136 réponses à ce sujet

[SykoWolf]

I reckon it should be like this-
Assault rifle- more accuracy and damage, good against health and armour
SMG- high ammo count, good against shields and biotic barriers

[Stardusk78]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Adhin wrote...

Yeah my Vanguard may carry just a Shotgun and a weak minor Predator HP. That one seems to weight almost nothing. That setup, considering each class has 2-3 ranks in there passive they can take to up weight limit even further? Vanguard should be able to have ridiculous recharge rates. Add to that I want to spec for melee which has been mentioned, doing so can output nearly the same damage as a high dmg one shot sniper shot.

Yeah, I don't see it as a problem, hell I see it as a great shift in allowing us to play how we want. If you wanna carry around a bajllion weapons 24/7 by all means, go for it. Just don't **** when you can't use your powers that often. I mean ME1 Adept was only remotely good with a pistol. That was it. ME2 pistol and SMG.

They also seem to of rebalanced all the 'ammo' for guns. Avenger is 25/250 now, Predator is 15/120 instead of 12/60 for instance. So ehh, yeah, cry more I guess. Hopefully you can dry that leak come the demo/game.

-edit-
@Whereto: Yes, 5 slots for main weapons and you only have to bring 1 with you. So the 'Adept with just a pistol' is entirely possible. Also all squad members have 2 slots and you can equip them with 'anything' you want in them 2 slots (though probably not heavy weapons).

   



we will have to see how it works in the demo but it sucks that weight crap is tied to power re charge .

Not necessarily. What if only using an SMG as an Adept means you get an additional -30% recharge rate for powers, warp, followed by singularity almost on top of each other.

[Whereto]

No no people, I'm asking did they change it from before where soldiers were only allowed to bring 5 weapons, adepts and the like were capped at two I believe.

[Kwest253]

I could understand penalizing ammo powers maybe even tech powers but why penalize biotics with this system? How does this affect Warp or Shock Wave?

[Adhin]

May actually be more then 30%. Some of the footage shows it getting to more like 95% and such. Though I kinda feel like that part maybe a bit missleading as that would be well over 100% reduction with bonus... stuff.

Start of that video when he first hits the loadout page all he has is a Sniper of some kind and a weak pistol, has 70% cooldown bonus for it being at about 40% of his weight total. Think that sniper is insanely heavy, top end type thing though. And the pistol he picks up same ordeal - fires sticky grenades so its super heavy.

[Stardusk78]

Whereto wrote...

No no people, I'm asking did they change it from before where soldiers were only allowed to bring 5 weapons, adepts and the like were capped at two I believe.

Casters are not 'capped', just more limited in weight.

[CerberusSoldier]

powers are all important in a biotic class why should that be restricted based on the weapon you want to use . its crap that for a adept to even use its powers in 3 . it will need to be a pistol only class . the only class that gains from this is the Soldier class

[Whereto]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Whereto wrote...

No no people, I'm asking did they change it from before where soldiers were only allowed to bring 5 weapons, adepts and the like were capped at two I believe.

Casters are not 'capped', just more limited in weight.

Well that used to be the case, the weight system must of changed this.

[Stardusk78]

Adhin wrote...

May actually be more then 30%. Some of the footage shows it getting to more like 95% and such. Though I kinda feel like that part maybe a bit missleading as that would be well over 100% reduction with bonus... stuff.

Start of that video when he first hits the loadout page all he has is a Sniper of some kind and a weak pistol, has 70% cooldown bonus for it being at about 40% of his weight total. Think that sniper is insanely heavy, top end type thing though. And the pistol he picks up same ordeal - fires sticky grenades so its super heavy.

I have very happy about these changes. Just as a warrior in fantasy needs lots of weapons a mage (tech mage-engineer) should be able to cast lighting (overload) and fireball (incineration) often.

[CerberusSoldier]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Whereto wrote...

No no people, I'm asking did they change it from before where soldiers were only allowed to bring 5 weapons, adepts and the like were capped at two I believe.

Casters are not 'capped', just more limited in weight.

  


why should other classes be capped when the soldier class has them all . if you want real balance then let every class carry what they want. another reason why class systems in RPG games need to just die . it brings the most stupid restrictions I have heard of

[Adhin]

I'll try to be clearer. All classes have 5 slots, and each class has a specific weight limit. Soldier has the most, Adept/Engineer/Sentinel having the least, and Vanguard/Infiltrator sitting inbetween. The limit just determines when when you hit 0% recharge bonus, going over it increases it as a penalty, staying under it increases as a bonus to power recharge.

ALL powers, not just specific powers. ALl Cooldowns are effected by it. So, Why Adept and Why whateverelseyoufeelshoudlbeagod? Because its designed to balance power vs gun power. If you want to mostly shoot stuff and use powers sparingly? Awesome, carry a buttload of guns. Love to use your powers a lot? Fantastic carry light - just like you where 'forced' to in ME1-2.

The only major difference with this one is they aren't FORCING you. You can adjust it how you see fit. The lighter you go, the less firepower your taking with you the quicker you can use any given power. Which means you can use your powers more often to supplement your weakness in weapons. This is perfect for classes like an Adept who just wanted to use there powers all the time.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Why would different types of guns be better against armor and shields and others against health? I mean if Mass Effect WERE real, I'd expect whatever gun shoots the bigger and heavier bullets at higher velocities to be best at damaging anything end of line.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 04 février 2012 - 11:12 .

[SykoWolf]

Perhaps weapon powers should have different strengths on weapons (armour piercing-assault rifle 20% damage on armour whereas on SMG its around 30%)

[CerberusSoldier]

Adhin wrote...

I'll try to be clearer. All classes have 5 slots, and each class has a specific weight limit. Soldier has the most, Adept/Engineer/Sentinel having the least, and Vanguard/Infiltrator sitting inbetween. The limit just determines when when you hit 0% recharge bonus, going over it increases it as a penalty, staying under it increases as a bonus to power recharge.

ALL powers, not just specific powers. ALl Cooldowns are effected by it. So, Why Adept and Why whateverelseyoufeelshoudlbeagod? Because its designed to balance power vs gun power. If you want to mostly shoot stuff and use powers sparingly? Awesome, carry a buttload of guns. Love to use your powers a lot? Fantastic carry light - just like you where 'forced' to in ME1-2.

The only major difference with this one is they aren't FORCING you. You can adjust it how you see fit. The lighter you go, the less firepower your taking with you the quicker you can use any given power. Which means you can use your powers more often to supplement your weakness in weapons. This is perfect for classes like an Adept who just wanted to use there powers all the time.

   



with the weight system the biotic classes are basically limited to one freaking weapon if the player ever wants to use the powers of those classes . how can anyone adjust unless you use a adept with only a pistol or a Vanguard with only a shotgun . sure Bioware can spew all this oh every class has 5 slots oh but wait there is this weight limit so in reality not every class has 5 slots expect the soldier class . yeah you said it right forced to they have all but forced the 3 biotic classes into the same format they were in ME 1 and 2 . this is not real balance at all . so much for all classes can carry all weapons . class restrictions in rpgs need to die

[CerberusSoldier]

SykoWolf wrote...

Perhaps weapon powers should have different strengths on weapons (armour piercing-assault rifle 20% damage on armour whereas on SMG its around 30%)

   


Oh hell no the soldier class has no powers why restrict it .

[SykoWolf]

Well in case of firepower other classes are lacking, there should be some kind of boost, although not too much of one.

[Total Biscuit]

Kwest253 wrote...

I could understand penalizing ammo powers maybe even tech powers but why penalize biotics with this system? How does this affect Warp or Shock Wave?

Actually lore wise Biotics make the most sense to be effected by carry too much weight.

Using Biotics takes alot of effort, concentration and stamina. Lugging around massively heavy weapons is going to be draining the energy reserves you need to make a mass effect field, and fiddling around with a huge weapon you're not used to in the middle of a firefight isn't going to leave you in the ideal frame of mind either.

Really, it's the fact that it makes the recharge time on an Omnitool take longer that makes little sense, unless both that and the guns are drawing from the same power source for some reason.

[CerberusSoldier]

SykoWolf wrote...

Well in case of firepower other classes are lacking, there should be some kind of boost, although not too much of one.

  


Bioware could fix that by allowing the other classes to cary any amount of weapons they want . Plus why all this freaking class restriction crap any way Skyrim does not have this issue . Bioware needs to get with the modern day form of rpgs .

[CerberusSoldier]

Total Biscuit wrote...

Kwest253 wrote...

I could understand penalizing ammo powers maybe even tech powers but why penalize biotics with this system? How does this affect Warp or Shock Wave?

Actually lore wise Biotics make the most sense to be effected by carry too much weight.

Using Biotics takes alot of effort, concentration and stamina. Lugging around massively heavy weapons is going to be draining the energy reserves you need to make a mass effect field, and fiddling around with a huge weapon you're not used to in the middle of a firefight isn't going to leave you in the ideal frame of mind either.

Really, it's the fact that it makes the recharge time on an Omnitool take longer that makes little sense, unless both that and the guns are drawing from the same power source for some reason.

   



then Bioware should allow a biotic to carry no weapon at all . but oh thats right they live in the past when it comes to rpg game development Skyrim has a skill based system not some stupid out of date class restriction garbage .  class based rpg games need to die and I hope with the success of Skyrim it does die .

[Adhin]

I find it amusing how you just assume its only the biotic classes. What about Engineer? Does this weight system not also effect them as they're a caster class? Something more different going on there im not aware of?

The only thing I can really see this forcing me to do (which isn't a fair word do use as its still a choice on my end) is max out my class passive first to up my weight limit. For some reason, in the recent cam-video of a demonstration the soldier only had 1 point in his passive. He was missing out on a lot of bonus capacity because of that.

It seems to be setup to mimic how ME2 was by the end of it with the bonus training in how much any given class can carry if they want to. Plus Adept has a bunch of little bits in powers that completely remove cooldowns all together if you combo in certain ways, or heavily reduce for a duration.

Armor-type powers also effectively add to your encumbrance directly. So Barrier, for instance, is a perm-duration on/off toggle that adds to your encumbrance like your carrying an extra weapon. Keeping it on effectively means you can use your powers less. But your far more resilient as a whole so thats kind of a worth wild trade off. Also a little short-duration buff when you turn it off, think it boosts biotic power dmg/force. At which point you get the skills cooldown.

I get what your saying either way Cerberus but we just got 2 views on it. I like it cause it supports trying out different play styles. You don't seem to like it cause you... I dunno, seem to dislike the idea of choice like that? Would rather everyone is force limited or can just carry everything with out penalty?

I just can't agree with that. I hated the forced limitations of ME2, the awkward 'your carrying everything but can't use any of it but this' in ME1. This system just seems to make the most sense with out letting Adepts carry everything and still have no penalty. I mean what would you do to balance that out?

You have to have some kind of limitation for it, so what would you do instead? Make it effect... what movement speed? How powerful powers are but not there cooldowns?

[Stardusk78]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Adhin wrote...

I'll try to be clearer. All classes have 5 slots, and each class has a specific weight limit. Soldier has the most, Adept/Engineer/Sentinel having the least, and Vanguard/Infiltrator sitting inbetween. The limit just determines when when you hit 0% recharge bonus, going over it increases it as a penalty, staying under it increases as a bonus to power recharge.

ALL powers, not just specific powers. ALl Cooldowns are effected by it. So, Why Adept and Why whateverelseyoufeelshoudlbeagod? Because its designed to balance power vs gun power. If you want to mostly shoot stuff and use powers sparingly? Awesome, carry a buttload of guns. Love to use your powers a lot? Fantastic carry light - just like you where 'forced' to in ME1-2.

The only major difference with this one is they aren't FORCING you. You can adjust it how you see fit. The lighter you go, the less firepower your taking with you the quicker you can use any given power. Which means you can use your powers more often to supplement your weakness in weapons. This is perfect for classes like an Adept who just wanted to use there powers all the time.

   



with the weight system the biotic classes are basically limited to one freaking weapon if the player ever wants to use the powers of those classes . how can anyone adjust unless you use a adept with only a pistol or a Vanguard with only a shotgun . sure Bioware can spew all this oh every class has 5 slots oh but wait there is this weight limit so in reality not every class has 5 slots expect the soldier class . yeah you said it right forced to they have all but forced the 3 biotic classes into the same format they were in ME 1 and 2 . this is not real balance at all . so much for all classes can carry all weapons . class restrictions in rpgs need to die

No classes? what would you do?

[Drake-Shepard]

does this include the handgun or not, im assuming thats just a default thing that everyone has.

on another thread with the leveling up laid out it shows the vanguard and infiltrator able to choose to increase weapon capacity or squad and shepard weapon damage at level 4. (level 4 of that particular power or whatever you call it)

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 04 février 2012 - 11:31 .

[SykoWolf]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

SykoWolf wrote...

Well in case of firepower other classes are lacking, there should be some kind of boost, although not too much of one.

  


Bioware could fix that by allowing the other classes to cary any amount of weapons they want . Plus why all this freaking class restriction crap any way Skyrim does not have this issue . Bioware needs to get with the modern day form of rpgs .

Becasue, bioware doesn't want one class to pawn all others, why be a soldier when you can be an expert biotic AND a master of all weapons? It makes sense to restrict classes.

[CerberusSoldier]

Stardusk78 wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Adhin wrote...

I'll try to be clearer. All classes have 5 slots, and each class has a specific weight limit. Soldier has the most, Adept/Engineer/Sentinel having the least, and Vanguard/Infiltrator sitting inbetween. The limit just determines when when you hit 0% recharge bonus, going over it increases it as a penalty, staying under it increases as a bonus to power recharge.

ALL powers, not just specific powers. ALl Cooldowns are effected by it. So, Why Adept and Why whateverelseyoufeelshoudlbeagod? Because its designed to balance power vs gun power. If you want to mostly shoot stuff and use powers sparingly? Awesome, carry a buttload of guns. Love to use your powers a lot? Fantastic carry light - just like you where 'forced' to in ME1-2.

The only major difference with this one is they aren't FORCING you. You can adjust it how you see fit. The lighter you go, the less firepower your taking with you the quicker you can use any given power. Which means you can use your powers more often to supplement your weakness in weapons. This is perfect for classes like an Adept who just wanted to use there powers all the time.

   



with the weight system the biotic classes are basically limited to one freaking weapon if the player ever wants to use the powers of those classes . how can anyone adjust unless you use a adept with only a pistol or a Vanguard with only a shotgun . sure Bioware can spew all this oh every class has 5 slots oh but wait there is this weight limit so in reality not every class has 5 slots expect the soldier class . yeah you said it right forced to they have all but forced the 3 biotic classes into the same format they were in ME 1 and 2 . this is not real balance at all . so much for all classes can carry all weapons . class restrictions in rpgs need to die

No classes? what would you do?

  



have a skill based system like in Skyrim . let the player chose what skill or power he or she wanted to invest in . thats real player choice in a rpg.

[Adhin]

Ahh I'm not sure I want to know after that little thing. Sounds like he just hates class systems. Which I can understand. Though this isn't some wildly outdated system from arcane times. This is how are military works. You have specialists and in the ME universe, unless your an Asari your not just born with super great biotics. Not every human can be one, and it stands to reason a human WITH biotic powers with in the alliance would get special training outside of your basic soldier.

It would kinda be like if some humans just where born with functional wings for no apparent reason and we where all used to that. The military would give them special training to fight specifically with that in comparison to non-fliers.

I think ME does a fantastic job of doing a class system in a manner which actually makes sense when compared to a real military organization. Less contrived random restrictions like you get with some other RPG class systems. But they also didn't hammer anyone into forced specific roles like tanks and rogues. Yeah Sentinel is tank-like as of ME2, but that isn't an actual role to exploit.