258 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lack of moments for Liaramancers? Please.

ME2 vanilla was the worst!

Even worst for VS romancers. 

Don't give me that. Yeah we Liara lovers may be swimming in bliss now, but at one point in time, we were on the bottom of the totum pole (well at least second to the bottom ~ I'm looking at you VS romancers) 

And ME1 is the worst for anyone who romanced someone from ME2.
Besides, fans of Liara enjoyed "Redemption" before ME2 vanilla came out. 

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I may have Sympathy for the VS Romancers, but I don't feel nor share their pain, because I played ME2 First and I am a Mirimance/Mirimaniac.

[Alex Arterius]

MisterJB wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lack of moments for Liaramancers? Please.

ME2 vanilla was the worst!

Even worst for VS romancers. 

Don't give me that. Yeah we Liara lovers may be swimming in bliss now, but at one point in time, we were on the bottom of the totum pole (well at least second to the bottom ~ I'm looking at you VS romancers) 

And ME1 is the worst for anyone who romanced someone from ME2.
Besides, fans of Liara enjoyed "Redemption" before ME2 vanilla came out. 

The fact of the matter is fans of ME2 characters draw the short straw regardless of how you look at it

[DigitalMaster37]

MisterJB wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lack of moments for Liaramancers? Please.

ME2 vanilla was the worst!

Even worst for VS romancers. 

Don't give me that. Yeah we Liara lovers may be swimming in bliss now, but at one point in time, we were on the bottom of the totum pole (well at least second to the bottom ~ I'm looking at you VS romancers) 

And ME1 is the worst for anyone who romanced someone from ME2.
Besides, fans of Liara enjoyed "Redemption" before ME2 vanilla came out. 

This is the part where the overarching story takes over and fairness flies out the window. Liara whether you like it or not is pivotal to the entire plot of the trilogy. Without her, there is no getting past even ME1. She recognizes Ilos. Characters in games/movies have varying degrees of role importance, and you simply cannot just even out everyone's level of importance. Yes it may be easy from where I am sitting to say that, but true nonetheless. 

I cannot apologize for that, it is just what it is. Be glad we have the options we have in the first place. BioWare could have left the romance options at what they were in ME1. At some point you have to take what you're given and work with it. I don't know what else to say on that. 

[mereck7980]

I just hope that Miranda, Jacob, Thane, Samara, and Kasumi get more than cameos. From what I have seen of Mordin's involvement in ME3 cameos is what most of the ME2 cast will be reduced to. I am pretty partial to Miranda, but I also want a little more plot time for the other former squaddies too.

They don't have to be on the Normandy, but I would like to think that most of them have more than a few lines of dialog before they die. The lack of info from BW reinforces my concern about their roles in the game. As long as their stories are wrapped up I will be happy, but if all we get from them is a message at a terminal or a brief conversation in a mission hub I will feel a little disappointed.

[DigitalMaster37]

Alex Arterius wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lack of moments for Liaramancers? Please.

ME2 vanilla was the worst!

Even worst for VS romancers. 

Don't give me that. Yeah we Liara lovers may be swimming in bliss now, but at one point in time, we were on the bottom of the totum pole (well at least second to the bottom ~ I'm looking at you VS romancers) 

And ME1 is the worst for anyone who romanced someone from ME2.
Besides, fans of Liara enjoyed "Redemption" before ME2 vanilla came out. 

The fact of the matter is fans of ME2 characters draw the short straw regardless of how you look at it

this ^ (unfortunate for ME2 character romancers, but fact)

[Grey34]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Grey34 wrote...
i'm sorry  Garrus,Tali,Liara is more important to the story than the rest whether you like it or not.

MEFan, chillax and learn from the Panda. Of course, nepotism's gonna be rife cause of the wailing kids-I mean groupies, the devs who ****** to alien sex, and the fact that Liara happens to be the lead writer's waifu.  But then again, the Panda has given us an idea of what to do to Bioware's head office. So chillax, and go Panda.

  yeah......okay ,  you know what? you have nice day.... you chump   

Modifié par Grey34, 05 février 2012 - 05:00 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Alex Arterius wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lack of moments for Liaramancers? Please.

ME2 vanilla was the worst!

Even worst for VS romancers. 

Don't give me that. Yeah we Liara lovers may be swimming in bliss now, but at one point in time, we were on the bottom of the totum pole (well at least second to the bottom ~ I'm looking at you VS romancers) 

And ME1 is the worst for anyone who romanced someone from ME2.
Besides, fans of Liara enjoyed "Redemption" before ME2 vanilla came out. 

The fact of the matter is fans of ME2 characters draw the short straw regardless of how you look at it

this ^ (unfortunate for ME2 character romancers, but fact)

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Since this is the last game of trilogy, and EA's obsession with $$$, I have confidence Bioware will "fill in the blanks" for any characters from ME2 that dont get much showtime in ME3(like LotSB). Besides, with all those characters comes romance options and I can only imagine how mad ppl will be if their favourite romanced' squadmate gets neglected.

[DigitalMaster37]

Grey34, you are right. If you follow all three games and point to the importance of each character it kinda goes like this:

I preface this with the solid fact that every single character is very important to Shepards cause, but there are varying degrees:

1) Liara (prothean expert) - Recognizes Ilos/ finds and rescues Shepards body from the collectors/ Takes out Shadow Broker which leads the way to her finding (spoiler) and (spoiler) in ME3 very important and pivotal in the trilogy

2) Tali - Finds and possessed evidence that Saren was a traitor apparently super important

3) Miranda - Rescues Shepard from certain death through the Lazarus program (with help from her colleagues at Cerberus) Very important and pivotal in the trilogy

4) Wrex/Garrus - Helps Shepard prove Saren's Traitor status

To varying degrees the other characters are super important in that they were present for the Suicide mission and some other things.

I think you get the point...

[MisterJB]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
This is the part where the overarching story takes over and fairness flies out the window. Liara whether you like it or not is pivotal to the entire plot of the trilogy. Without her, there is no getting past even ME1. She recognizes Ilos. Characters in games/movies have varying degrees of role importance, and you simply cannot just even out everyone's level of importance. Yes it may be easy from where I am sitting to say that, but true nonetheless. 

I cannot apologize for that, it is just what it is. Be glad we have the options we have in the first place. BioWare could have left the romance options at what they were in ME1. At some point you have to take what you're given and work with it. I don't know what else to say on that. 

Of course. I don't censure fans of Liara for enjoying what they are given. I criticize only Bioware for making Liara so important to the over aching plot, through extremely contrived means most of the time.

She was essential in ME1. Then maybe Cerberus should be the ones recovering Shepard's body since he is going to work with them anyway. It would be a good way of introducing Miranda and Jacob who would become important characters in ME2 and it would not force Liara to be, canonically, on good terms with Shepard. The Commander can threaten to throw her into a volcano, after all.

She becomes the Shadow Broker in ME2. Forgetting for a second that that makes absolutely no sense, since she has been elevated to such an important position, this would be a good way of justifying her absence from the ME3 squad, thus vacating the position to someone else. Instead, she is a permanent squadmate from the second mission onwards.

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 février 2012 - 05:08 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

You know I think BioWare sees everyone as players who started and played ME1 since it's release in 2008. As if they think that everyone started out with ME1 (Scratch the PS3 Players) and romanced with someone in ME1. That said.....did they just make the ME2 LIs for just "Cheating" Bait? What about those who were Newcomers like I was? There are players who Believe that their LI in ME2 is Very Important to their story just as those who have an LI in ME1 and think of them the same way.

Keep that in mind, BioWare. For the ones who have an ME2 LI, that Character is not expendable like you "Devs" think they are. Those characters are very important to them, and to them, they are not cheat bait, nor are they just characters to be only considered expendable in the end, like Miri for Me, since she is my LI.


THIS is definitely something to which I worry about everyday.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 05 février 2012 - 05:11 .

[DigitalMaster37]

MisterJB wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
This is the part where the overarching story takes over and fairness flies out the window. Liara whether you like it or not is pivotal to the entire plot of the trilogy. Without her, there is no getting past even ME1. She recognizes Ilos. Characters in games/movies have varying degrees of role importance, and you simply cannot just even out everyone's level of importance. Yes it may be easy from where I am sitting to say that, but true nonetheless. 

I cannot apologize for that, it is just what it is. Be glad we have the options we have in the first place. BioWare could have left the romance options at what they were in ME1. At some point you have to take what you're given and work with it. I don't know what else to say on that. 

Of course. I don't censure fans of Liara for enjoying what they are given. I criticize only Bioware for making Liara so important to the over aching plot, through extremely contrived means most of the time.

She was essential in ME1. Then maybe Cerberus should be the ones recovering Shepard's body since he is going to work with them anyway. It would be a good way of introducing Miranda and Jacob who would become important characters in ME2 and it would not force Liara to be, canonically, on good terms with Shepard. The Commander can threaten to throw her into a volcano, after all.

She becomes the Shadow Broker in ME2. Forgetting for a second that that makes absolutely no sense, since she has been elevated to such an important position, this would be a good way of justifying her absence from the ME3 squad, thus vacating the position to someone else. Instead, she is a permanent squadmate from the second mission onwards.

See I think that is incorrect. Every bit of it. 

Think about it, it makes perfect sense. Liara is a prothean expert and she thrives on learning and finding out as much as she can about what she studies (prothean artifacts). This lends well to how important she is, since ME1. As for the Shadow Broker, she consumed herself with revenge as the Shadow Broker is who was going to give SHepards body to the collectors. THen they took Feron. She had every reason and motivation to destroy the SB. Cerberus DID get SHepards body through Liara. 

Liara just happens to be an important character and I think you simply don't like that. From a story standpoint it fits. If BioWare was looking at it from a romance POV (which they werent) then yes it would look contrived. Yet they had a lot of this written earlier on making adjustments as they go. They would not make changes based on fans romance bias on their overarching story... why would they? that would make for bad writing and what I call "shoehorning" just to satisfy fans based on romance. 

[shepard1038]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

You know I think BioWare sees everyone as players who started and played ME1 since it's release in 2008. As if they think that everyone started out with ME1 (Scratch the PS3 Players) and romanced with someone in ME1. That said.....did they just make the ME2 LIs for just "Cheating" Bait? What about those who were Newcomers like I was? There are players who Believe that their LI in ME2 is Very Important to their story just as those who have an LI in ME1 and think of them the same way.

Keep that in mind, BioWare. For the ones who have an ME2 LI, that Character is not expendable like you "Devs" think they are. Those characters are very important to them, and to them, they are not cheat bait, nor are they just characters to be only considered expendable in the end, like Miri for Me, since she is my LI.


THIS is definitely something to which I worry about everyday.

Im getting worry about Bioware only using the Me2 character's for the suicide mission and then casting they aside in Me3.

[DigitalMaster37]

jreezy wrote...

Tbh I wouldn't consider anyone outside of Miranda, Mordin, Liara, Wrex, Legion and Tali that important.

I say important because everyone story wise pulled their weight, even though we as players didn't use that many of them. Story wise I'd say everyone was and is important. For the pivotal points in the overarching story?... no not everyone was important and yes I'd say your list is spot on. 

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 05 février 2012 - 05:27 .

[goofyomnivore]

@jreezy VS is a Spectre, the only other human one, so I think that would elevate them as well. Other than that I agree with you.

Modifié par strive, 05 février 2012 - 05:26 .

[force192]

I just want to see Jack.

[MisterJB]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Think about it, it makes perfect sense. Liara is a prothean expert and she thrives on learning and finding out as much as she can about what she studies (prothean artifacts). This lends well to how important she is, since ME1.
As for the Shadow Broker, she consumed herself with revenge as the Shadow Broker is who was going to give SHepards body to the collectors. THen they took Feron. She had every reason and motivation to destroy the SB. Cerberus DID get SHepards body through Liara. 

If the plot of ME3 is centered heavily around Protheans then yes, it makes sense for her to be on the squad.

But don't place her as the SB at the same time. First of all, it makes no sense to go from shy archeologist to ruthless information broker. Quite frankly, I have no idea how the original Liara fans could be happy with this change, it's character assassination. I know that if Miranda suddenly became a shy Alliance operative in ME3, I would rage.
Second, if she is the SB, then she should not be risking her life figthing on the frontlines. Just send an agent to do that, like TIM does.

And she should not have been in Redemption at all. A non interactive comic is not the place for Shepard's squadmates. It established an amicable relationship between Liara and Shepard which might not be true in certain playthroughs.

If BioWare was looking at it from a romance POV (which they werent) then yes it would look contrived. Yet they had a lot of this written earlier on making adjustments as they go. They would not make changes based on fans romance bias on their overarching story... why would they? that would make for bad writing and what I call "shoehorning" just to satisfy fans based on romance. 

Ironically, all of Liara's story from ME1 to LotSB seems to be written with a Shepard/Liara romance in mind.
Otherwise, why keep the N7 armor on display on her apartment? Why include specifically Liara on Redemption?
 

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 février 2012 - 05:32 .

[DigitalMaster37]

MisterJB wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Think about it, it makes perfect sense. Liara is a prothean expert and she thrives on learning and finding out as much as she can about what she studies (prothean artifacts). This lends well to how important she is, since ME1.
As for the Shadow Broker, she consumed herself with revenge as the Shadow Broker is who was going to give SHepards body to the collectors. THen they took Feron. She had every reason and motivation to destroy the SB. Cerberus DID get SHepards body through Liara. 

If the plot of ME3 is centered heavily around Protheans then yes, it makes sense for her to be on the squad.

But don't place her as the SB at the same time. First of all, it makes no sense to go from shy archeologist to ruthless information broker. Quite frankly, I have no idea how the original Liara fans could be happy with this change, it's character assassination. I know that if Miranda suddenly became a shy Alliance operative in ME3, I would rage.
Second, if she is the SB, then she should not be risking her life figthing on the frontlines. Just send an agent to do that, like TIM does.

And she should not have been in Redemption at all. A non interactive comic is not the place for Shepard's squadmates. It established an amicable relationship between Liara and Shepard which might not be true in certain playthroughs.

She did not go to ruthless information broker. She still has a lot of her qualities, but after all she's been through she and anybody for that matter who get a sort of harder edge. It is perfect writing if you ask me. Just like in real life. Put a shy person's back against the wall and I'll show you the beginning of the greatest ass woopin you'd ever seen. It makes sense. She developed in a believable way imo. 

And to that last statement of yours: even the initial SB was nervous about the reapers. I don't know about you, but when the reapers come to destroy your entire galaxy and life as you know it, I'd think I'd take to a more remote form of Shadow Broking too. 

If BioWare was looking at it from a romance POV (which they werent) then yes it would look contrived. Yet they had a lot of this written earlier on making adjustments as they go. They would not make changes based on fans romance bias on their overarching story... why would they? that would make for bad writing and what I call "shoehorning" just to satisfy fans based on romance. 

Ironically, all of Liara's story from ME1 to LotSB seems to be written with a Shepard/Liara romance in mind.
Otherwise, why keep the N7 armor on display on her apartment? Why include specifically Liara on Redemption?
 

That is not romance specific. There is other types of friendships other than erotic between women and men, or in this case, Asari and man. She was truly attached to Shepard. If my commanding CO died, I'd think I'd want something to remember him/her by. maybe that is just me. It doesn't have to automatically mean I had some sort of feeling for her. 

[Grey34]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Grey34, you are right. If you follow all three games and point to the importance of each character it kinda goes like this:

I preface this with the solid fact that every single character is very important to Shepards cause, but there are varying degrees:

1) Liara (prothean expert) - Recognizes Ilos/ finds and rescues Shepards body from the collectors/ Takes out Shadow Broker which leads the way to her finding (spoiler) and (spoiler) in ME3 very important and pivotal in the trilogy

2) Tali - Finds and possessed evidence that Saren was a traitor apparently super important

3) Miranda - Rescues Shepard from certain death through the Lazarus program (with help from her colleagues at Cerberus) Very important and pivotal in the trilogy

4) Wrex/Garrus - Helps Shepard prove Saren's Traitor status

To varying degrees the other characters are super important in that they were present for the Suicide mission and some other things.

I think you get the point...

 

oh yeah of course  don't mean that  Miranda wasn't important or any charcter is not important  just was trying to point out  that  that argueing  about characters not getting equal share time  is mute because it's impossible for everyone to be happy  given the state of the story. but yeah story short i get your point   

[Mclouvins]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

You know I think BioWare sees everyone as players who started and played ME1 since it's release in 2008. As if they think that everyone started out with ME1 (Scratch the PS3 Players) and romanced with someone in ME1. That said.....did they just make the ME2 LIs for just "Cheating" Bait? What about those who were Newcomers like I was? There are players who Believe that their LI in ME2 is Very Important to their story just as those who have an LI in ME1 and think of them the same way.

Keep that in mind, BioWare. For the ones who have an ME2 LI, that Character is not expendable like you "Devs" think they are. Those characters are very important to them, and to them, they are not cheat bait, nor are they just characters to be only considered expendable in the end, like Miri for Me, since she is my LI.


THIS is definitely something to which I worry about everyday.

A. This is small stuff and not worth sweating. There is no sense in worrying everyday about something that is about 5% of a videogame.

B. All of the ME2 romance arcs will have some form of closure, it may not be exactly what you want but they can't please everyone (afterall the Thane thread is no doubt filled with people who want Thane and femshep to live happily ever after despite the fact that the second thing he says to you is "I'm dying").