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[wolfsite]

<Possible Spoilers for Lair of the Shadow Broker>





Still you have to admit the "Clip" show of her doing interviews on the Shadow Broker base is kinda entertaining..... especially with the Volus.

[Badpie]

I will admit that there are certain things in games that can be grimly satisfying for a player because you get to step outside yourself and experience things you're not normally used to. As I said my femshep punched her, but I did that knowing full well that it's something I should not have enjoyed and my femshep did it because she's a huge jerk.

It's not "paragon" to know that it's not okay for a 200lb muscular marine trained in combat to assault a 120lb unarmed woman who didn't even physically attack him first. And it bothers me that BioWare just put that in there without any responsible thought to how upsetting that is.

You can argue all you want about equal treatment or whine about the double standard of how it's totally okay for femshep to hit her (which its still not), but it doesn't change the idea that BioWare did nothing to punish or dissuade people from the whole violence against women thing. They instead turned it into a big joke. And I think that's kind of irresponsible on their part.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Saints have no flaws then?

An exageration to the absurd on your part, but I'll assume that you aren't familiar with the phrase.

Saints are never claimed to be perfect, but as a rhetorical device they are renowned for being nearly without flaws, and certainly without major flaws.

It is only a matter of definition. At best you can say you don't agree with my definition of a hero.

So would most of history. And literature. And culture.

But someone who punches an unarmed women for no good reason is no and cannot be a hero for me. Even if he/she saves the world.

A rather absurd definition. Would you also like to insist the world is flat if you can't see all of it at once?

[Dean_the_Young]

DJBare wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Which has nothing to do with not being a hero.

Do you think that heroic individuals don't have flaws? Serious, ugly, and counterproductive flaws?

Seriously, heroes aren't saints. Never have been.

I never even hinted at such, humans have flaws, but that's a whole other thing about overcoming those flaws.

Heroes exist simultaneously with their flaws, or lack of them. Heroism isn't a trait involved with the absence or removal of flaws: that's the concept of virtue.

The conceit of Hero=Virtue is a rather mondern one with little basis. Many of the most broadly agreed upon heroes, literary and historic, had flaws that far surpassed punching an aggravating woman.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

The world is saved many times each day by different people, they are not all heroes. Some just do their job, others do it because for survival reasons. A villain can save the world just like a hero can. The difference is not what they do, but how they do it. And why they do it.

That's a hearty misues of the established terms, but hey. Personal definitions.

[Badpie]

You don't have to be a good person to be a "hero." You can still be an absolute a-hole and do great things.

[Ryzaki]

Eh it's a joke. As for no reprcussions...Shep's a Spectre when he/she punches her the first time and a terrorist the second time. Who exactly is going to bother doing anything? I found the reprimand from Hackett to be sufficient in ME1 and I don't see Miranda or TIM giving a damn in ME2.

[Morgz-23]

I didn't hit her in ME1 but I didn't hesitate for a second to clock her in ME2. I'll do the same in ME3 if given the chance.

[BillsVengenace]

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

[Badpie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh it's a joke. As for no reprcussions...Shep's a Spectre when he/she punches her the first time and a terrorist the second time. Who exactly is going to bother doing anything? I found the reprimand from Hackett to be sufficient in ME1 and I don't see Miranda or TIM giving a damn in ME2.

So it makes it okay just because he won't get in trouble for it?  My point is that it is a joke and that bothers me that they would make it so easy for players to simply make light of/ enjoy punching a woman in the face.  At the very least Shepard should face some sort of disciplinary action for this.  A lawsuit where you lose a lot of credits or a criminal record assault and battery.  Something that makes it not so easy to just be like "annoyed now, me punch, haha."

Modifié par Badpie, 05 février 2012 - 03:46 .

[K_Tabris]

Although it's just a video game, they have taken the punching the reporter joke too far.

[incinerator950]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The world is saved many times each day by different people, they are not all heroes. Some just do their job, others do it because for survival reasons. A villain can save the world just like a hero can. The difference is not what they do, but how they do it. And why they do it.

That's a hearty misues of the established terms, but hey. Personal definitions.

That's actually a very broad interpretation of the definition.  More realistic.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I found bringing her down with words far more fun and satisfying.
 
I would love to have her bring up Shepard's love interest and if it's an alien love interest (regardless of it being Liara, Tali, Garrus, or Thane) and have Shepard reply by telling the galaxy that al-Jilani is having an affair with an asari (you could also imply that she is also the other parent of an asari daughter) and thus not only does Shepard make her look like the ultimate idiot that she is, but also s/he also makes her the ultimate hypocrite.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 05 février 2012 - 03:56 .

[Dean_the_Young]

BillsVengenace wrote...

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

It's the twenty-first century now. Can we come to terms that man-on-man violence isn't intrensically less bad because a woman isn't involved?

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Saints have no flaws then?

An exageration to the absurd on your part, but I'll assume that you aren't familiar with the phrase.

Saints are never claimed to be perfect, but as a rhetorical device they are renowned for being nearly without flaws, and certainly without major flaws.

It is only a matter of definition. At best you can say you don't agree with my definition of a hero.

So would most of history. And literature. And culture.

But someone who punches an unarmed women for no good reason is no and cannot be a hero for me. Even if he/she saves the world.

A rather absurd definition. Would you also like to insist the world is flat if you can't see all of it at once?

The definition of a hero has always changed in literature. And now in modern times it is not the same as it was 3000 years ago. It is a huge difference still if your wife cheated you or a woman did you wrong in another way or a reporter asking questions you don't want to answer. If you would punch a woman just like a man then that's your way of doing things. I wouldn't anyway, and I think alot of people would agree with me. There are things you don't do. There is nothing hard to understand about it either.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

It's the twenty-first century now. Can we come to terms that man-on-man violence isn't intrensically less bad because a woman isn't involved?

No.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

The definition of a hero has always changed in literature. And now in modern times it is not the same as it was 3000 years ago. It is a huge difference still if your wife cheated you or a woman did you wrong in another way or a reporter asking questions you don't want to answer. If you would punch a woman just like a man then that's your way of doing things. I wouldn't anyway, and I think alot of people would agree with me. There are things you don't do. There is nothing hard to understand about it either.

The form of hero favored has changed through history, but what a hero is NOT has not. Heroism has never entailed not ever doing indisputably bad things. Heroes having flaws has been pretty standard.

There are certainly people who enjoy morally flawless heroes, but the quality of being without sin is accessory to being heroic, not a quality of it. It's the difference between liking red cars, and insisting it's not a car if it's not red. Quality A is independent of Quality B.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 février 2012 - 04:12 .

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

It's the twenty-first century now. Can we come to terms that man-on-man violence isn't intrensically less bad because a woman isn't involved?

No.

For shame. And so sexism survives.

[Seboist]

I don't see anything wrong with Sheploo punching her. It's gender equality in action baby.

[Badpie]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

It's the twenty-first century now. Can we come to terms that man-on-man violence isn't intrensically less bad because a woman isn't involved?

I don't really feel like any of the violence man/man, woman/woman, woman/man, man/woman is acceptable.  A woman punching a man or a woman punching a woman is just as bad as a man punching a woman when it comes down to it, yes.  But it's always going to be much worse when in a situation where someone is physically bigger and stronger than the victim.  It's always going to seem worse for a man to hit a woman.  That's just the way it is.  It's been that way for centuries.  I don't think it's progressive to say we should get passed that and consequently if it's okay to hit anyone then it must be okay to hit women.

And all of you using the "sexism" and "gender equality" argument to justify hitting her - you keep using those words.  I do not think you know what those words mean....

Modifié par Badpie, 05 février 2012 - 04:11 .

[Adanu]

Women want equal rights, but not the standards to go along with it. Welcome to modern feminism,, where men have been screwed over for twenty years and women want equality, yet fight being considered by the draft.

Love this society. Especially the stupid traditional men who keep it going.

BillsVengenace wrote...

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

You are what is holding society back.

Modifié par Adanu, 05 février 2012 - 04:13 .

[JamieCOTC]

Who is a hero and who is a villain is decided mostly by history and perspective. But ME is a video game.  History and perspective don't really enter into the equation of narcissistic entertainment . Unless of course you want them to into the equation.

My canon has never punched the reporter, but some of my other Sheps have. It's far more satisfying to "bullrush" her than to give Khalisah al-Jilani what she wants. In ME1 however, it is gratifying in a to "let it slip" that Saren was involved in Eden Prime. My canon always does that.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 05 février 2012 - 04:17 .

[Ryzaki]

Badpie wrote...
So it makes it okay just because he won't get in trouble for it?  My point is that it is a joke and that bothers me that they would make it so easy for players to simply make light of/ enjoy punching a woman in the face.  At the very least Shepard should face some sort of disciplinary action for this.  A lawsuit where you lose a lot of credits or a criminal record assault and battery.  Something that makes it not so easy to just be like "annoyed now, me punch, haha."

It's a game.

Shep can also shove a gun in Conrad's face for little reason and shoot him in the foot. Should he/she be punished for that as well?

Plus Shep's not even punished for far more questionable actions (like acting like a cop and gunning people down). So no it's not that big a deal to me.

If it really bothers you that much don't punch her. There's a reason it's an option.

A lawsuit would look ridculous because Shep can beat up far more influential and powerful people (hi there Kelham) and face no reprucussions. Only way for it to stick would be if Shep assaulted anyone he/she had to go through the lawsuit thing.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 février 2012 - 04:15 .

[Badpie]

The argument that it should be perfectly okay to hit women simply because it's an "equal" society now is the dumbest argument ever. It's not okay to hit anyone, but to say "women want equal rights so by that account they shouldn't be upset when a man punches them in the face like a man" is downright ludicrous.  The correct answer is that you're a gigantic a-hole if you hit anyone who is unarmed, unable to fight back and poses no physical threat to you.

Modifié par Badpie, 05 février 2012 - 04:16 .