90 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazy Jer]

[quote]Lord Aesir wrote...


[/quote]I thought the Arishok was only the leader of the armed forces.
[/quote]

They have three leaders, the Arishok, The Ariqun and the Arigana(or something or other).

Arishok is the military leader, Ariqun presumedly deals with matters relating the the qun, and the Ari-whateveritwas I don't know.

[Xilizhra]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Then why is everyone on this thread applying our standards to it?

Okay, that was my fault for trying to reason with someone that clearly just wants to complain about everyone else not RPing hard enough for them.

I'm more confused about how it seems logical to try and shoehorn modern ethics into a world unlike our modern society.

Again, nothing that's being said here can't be expressed by the PC or hasn't been expressed by someone.

I don't actually recall being able to express anti monarchic system sentiments or discuss the use of blood magic and demons as phsycological warfare.

Tarohne talks about the use of blood magics and demons as psychological warfare, and there's ample opportunity to express disdain towards monarchs and monarchy in Origins. 2 lacks monarchs altogether except for Alistair's cameo, so...

[General User]

What about Sebastian and the Viscount?

[Xilizhra]

General User wrote...

What about Sebastian and the Viscount?

You can talk Sebastian out of getting the throne back and the viscount is so undercut by Meredith that he barely counts.

[Heimdall]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Then why is everyone on this thread applying our standards to it?

Okay, that was my fault for trying to reason with someone that clearly just wants to complain about everyone else not RPing hard enough for them.

I'm more confused about how it seems logical to try and shoehorn modern ethics into a world unlike our modern society.

Again, nothing that's being said here can't be expressed by the PC or hasn't been expressed by someone.

I don't actually recall being able to express anti monarchic system sentiments or discuss the use of blood magic and demons as phsycological warfare.

Tarohne talks about the use of blood magics and demons as psychological warfare, and there's ample opportunity to express disdain towards monarchs and monarchy in Origins. 2 lacks monarchs altogether except for Alistair's cameo, so...

Tarohne I'll grant you, but Origins allows you to disrespect the monarch not the idea of a monarchy.  If it ever does so it is in a "Nobody tells me what to do" manner that comes off as rather juvenile or a "No human king tells me what to do" elf way.

[Xilizhra]

Well, the "no human king tells me what to do" thing remains valid.

[General User]

Is that a dalish or city elf who says that?

Modifié par General User, 06 février 2012 - 01:59 .

[Lazy Jer]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I always thought Tarohne's plan was brilliant. It may realistically be better than Anders' plan - i.e. it can achieve the same goals with less casualties.

It really boils down to DA2's most fundamental problem, really:

Hawke: "Oh hello there Tarohne! I think your plan is brilliant! This here is Anders, who pretty much wants exactly what you want, except he refused to call his Justice a Demon. This here is Merrill, who is as great a friend of Demons/Spirits as you will ever be. And I am Hawke, Apostate Blood Mage, who had specifically chosen to stay in Kirkwall in order to infiltrate and topple the Templar Order. Let's sit down for some tea, shall we?"

Tarohne: "DIIIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!11!!"

Well keep in that Tarohne's a couple of templars short of a tower herself.

[Heimdall]

General User wrote...

Is that a dalish or city elf who says that?

any elf, though I think dwarves might be able to say it too.  I always just interpretted it as flat out racism

[Lazy Jer]

Rifneno wrote...

Sorry, what was that? I couldn't hear over the sound of being screamed racial slurs (Shem!) and arrows being fired at me for having rounded ears.

Surely, Rifneno, you're misreading the situation.  You see Shemlin means "Quick Children".  Since they were just shouting "Shem" (meaning "quick") then they were just commenting on how fast a runner you are.  The arrows were just a friendly way of indicating to you which way the nearest settlement was, since you were clearly lost.  Arrows, after all, are the classic way of indicating direction.

[WhiteKnyght]

Templars and Mages working together is a good idea. Thrask was in the right, but had poor choosing of allies.

I would compare the Templars to Cerberus from the Mass Effect series. Their alleged goals are similar and are somewhat understandable. But their methods are overzealous and awful.

- Cerberus claims to want to look out for human interest. IE keep them from ending up abused by the other races.(Although The Illusive Man's method of that is to establish human dominance by any means necessary.)
- The Templars claim to want to protect people from magic. IE look out for the interests of the normal people to keep them from ending up abused by magic. (And they do that by maintaining dominance over the mages)

They are also similar in that they have corrupt leaders(Lambert/Meredith/Etc, TIM), they both go to extremes to meet their ends, and a lot of their recruits join simply out of prejudice.(Hatred for aliens = Hatred for magic.)

General User wrote...

Is that a dalish or city elf who says that?

Actually I think the correct quote is "Your welcome means nothing to me, human lord."

And I believe any non-human Warden can say it.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 06 février 2012 - 02:03 .

[Rifneno]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I know you're not roleplaying to that extent. I just don't understand why you think it makes sense to apply such ethics and you have attacked me for trying to understand. I'm not being passive aggressive.

Alright. I still don't swallow that one can really not know why people view things with their own ethics, but if you really are just legitimately curious then I apologize. Either way, I'm getting out of it. =/

Lazy Jer wrote...

No...absolutely not. I am NOT getting drawn into another Mage-Templar debate.

'kay. Then why even say it?

General User wrote...

Is that a dalish or city elf who says that?

Either one I believe. Why I don't really miss the ability to play an elf in DA2. Their default position seems to be "racist dick." Not all of course, but a bigger percentage of elves will give a human warden racist crap than will humans give an elven warden. Of course, when it comes to racism nobody holds a candle to the dwarves, who truly and utterly hate their own.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I always thought Tarohne's plan was brilliant. It may realistically be better than Anders' plan - i.e. it can achieve the same goals with less casualties.

It really boils down to DA2's most fundamental problem, really:

Hawke: "Oh hello there Tarohne! I think your plan is brilliant! This here is Anders, who pretty much wants exactly what you want, except he refused to call his Justice a Demon. This here is Merrill, who is as great a friend of Demons/Spirits as you will ever be. And I am Hawke, Apostate Blood Mage, who had specifically chosen to stay in Kirkwall in order to infiltrate and topple the Templar Order. Let's sit down for some tea, shall we?"

Tarohne: "DIIIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!11!!"

Anders' had more large scale potential I think. I could see Tarohne managing to bring the Kirkwall Order down but I don't know it had much of a chance to change things across Thedas. Anders' plan wasn't likely to do so either but I think it had a better chance. More importantly while their immediate goal of taking down the templars was the same, their long term goal was night and day. Anders wanted mages to have equality and freedom, a worthy and noble goal. Tarohne wanted another Tevinter with mages ruling via a blood fist, a horrible and evil goal.
Whether the fight should have been forced depends on a crucial thing that (IIRC) we don't know for certain. Whether Tarohne herself was possessed. The main character of the game can't become possessed long term because it takes control away from the player. If those demons are willing to work together with people they don't have real control over though, I can see it being a viable option. I have serious doubt it is though. Demons are occasionally usable in the short term but I can't recall one ever being a long term ally to anyone without betraying them.

Lazy Jer wrote...

Well keep in that Tarohne's a couple of templars short of a tower herself.

Ha. Nice wording. Unfortunately, as with everything...

Morrigan disapproves. (-5)

[dragonflight288]

Either one I believe. Why I don't really miss the ability to play an elf in DA2. Their default position seems to be "racist dick." Not all of course, but a bigger percentage of elves will give a human warden racist crap than will humans give an elven warden. Of course, when it comes to racism nobody holds a candle to the dwarves, who truly and utterly hate their own.

Hey! As a dwarf I both resent and resemble that remark. lol.

any elf, though I think dwarves might be able to say it too. I always just interpretted it as flat out racism

Dwarves can say it. Heck, the Dwarven Noble can make many comments on humans. In the origin story, (s)he can be astonished that humans are the only means of escaping Bhelen's "justice." May call them honorable, for humans. Can be skeptical that good stone and steel is traded for silks. And even call out Ser Jory's reluctance to go through the joining as typical human cowardice.

[Lazy Jer]

Rifneno wrote...

'kay. Then why even say it?

I'm trying to convince myself.

Ha. Nice wording. Unfortunately, as with everything...

Morrigan disapproves. (-5)

Morrigan's just mad that she didn't think of it.

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 07 février 2012 - 04:09 .