20 réponses à ce sujet

[NWelf]

Ok im just wondering if I start romancing fenris, up to where he leaves me in act 2, then romance anders and have him move in, if I then break it off with anders in act 3 after justice quest, can I start my romance with fenris back up?? or is his romance flag permanetly turned off??

[ladyshamen]

If you romance anyone after Fenris, there's no getting him back. Sadly.

[NWelf]

Thats a bummer, they should really put something in there so that if you decide to break it off after he has moved in, so that you can continue to romance someone else.

[Gervaise]

It's one of those sad condundrums of DA2 that the romances are so inflexible, unlike Origins where you could choose one person over another and then realise your mistake and reconcile with the first.

It was really bummed out by the fact that the first time I romanced Isabella, my Hawke felt hurt when she was walking out straight after sex but to cover his hurt pride agreed that it was just a casual no feelings relationship, which not only messed up any chance of moving on to Fenris but also meant that the Isabella relationship never progressed any further than casual sex either. By Act 3 my Hawke wanted to confide that he had been a total idiot and he loved Isabella but because of what he had said back in Act 2, this possibility never came up.

It always seemed a bit hard on Hawke that Fenris could walk out on him with barely any explanation and yet Hawke had to live like a monk for the next 3 years or Fenris would never come back. If Hawke could forgive Fenris, why couldn't Fenris do the same for Hawke?

[Harle Cerulean]

First, if you think Fenris didn't explain why he left, you clearly weren't listening to him.

Second, have you considered that for Fenris, the issue isn't that Hawke didn't "live like a monk," it's that Fenris believes Hawke would be happier with someone other than him? And when Hawke moves on to someone else, that's Fenris' 'proof' - Hawke doesn't need him, Hawke can find happiness with other people. Fenris even says, if you do manage to get back together with him in Act III, that he wanted Hawke to hate him, he thought it would be better that way. Hawke getting with someone else tells Fenris that Hawke has lost interest, that his intent to drive Hawke away worked, and thus, it ends.

The Hawke and Fenris relationship can only be resumed if Hawke doesn't sleep with someone, because sleeping with someone tells Fenris that Hawke doesn't want or need him, and he doesn't want to moon over Hawke forever. When Hawke doesn't get with anyone else, their relationship remains in a holding pattern; when Hawke does get with someone else, even if it's a temporary hookup, that indicates to Fenris that Hawke is done, that he's moved on.

And so then Fenris moves on.

[Gervaise]

I'm well aware what the rationale is meant to be for why the Fenris romance operates as it does but unless you had read Forums discussions you wouldn't know this and need to be clairvoyant to realise why, say having a one night stand with Isabella will ruin any chance of a romance with Fenris. First time I played, it was frankly perplexing but since I was playing that Hawke as someone who was totally hooked on Fenris, I just kept hanging in there hoping that eventually it would work out. It didn't help matters that initially we seemed to be heading for a rival romance, then reversed and became a friendship one, so it took an interminably long time to get to the first stage of the romance in Act 2 and most of Act 3 before we got back together again.

The fact is though that if you don't romance either Fenris or Isabella then the two of them get together in Act 3 and it is totally based on sex, nothing else. So if Fenris can indulge in this sort of relationship, then surely he could understand that Hawke might have done the same whilst still only having true feelings for Fenris.

The real problem is that there is no two way dialogue that Hawke can initiate. You have to wait until you get a flag prompt telling you to drop in. Compare this with Origins where Zevran can suddenly refuse sex with you, having previously been happy to do so, and you can go back and ask him why. Or after a particularly tough battle you can just turn to Alistair and give him a kiss. And with all the Origins romances, if they think you are being a bit too friendly with a rival, then can call you out over it. It just allowed you to be a bit more proactive and know where you stood rather than getting most of the way through the game, still being given heart icons for conversaions, only to discover (on the Forums) that something you did at the beginning of Act 2 was the reason that the romance never progressed.

[esper]

Isabella is really, really clear since she has a broken heart icon for saying it is just for fun. The only case the broken heart icon does not break the romance is if you beg and ensure Anders that it was a trick with Torpor and nothing really happened.

And I think that is is people's logic that sometime is missing. Fenris makes it sound very, clearly like you are broken up if you have spent three years living with Anders/Merrill why should he haven't moved on by then? Of course if you don't make up with Isabella after the qunari incident then perhaps you can ask why we can't go Fenris, Isabella, Fenris. But Isabella is the only romance i haven't done so I don't know it's details beyond youtube.

I appreciate the inflexibilty here, because I found that the flexebility in Origins made less sense sometimes. Espicially since it made it very hard to just be friends.

[Dutchess]

I seem to recall the "it was just for fun" option with Isabela had no broken heart icon but the three arrows that simply indicated a choice.

Hmm, I think that is at the beginning of the conversation you can have. The other option is to ask "what about love?" and that one triggers the romance. I believe at the end of that conversation you do get a broken heart option which says something along lines that it was for fun after all. But the first one doesn't, as far as I remember.

And it's unfortunate part of this "inflexibility" is simply caused by Fenris' romance being quite buggy. Having flirted with Isabela just once and having her show up at your estate can ruin his romance.

[esper]

renjility wrote...

I seem to recall the "it was just for fun" option with Isabela had no broken heart icon but the three arrows that simply indicated a choice.

Hmm, I think that is at the beginning of the conversation you can have. The other option is to ask "what about love?" and that one triggers the romance. I believe at the end of that conversation you do get a broken heart option which says something along lines that it was for fun after all. But the first one doesn't, as far as I remember.

And it's unfortunate part of this "inflexibility" is simply caused by Fenris' romance being quite buggy. Having flirted with Isabela just once and having her show up at your estate can ruin his romance.

We are talking about after consumating the romance, getting back together in act 3 even if you have slept with someone else after meeting with Fenris. Thus the bug that can prevent from even getting the romance flags before are irrelevant since they were not intentional from the game design.

I might be wrong about Isabella, I have only ever youtubed her romance so I admit I might remember it wrong.

[Gervaise]

Yes, there are 3 options with Isabella - broken heart, plus 2 heart ones - "let's not let feelings enter into it" and "you're afraid of being loved" or something like that. The middle one where my Hawke pretended not to want feelings to get in the way but nevertheless was a heart icon, was the one which didn't really seem to lead anywhere - we were in a relationship (Isabella turned up after mother's death) but there was never any declaration of love (or the equivalent) which I understand does happen if you take the other option.

However, so far as Fenris is concerned, to date I have found that even if I choose the broken heart option with Isabella then the Fenris romance just won't happen, even though you still keep on getting the heart icons which make you think it is still on. Then after Bitter Pill, when he turns up at your mansion and you say he doesn't have to go, he responds that he thinks it is better if he does, and that's it. So I have either had to avoid flirting with Isabella, so she doesn't turn up at my mansion, or refuse to have sex with her when she does.

I appreciate that if you have asked someone to move in with you, that does imply a much more serious relationship and so it is understandable that Fenris wouldn't want to take up with you again on the rebound from Anders. However, what is rather strange is that you can get all the way through to a reconciliation with Fenris in Act 3 and then reach a trigger point in the Merrill romance that allows it to proceed, based on some flirty comment back at the beginning of Act 2. You'd think that if making a serious commitment to Anders or Merrill immediately stops any other romances from occuring, that it should be equally true of Fenris or Isabella for that matter, once they have declared their feelings for you in Act 3.

So I'm inclined to think that the problems that occur in the game with romances have less to do with the intended psychology of the individuals involved or more to do with not flagging them up properly and the dependence on certain trigger points.

[Dutchess]

Gervaise wrote...


However, so far as Fenris is concerned, to date I have found that even if I choose the broken heart option with Isabella then the Fenris romance just won't happen, even though you still keep on getting the heart icons which make you think it is still on. Then after Bitter Pill, when he turns up at your mansion and you say he doesn't have to go, he responds that he thinks it is better if he does, and that's it. So I have either had to avoid flirting with Isabella, so she doesn't turn up at my mansion, or refuse to have sex with her when she does.

That's the bug I was talking about. Even if you don't sleep with Isabela when she shows up at your estate, you may lose the chance to pursue the Fenris romance. 

[NWelf]

Gervaise wrote...

It's one of those sad condundrums of DA2 that the romances are so inflexible, unlike Origins where you could choose one person over another and then realise your mistake and reconcile with the first.

It was really bummed out by the fact that the first time I romanced Isabella, my Hawke felt hurt when she was walking out straight after sex but to cover his hurt pride agreed that it was just a casual no feelings relationship, which not only messed up any chance of moving on to Fenris but also meant that the Isabella relationship never progressed any further than casual sex either. By Act 3 my Hawke wanted to confide that he had been a total idiot and he loved Isabella but because of what he had said back in Act 2, this possibility never came up.

It always seemed a bit hard on Hawke that Fenris could walk out on him with barely any explanation and yet Hawke had to live like a monk for the next 3 years or Fenris would never come back. If Hawke could forgive Fenris, why couldn't Fenris do the same for Hawke?

Yea I miss the romance of Origins, it seemed to flow much better, and like you said, if you broke it off with one, you could start one with another character at the next conversation or two, once you had informed them that the other relationship was over.  It would just seem to make more sense that even if you consumated one relationship and had them move in, that if you broke it off later, that the romance flags for the other characters should become active again so that you can persue a different romance, instead of having to be alone for the rest of the game.  I mean people make mistakes, they break up and get back together all the time.  It would be realistic to turn the flags back on after a breakup, no matter where in the game the breakup occurred.

[Harle Cerulean]

I don't know about you, but in my group of friends, if someone broke up/got divorced with their significant other, no one in the group would think "Well gosh, maybe I've got a chance now!"

Because we're a group of friends, not a group of potential love interests who only hang around because we want to bang each other. Also, generally speaking, you don't date your friends' exes. It's a bad idea! So, when you choose a love interest - especially when you go as far as inviting one to live with you, and being with them for three years! - the rest of the group aren't going to be open to starting a relationship later, that's how it is.

The fact that the characters by and large aren't just hanging around waiting for Hawke to decide that he/she wants THEM now instead of that OTHER one is pretty awesome, IMO. If it means you can't just partnerhop at will like in DA:O - well, that's too bad, but it's more like actual relationships! Only the Maker gets to have entire churches of men and women married to him in absentia, sorry.

[Gervaise]

These are hardly normal relationships. In real life you would not immediately hit on someone the moment after they tell you their former master wants to flay their hide (Fenris) or think it appropriate to crack a flirty joke about the spirit not having any complaints about the body they are inhabiting (Anders), in both cases I thought this was in extremely poor taste on Hawke's part considering they had only just met and both these guys clearly felt a degree of angst about what they had revealed.

And clearly the other party members did not feel anything wrong in hitting on other people's exes, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to jump from Isabella to Anders or Merrill. I would imagine that Anders takes positive delight in grabbing Hawke from Fenris - he certainly makes enough comments that way in front of Fenris, culminating in "you should really go for someone more open minded", but then I never really thought of Anders and Fenris as friends with each other. So I really don't think the group are that bothered, apart from Isabella who tells Hawke she will personally emasculate him if he hurts Merrill, which is hardly likely to happen since by that stage all romance flags have been removed.

My first run through it took so long to get to first stage romance with Fenris that my mother had already died, so never got the visit after her death that at least showed he still cared. Instead, after he walked out, the next thing I heard was him talking to Anders saying that it was over - which was news to me as I thought he'd just needed a bit a space to sort out his emotional trauma. So three years later Hawke was still in limbo with no indication as to how things stood. We killed Danarius - still nothing. In fact I only flirted with Zevran to see if I got a reaction and bingo, finally some indication that Fenris still considered us an item. However, it was only after the gift of the mercy sword finally got our friendship rating high enough that the Questioning Beliefs triggered and the following romance dialogue. It was too episodic and utterly dependent on trigger points. Don't get me wrong, I love the Fenris romance, I would just have liked it to flow a bit more and been allowed to initiate dialogue with him in the way I could in Origins. And if a romance was no longer possible, it would have been nice to be able to talk to him and have him say, aren't you with so and so? I never expected the other characters to hang around waiting for Hawke to decide he wanted them but it seemed that was exactly what Hawke was expected to do, particularly where Fenris was concerned.

[NWelf]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I don't know about you, but in my group of friends, if someone broke up/got divorced with their significant other, no one in the group would think "Well gosh, maybe I've got a chance now!"

Because we're a group of friends, not a group of potential love interests who only hang around because we want to bang each other. Also, generally speaking, you don't date your friends' exes. It's a bad idea! So, when you choose a love interest - especially when you go as far as inviting one to live with you, and being with them for three years! - the rest of the group aren't going to be open to starting a relationship later, that's how it is.

The fact that the characters by and large aren't just hanging around waiting for Hawke to decide that he/she wants THEM now instead of that OTHER one is pretty awesome, IMO. If it means you can't just partnerhop at will like in DA:O - well, that's too bad, but it's more like actual relationships! Only the Maker gets to have entire churches of men and women married to him in absentia, sorry.

Yes well these arent exactly normal relationships, I mean, your fighting demons, qunari, and maker knows what else, you have a possesed mage and a tortured slave as friends.  I doubt they would begrudge the other happiness if they could find it in these turbulent times.  Like If you romance fenris and he leaves you, then you romance anders, fenris tells anders in party to be good to hawke and to not break her heart.  SO I think that some variety is possible, I just dont think the developers thought about what would happen if you later broke it off with anders after finding out hes been lying to you all this time.  SO it wouldnt be such a strech to go back to fenris and beg his forgiveness for being an idiot.  People in real life do that all the time, friends or not.  And I hardly think fenris and anders are friends, so that arguement really doesnt hold up in that situation.  And if fenris truely loves her as he seems to by the whole break her heart and I will kill you line he gives anders, you would think he would give the relationship another chance if given the opportunity.

[Heidenreich]

He wouldn't, simply because he doesn't believe he deserves Hawke (male or female). He doesn't feel he's worthy, and leaving Hawke post sexytimes only makes him believe it more. So if a Hawke moves on, it's a validation to him that he was right. That he didn't deserve them and he is OK with them moving on.

Even if he still cares for Hawke all those years later, he or she has made it clear that they have moved on.

Just because Hawke doesn't sleep with his or her friends, doesn't mean they lived like a monk either. I know my Hawke didn't. She just didn't sleep with any of her friends.

[Bekkael]

If you want to do a series of romances in one playthrough, I think you have to do *snicker* Fenris last, but before the end of the second act, correct? He's just special that way.

[Thiefy]

Fenris just isn't the type of guy to go crawling and begging back to someone who doesn't seem to want them anymore.

[NWelf]

Well regardless, I still think you should have options in act 3 so that if you want to dump someone, say anders after hes lied to you, and start a romance or rekindle an old romance, you should be able to do it, seems unrealistic to get stuck with one person that may or may not interest you anymore for the rest of the game. I mean theres not even a breakup option in act 3 for anders, even if you turn down his last quest. So even if you wanted to just break it off with him, you cant cause theres no broken heart dialog during justice or his followup questioning beliefs quest, whether or not you got him into the chantry or not.

[NWelf]

There should be at least one broken heart option during each conversation in each act, so that if you want to you can end the relationship, cause I know if my hubby lied to me and then went an blew up a building I know Id be dumping his butt like a hot potato.

[NWelf]

sorry double post

Modifié par NWelf, 09 février 2012 - 12:41 .