I like Liara as well but she is undoubtedly a Mary Sue. Sorry.
And Liara does get forced on us (she's one of the four main quest you need to complete before you can go after Saren in ME1 and you need to contact her in ME2 or you can't recruit Thane and Samara,meaning you can't finish the game. Besides her you only have to take Kaidan and Ash with you in ME1 and in ME2 everybody gets a recruitment mission. And unlike any of the other characters she can't die and thinks you're BFFs when she sees you again. And it looks like we "have" to have her along in ME3 as well. ).
Miranda is fanservice but not a Mary Sue. Why? The biggest hint is obviously that she isn't loved by everybody. In fact,barely anyone on board seems to particulary like her. That is the biggest,most obvious trait of a Mary Sue,it's not fulfilled. Her background is that of a Mary Sue's but Liara's is as well.
So why is Liara a Mary Sue? Because everybody loves her (the only one who doesn't is Ash and her behaviour coupled with her comments about Miranda in ME3 makes her seem more jealous than anything else. Even Shepard can't actually be all that mean to her),we even had Wrex comment on that,completely out of the blue,in the demo. She has a exotic look,another trait of a Mary Sue (yes,she's an alien,does that change that in anyway?no,didn't think so). She has no (or at least no plot-relevant) character flaws. She's the youngest but best in her chosen profession. Then she changes her job and becomes an information broker,again being real good at it. She doesn't fail, the only time she does happens off screen (Feron) and just shows you what a great and courages(sp?) and loyal person she is.
Do I really need to go on? I like her as much as every other character we get to meet but SHE IS A MARY SUE. Of course,all these characters are more or less cliched but I hate it when someone gets so obsessed with their favourite character that they become blind to the flaws in their writing.

So your point ?  Liara is not forced on anyone in ME2 and you don't need to play the DLC to continue your story in ME3. While the milk-breasted woman called "Miranda" is and i have to watch her face all along until the very end of ME2. Liara comes for a DLC that lasts about what ? 1-2 hours and it's very fun to play as well and it's not just about Liara, you meet new characters and experience new things along the way. Of course she can't die in ME2 because SHE IS NOT A SQUAD MATE it's freaking obvious she won't. The only time she is your squad is while you help her kill the shadow broker which i repeat myself again IS NOT NEEDED. All this talk and whining about Liara pisses the **** out of me, seriously. Just deal with it like i do with Miranda.

[kellyzorah]

DPSSOC wrote...
Furthermore Liara is forced on the player when you first meet her in ME2.  Now I understand many people like Liara but it is possible to play a Shepard throughout ME1 who is unfriendly or downright mean to her.  ME2, doesn't matter, if you didn't romance her Shepard hugs her.  Whether you played a Shepard who liked her or not you hug her, no choice, no options, the game is telling you "Shepard likes Liara whether you want him/her to or not."

I don't get a choice in the matter the game is telling me Shepard likes Liara, not only that I'm being told that Shepard likes Liara more than the VS (remember unromanced Liara get's the same greeting as a romanced VS).  How is that not forced by your own criteria?

I have absolutely no choice in how my Shepard interacts with Liara, I can't get angry with her, I can't dislike her, I can't distrust her, I am only given the option of liking her or not interacting with her, but even that doesn't work because in the next game she's again a mandatory squadmate and I'll again be forced to play a Shepard who likes her, whether I want to or not and whether any of my dialogue choices in either of the previous games support that or not.

So the games give me the option of being a human-centric Renegade who dislikes and distrusts aliens, except for Liara.  Again how is that not forcing the character on us?

I disagree with a lot of what you're saying but I do get your point- it is inevitable that we have some sort of relationship with Liara- whether it is a strained friendship, a geniune one, or even a romance.  That said, there are a few things that could explain why even a Renegade human-centric Shep would hug Liara s/he was dead for two years and sincerely misses his/her former squad- in a moment of nostalgia s/he gives Liara a hug not out of deep affection but out of grateful familiarity- after all, Shep has a lot to be grateful for from Liara- she was a great help in stopping Sovereign, and she lets you land on Illium for free (and who doesn't love free stuff?!)

That noted, you can distrust her and you can be angry with her- it happens frequently in ME1 and 2 (or at least the option does) and in LotSB you pretty much have no choice BUT to be angry at her for the most part because she is behaving rather ruthlessly.

Also consider, you can disagree and even debate with Garrus many times but you still maintain respect for each other and even friendship- can he die in ME1? Yes, but this is because he is a squadmate and Liara is not. As for Tali, I think she's pretty impossible not to like, but I don't consider either of them forced on us.  Consider unit cohesion- we can get angry with our squadmates, but in the end, when you go through so much together and are ABOUT to go through so much together, you often end up with, if anything, a grudging respect.

Though I have to admit, it would be pretty funny if Liara reaches out for a hug in ME2 and Renshep rejects her out of fear of alien cooties or something.

Modifié par kellyzorah, 20 février 2012 - 07:36 .

[kellyzorah]

 @Deventh I LOVE your banners! 

Team Liara! lol

Modifié par kellyzorah, 20 février 2012 - 07:39 .

[Deventh]

kellyzorah wrote...

 @Deventh I LOVE your banners! 

Team Liara! lol

*bro fist* Amen to that.