253 réponses à ce sujet

[Chala]

Arcian wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I'm not saying it was Protheans... but it was:

http://t0.gstatic.co...ReqsR099eUtEPWQ

Oh god, my sides.

I f***ing love that show.

Please, Arcian, your avatar. Stop ruining my childhood...

[Bad King]

didymos made a gif showing the transformation of protheans into collectors via the vision from ME2:

http://social.biowar...30462/1#8831917

Modifié par Bad King, 04 février 2012 - 04:54 .

[Annihilator27]

Arcian wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I'm not saying it was Protheans... but it was:

http://t0.gstatic.co...ReqsR099eUtEPWQ

Oh god, my sides.

I f***ing love that show.

Same here. "Im not saying they are Protheans,But Protheans"

[thoththeblack]

If the Protheans were an insectoid race, it is possible they had multiple "looks". Essentially, different castes, each with a different physical form, customized for specific tasks.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

annihilator27 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I'm not saying it was Protheans... but it was:

http://t0.gstatic.co...ReqsR099eUtEPWQ

Oh god, my sides.

I f***ing love that show.

Same here. "Im not saying they are Protheans,But Protheans"

"In the ancient texts!!"

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

If the simple explanation works then why can't we all just go along with it? I'll accept the theory of the Protheans been a galactic empire rather than a species of alien, at least until proven otherwise.

Pretty much you'll just accept whatever Bioware throws at you.

Don't you have any standards?

Why so worried about other people's standards? Control freak?

I knew when they made the messed up holo recordings of Vigil, etc., that they were going to keep what the Protheans actually looked like vague. The statues could have been anything, something religous, self portraits, veneration of an earlier race, etc.

[Annihilator27]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

The protheans were an empire comprised of several species.

...That's likely a recent (as of ME2 or later) development, though. Shame BioWare didn't go for the humanoid cthulhu tentacle beasts in ME1.

Yeah, I was hoping they would look more mind flayer-ish. 

Interesting. All these recent Mass Effect and Halo relevations of late are similar.

[ZehnWaters]

The fact that they can argue their retcon doesn't not make it a retcon. Think of how the Dark Phoenix Saga was handled. It's clear that they intended it to be the real Jean all along, but then they went back and said "Oh, no! That was really just the Phoenix who created a copy of Jean's body and inhabited it.' It was never stated otherwise during the original run and the retcon works perfectly without having to add any additional explanations, so that means it's not a retcon, right? Wrong. That was not the intention of the original artists, nor was it the clear and obvious implication. Bioware clearly intended for the Protheans to look like tentacle-faced cthulu things. There was no hidden agenda of, well they secretly look like *this*! They intended them to look like what we thought until it no longer worked in their favour, then they changed their minds, using a lame excuse that everyone is going to see though, even if they accept as fairly legitimate.

Modifié par ZehnWaters, 04 février 2012 - 08:26 .

[incinerator950]

ZehnWaters wrote...

The fact that they can argue their retcon doesn't not make it a retcon. Think of how the Dark Phoenix Saga was handled. It's clear that they intended it to be the real Jean all along, but then they went back and said "Oh, no! That was really just the Phoenix who created a copy of Jean's body and inhabited it.' It was never stated otherwise during the original run and the retcon works perfectly without having to add any additional explanations, so that means it's not a retcon, right? Wrong. That was not the intention of the original artists, nor was the the clear and obvious implication. Bioware clearly intended for the Protheans to look like tentacle-faced cthulu things. There was no hidden agenda of, well they secretly look like *this*! They intended them to look like what we thought until it no longer worked in their favour, then they changed their minds, using a lame excuse that everyone is going to see though, even if they accept as fairly legitimate.

Warhammer 40k retcons its material fairly between every five to ten years, which is practically every new edition. 

[Candidate 88766]

We know now that there were multiple Prothean species in their Empire, so if this is really bothering people so much then just assume that the species transformed into the Collectors was different to the species do research on Illos - perhaps the species turned into Collectors was the only one suitable for that purpose. We're never explicitly told that the statues on Illos aren't Prothean - its implied they could be from an older civilization, but never outright stated as far as we know.

Even if it is a retcon, if it can be explained away as easily as that does it really matter?

[Bad King]

Han Shot First wrote...

There has been some retconning.

Prior to Mass Effect 3 the Protheans looked like the vaguely squid-faced beings portrayed on the Ilos statues and in all of Shepard's visions.

LO! Thar be spoilers yonder..........









As of Mass Effect 3, with the the announced Prothean squadmate, their appearance has been altered to look more like the Collectors, though less insectoid. The face tentacles are gone.

This is one decision that I think Bioware got wrong. First, I think it is a mistake to bring back the Protheans. Like the Dwemer of Elder Scrolls, Bioware should have kept them dead. Second, once the decision was locked in that there would be a Prothean squaddie, they should have created a character that resembled the Ilos statues and the Prothean visions more closely. With the retconned appearance the statues and beings in the visions now make as much sense as Mass Effect: Deception.

Preorder cancelled.

Just kidding. But I think Bioware fumbled the ball here.

The Dwemer were kept dead?

[ZehnWaters]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

We know now that there were multiple Prothean species in their Empire, so if this is really bothering people so much then just assume that the species transformed into the Collectors was different to the species do research on Illos - perhaps the species turned into Collectors was the only one suitable for that purpose. We're never explicitly told that the statues on Illos aren't Prothean - its implied they could be from an older civilization, but never outright stated as far as we know.

Even if it is a retcon, if it can be explained away as easily as that does it really matter?

Except there being multiple races is also a retcon.  That WAS explicitly stated earlier in the game.  The Protheans were the only space-faring RACE at their time.  And I didn't say I didn't accept it, just that it's a retcon and like all retcons (good or not) requires a bit of an eye-roll.

[The Spamming Troll]

shinobi602 wrote...

*sigh* He was in the trailer for crying out loud...

can someone point me out a link to this trailer?????

i tried finding it but googles not helping, and i dont really know what im looking for.

thansk!!!

[Doctalen]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

*sigh* He was in the trailer for crying out loud...

can someone point me out a link to this trailer?????

i tried finding it but googles not helping, and i dont really know what im looking for.

thansk!!!

It's the Special forces trailer. You can see him real quick when shepard is walking and talking to the group. They pan over his one side

[The Spamming Troll]

damnit i dont see it. at the 1 minute mark, when shepard is comming out of the drop shuttle??? it looks like a bunch of humans.

wheres is it!

[Slayer299]

Jog0907 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Shifty-looking Chicken wrote...

They looked more like Collectors.

They didn't look anything like Collectors but hurray for retcons!

inb4 some moron comes in here and tells me it isn't a retcon.

Its only a retcon it there was an actual reveal and confirmation of how protheans looked in me1, which there wasnt you just assumed they looked like the statues on Ilos and you were proven wrong in that assumption. Just because a statue looks that way doesnt mean those who made it would look like it (assuming it was even the prothean the actual sculptors).

We humans make statues of lions, gargoyles  and others with exagerated human proportions (the very first ones we made were like this) and often replaced limbs I dont see how it would be different for other races to also make sculptures that dont look like themselves.

The problem with that is humans don't fill an entire city everywhere with statues of lions, tigers, gargoyles and exaggerated looking humans. You'll find them on the roof of old buildings, churches (which there aren't that many of), outside the occasional library, sure, but not how they were all over in Ilos.

[Matt251287]

andy69156915 wrote...

It's a retcon, of the retroactive type, plain and simple. Saying otherwise is denial.

Anyway, let me throw one more piece of evidence onto the pile as to why it's a retcon. Okay, so Protheans have always looked like Collectors? Well, regardless of what we saw in the visions, Shepard apparently 100% understood every little last thing about the beacon visions by the end of ME1. If the Protheans looked like Collectors, Shepard would know it.

In that case, why is it that when you first see Collectors Shepard isn't automatically going "holy crap, Protheans are Collectors?!". I mean, on Horizon and possibly Freedom's Progress, Shepard should have INSTANTLY recognized Collectors as Protheans at first sight. That vision burned into the brain isn't something Shepard will just forget the details of. For that matter, Shepard wouldn't be shocked on the Collector ship when it's confirmed because Shepard would be like "well, they look almost exactly the same, no surprise there". Instead, Shepard is "HOLY CRAP, I never saw this coming!"

Shepard's reaction is most telling.

Basically This.

LordJeyl wrote...

Sigh.

It's a retcon. Shiala identifies the Protheans as a race, not a society of multiple races. If multiple races were involved, some would have thought differently than others. That is not what Shiala stated.

Bioware is only making the Protheans look like Collectors now because, in a common practice when you want to reach out to a broader audience, they think gamers are too stupid to remember the details regarding how the collectors no longer resemble what the Protheans looked like. So they're relying on what's familiar and choosing to "forget" those important details they brought up. All we have to do is wait for the "blizzard retcon" response of "We like it better this way!".

And this.

Tazzmission wrote...

The tentacle-faced statues on Ilos are not, I repeat NOT, Protheans. They were a primitive race that the Prothean empire conquered, similar to how the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and Incas in real life. The reason why the Conduit's research lab on Ilos was not detected by the Reapers 50,000 years ago was because the Protheans disguised it as the ruins of this primitive race, a race that the Reapers assumed was already destroyed.

Basically, the statues on Ilos are just Bioware trolling us.

And what is this rubbish? If this is the official line it's awful.

You're right about one thing, Bioware is Trolling us.

Modifié par Matt251287, 04 février 2012 - 09:28 .

[incinerator950]

Sigh.

It's a retcon. Shiala identifies the Protheans as a race, not a society of multiple races. If multiple races were involved, some would have thought differently than others. That is not what Shiala stated.

Bioware is only making the Protheans look like Collectors now because, in a common practice when you want to reach out to a broader audience, they think gamers are too stupid to remember the details regarding how the collectors no longer resemble what the Protheans looked like. So they're relying on what's familiar and choosing to "forget" those important details they brought up. All we have to do is wait for the "blizzard retcon" response of "We like it better this way!".

If thats the case, then they did a good job if they let people get away with choosing Jacob as their tech specialist and grunt as their squad leaders. 

I personally like the Collectors insect appearence.  It did mention that the Reapers extensively re-engineered their bio-chemistry.

[Bad King]

Matt251287 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

It's a retcon, of the retroactive type, plain and simple. Saying otherwise is denial.

Anyway, let me throw one more piece of evidence onto the pile as to why it's a retcon. Okay, so Protheans have always looked like Collectors? Well, regardless of what we saw in the visions, Shepard apparently 100% understood every little last thing about the beacon visions by the end of ME1. If the Protheans looked like Collectors, Shepard would know it.

In that case, why is it that when you first see Collectors Shepard isn't automatically going "holy crap, Protheans are Collectors?!". I mean, on Horizon and possibly Freedom's Progress, Shepard should have INSTANTLY recognized Collectors as Protheans at first sight. That vision burned into the brain isn't something Shepard will just forget the details of. For that matter, Shepard wouldn't be shocked on the Collector ship when it's confirmed because Shepard would be like "well, they look almost exactly the same, no surprise there". Instead, Shepard is "HOLY CRAP, I never saw this coming!"

Shepard's reaction is most telling.

Basically This.

LordJeyl wrote...

Sigh.

It's a retcon. Shiala identifies the Protheans as a race, not a society of multiple races. If multiple races were involved, some would have thought differently than others. That is not what Shiala stated.

Bioware is only making the Protheans look like Collectors now because, in a common practice when you want to reach out to a broader audience, they think gamers are too stupid to remember the details regarding how the collectors no longer resemble what the Protheans looked like. So they're relying on what's familiar and choosing to "forget" those important details they brought up. All we have to do is wait for the "blizzard retcon" response of "We like it better this way!".

And this.

Tazzmission wrote...

The tentacle-faced statues on Ilos are not, I repeat NOT, Protheans. They were a primitive race that the Prothean empire conquered, similar to how the Spanish conquered the Aztecs and Incas in real life. The reason why the Conduit's research lab on Ilos was not detected by the Reapers 50,000 years ago was because the Protheans disguised it as the ruins of this primitive race, a race that the Reapers assumed was already destroyed.

Basically, the statues on Ilos are just Bioware trolling us.

And what is this rubbish? If this is the official line it's awful.

You're right about one thing, Bioware is Trolling us.

Agreed. To all the people saying "The statues were never specifically said to be protheans", I disagree, as Shepard's vision show similar tenticled aliens suffering at the hands of the reapers. The visions confirm that the statues on Ilos were indeed prothean. If BioWare says otherwise, and the statues weren't protheans, then it is a retcon.

Modifié par Bad King, 05 février 2012 - 02:12 .

[Agamo45]

Bad King wrote...

They originally looked like thin humans covered in tenticles (see the statues on Ilos, Hock's statue, the codex image, and Shepard's visions) but...

***SPOILER ALERT***



The ME3 artbook shows them to be more like a collector with a mouth. Not necessarily a hard retcon as it's possible that there were multiple prothean races.



***END SPOILER***

It's an annoying retcon, nowhere in ME1, ME2, or any of the other lore are the Protheans said to have been a conglomerate of multiple races. In fact, I believe it was stated several times that the Protheans were the only spacefaring race around at the time. And they were only ever referred to as a single race. It's kind of irritating how BW seems to think we're too dumb to follow the backstory and that they can make retcons without us noticing.

[MindoirsSoleSurvivor]

Someone who actually read the script: Can you answer if the prothean actually has legit conversations with you aboard the normandy or if he is just another zaeed/kasumi. 

[Chuvvy]

Bad King wrote...

They originally looked like thin humans covered in tenticles (see the statues on Ilos, Hock's statue, the codex image, and Shepard's visions) but...

***SPOILER ALERT***



The ME3 artbook shows them to be more like a collector with a mouth. Not necessarily a hard retcon as it's possible that there were multiple prothean races.



***END SPOILER***

Vigil described the Protheans as a single spieces. They're pulling this out of their ass. I don't really mind, but I'd rather they said they're retconing it instead of making up some bull**** reason. It's like what they did with the Qunari.

[AxisEvolve]

MindoirsSoleSurvivor wrote...

Someone who actually read the script: Can you answer if the prothean actually has legit conversations with you aboard the normandy or if he is just another zaeed/kasumi. 

I'm not sure to what extent, but he does have actual conversations with you.

[robarcool]

Wow, there is a lot of information in this thread, even if consists of spoilers. Also, some very nice explanations from LuCos and Tranzmission. Thank you guys!