422 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

 I prefer the Paragon results in this case.

[Seboist]

What would have been offensive is if Shepard smacked her instead of punching her. That would have signified that he views women as beneath him and not worthy as the same treatment as a man like Manuel.

[Dean_the_Young]

Badpie wrote...

I don't really feel like any of the violence man/man, woman/woman, woman/man, man/woman is acceptable.  A woman punching a man or a woman punching a woman is just as bad as a man punching a woman when it comes down to it, yes.  But it's always going to be much worse when in a situation where someone is physically bigger and stronger than the victim.  It's always going to seem worse for a man to hit a woman.  That's just the way it is.  It's been that way for centuries.  I don't think it's progressive to say we should get passed that and consequently if it's okay to hit anyone then it must be okay to hit women.

And now we're to size discrimination as well. And so regressive thought patterns survive: simply because it has occured in the past, it must be right.

No one is claiming it's progressive to defend hitting a woman without cause. The progressive claim is that hitting a woman without cause is not bad because it's a woman.

And all of you using the "sexism" and "gender equality" argument to justify hitting her - you keep using those words.  I do not think you know what those words mean....

Er, no. You don't understand what I'm saying at all if you think I'm justifying hitting her.

I'm saying that hitting her doesn't change whether Shepard is a hero or not. I have not once in this thread advocated or defended hitting her.

[Ryzaki]

Badpie wrote...

The argument that it should be perfectly okay to hit women simply because it's an "equal" society now is the dumbest argument ever. It's not okay to hit anyone, but to say "women want equal rights so by that account they shouldn't be upset when a man punches them in the face like a man" is downright ludicrous.

I agree with this. It's silly.

Then again I don't pretend my Shep was in the right when he punched her. But it made me LMAO though.

[Ryzaki]

Seboist wrote...

What would have been offensive is if Shepard smacked her instead of punching her. That would have signified that he views women as beneath him and not worthy as the same treatment as a man like Manuel.

Nothing wrong with a nice backhand.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 février 2012 - 04:18 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Badpie wrote...

The argument that it should be perfectly okay to hit women simply because it's an "equal" society now is the dumbest argument ever.

Fortunately, no one is making that argument.
[

It's not okay to hit anyone, but to say "women want equal rights so by that account they shouldn't be upset when a man punches them in the face like a man" is downright ludicrous.

Hello again, pile of straw!

 The correct answer is that you're a gigantic a-hole if you hit anyone who is unarmed, unable to fight back and poses no physical threat to you.

Thank you for agreeing with us.

[JeffZero]

My voice must be heard!

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Never have... Never will.

It's downright despicable to hit a woman if she isn't threatening you or something of that nature. Especially since she is an unarmed civilian and part of the media. It's her job to be an ass. lmao

So, just b/c she's being an ass... she deserves to be punched? IMO the renegade persuasion choice is the best option.

My Shepard, regardless of being renegade, still has enough class to not hit a civilian.

[Badpie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Badpie wrote...

The argument that it should be perfectly okay to hit women simply because it's an "equal" society now is the dumbest argument ever. It's not okay to hit anyone, but to say "women want equal rights so by that account they shouldn't be upset when a man punches them in the face like a man" is downright ludicrous.

I agree with this. It's silly.

Then again I don't pretend my Shep was in the right when he punched her. But it made me LMAO though.

I get that.  And I think that's where my real issue is.  The issue is not that you're allowed to punch her but the game does nothing to make you think that's a bad thing.  If your Shepard hits her, you should be able to recognize that it's because your Shepard is a jerk.  You can even laugh about it as long as the thought behind it is "man that reporter really got what was coming to her.  I was so right in punching her in the face.  That make my Shepard awesome."  It's that attitude I find disturbing.  And I feel like the game should have made it more clear that that is the "wrong" option is all.

For the record, I alwo have a huge problem with punching Manuel, but at least Kaidan says "that was a little extreme" implying that you're kind of a mega douche and you as a player should recognize that in your Shepard.  Roleplay however you wish as long as you understand what you're roleplaying I guess is my point.

Modifié par Badpie, 05 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

JeffZero wrote...

 I prefer the Paragon results in this case.

I did the ME2 Pargon persuade for saving the Council, and I winced. Positively winced at the bad writing involved in that situation.

Any real veteran reporter would have run circles around Shepard with that sort of argument: first by not leaving such a blatant blunder to leave the opening, and then by stressing just how little the Alliance has gotten from the Council in terms of its membership.

[DiebytheSword]

I will continue to give her a good blue option tongue thrashing, it was the most satisfying for me.

[Dave of Canada]

Absolutely adored intimidating her in ME1/ME2, calling her out on disrespecting the dead and then leaving the interview (ME2) or mentioning Machiavelli (ME1) was better than the paragon alternatives (imo).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 05 février 2012 - 04:24 .

[Ryzaki]

Badpie wrote...

I get that.  And I think that's where my real issue is.  The issue is not that you're allowed to punch her but the game does nothing to make you think that's a bad thing.  If you're Shepard hits her, you should be able to recognize that it's because your Shepard is a jerk.  You can even laugh about it as long as the thought behind it is "man that reporter really got what was coming to her.  I was so right in punching her in the face.  That make me Shepard awesome."  It's that attitude I find disturbing.  And I feel like the game should have made it more clear that that is the "wrong" option is all.

For the record, I alwo have a huge problem with punching Manuel, but at least Kaidan says "that was a little extreme" implying that you're kind of a mega douche.

Disagree. The "wrong" option thing at least. There should be no "wrong" choices. Only choices.

As for disturbing it's a game. *shrugs* I can't take it seriously.

[BillsVengenace]

Adanu wrote...

Women want equal rights, but not the standards to go along with it. Welcome to modern feminism,, where men have been screwed over for twenty years and women want equality, yet fight being considered by the draft.

Love this society. Especially the stupid traditional men who keep it going.

BillsVengenace wrote...

No woman beater is a hero. It's pretty despicable than BioWare included this option and made light of beating women.

You are what is holding society back.

And you are cretinous scum if you thinking hitting a woman is acceptable and/or humourous. 

[Seboist]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

What would have been offensive is if Shepard smacked her instead of punching her. That would have signified that he views women as beneath him and not worthy as the same treatment as a man like Manuel.

Nothing wrong with a nice backhand.

A five across the eyes is a good alternative.

[KnightofPhoenix]

No I wouldn't punch al-Jilani. Not only is it stupid and vulgar, but she's the only Mass Effect character (well there is Zaeed Massani) with an Arabic sounding name and I dislike what they are doing with her.

[JeffZero]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

 I prefer the Paragon results in this case.

I did the ME2 Pargon persuade for saving the Council, and I winced. Positively winced at the bad writing involved in that situation.

Any real veteran reporter would have run circles around Shepard with that sort of argument: first by not leaving such a blatant blunder to leave the opening, and then by stressing just how little the Alliance has gotten from the Council in terms of its membership.

Fair enough, yeah.

[Ryzaki]

Seboist wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

What would have been offensive is if Shepard smacked her instead of punching her. That would have signified that he views women as beneath him and not worthy as the same treatment as a man like Manuel.

Nothing wrong with a nice backhand.

A five across the eyes is a good alternative.

I'm dense. What is that? It's going to be ridculously obvious when you explain but for the moment I am confused.

[Dean_the_Young]

Badpie wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Badpie wrote...

The argument that it should be perfectly okay to hit women simply because it's an "equal" society now is the dumbest argument ever. It's not okay to hit anyone, but to say "women want equal rights so by that account they shouldn't be upset when a man punches them in the face like a man" is downright ludicrous.

I agree with this. It's silly.

Then again I don't pretend my Shep was in the right when he punched her. But it made me LMAO though.

I get that.  And I think that's where my real issue is.  The issue is not that you're allowed to punch her but the game does nothing to make you think that's a bad thing.  If you're Shepard hits her, you should be able to recognize that it's because your Shepard is a jerk.  You can even laugh about it as long as the thought behind it is "man that reporter really got what was coming to her.  I was so right in punching her in the face.  That make me Shepard awesome."  It's that attitude I find disturbing.  And I feel like the game should have made it more clear that that is the "wrong" option is all.

Besides the slippery slope of changing an RPG into a moral advocacy tale, the problem is that Mass Effect never has any real short-term consequences for these sort of things. It's always carry-over to later... and then forgotten later. That's not a problem of just the 'bad' actions, but the 'good' ones as well.

Of course, Shepard is in a position of relative impunity in ME1 and ME2, which is rather the point. As a Spectre, it's always clear that the only moral standing you're held to is the one you hold yourself to. In the Terminus, there's no law or public opinion to care about. Al-Jilani has always been a small-fry, with little grounds to being significant or being able to retaliate.

Who knows, though. Maybe Al-Jilani won't work with you in ME3 for a helpful sidequest if you punched her. Her refusing to help you would be about as much as she could do.

[Seboist]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No I wouldn't punch al-Jilani. Not only is it stupid and vulgar, but she's the only Mass Effect character (well there is Zaeed Massani) with an Arabic sounding name and I dislike what they are doing with her.

That one guy that gets smoked within 10 seconds of landing on Feros had an arabic name IIRC.

[Dean_the_Young]

BillsVengenace wrote...

And you are cretinous scum if you thinking hitting a woman is acceptable and/or humourous. 

Did he say that? No.

In fact, I think it's rather clear his objection is your specifying 'woman', as if hitting a man would be more acceptable and/or humourous.

What's wrong with 'you are a cretinous scum if you think hitting anyone is acceptable and/or humourous'?

[JeffZero]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No I wouldn't punch al-Jilani. Not only is it stupid and vulgar, but she's the only Mass Effect character (well there is Zaeed Massani) with an Arabic sounding name and I dislike what they are doing with her.

David al Talaqini died warning Shepard of the geth on Feros. Granted, his death was almost as hilarious as Jenkins'.

[Seboist]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

What would have been offensive is if Shepard smacked her instead of punching her. That would have signified that he views women as beneath him and not worthy as the same treatment as a man like Manuel.

Nothing wrong with a nice backhand.

A five across the eyes is a good alternative.

I'm dense. What is that? It's going to be ridculously obvious when you explain but for the moment I am confused.

 A classier name for a backhand.

[Badpie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I get that.  And I think that's where my real issue is.  The issue is not that you're allowed to punch her but the game does nothing to make you think that's a bad thing.  If you're Shepard hits her, you should be able to recognize that it's because your Shepard is a jerk.  You can even laugh about it as long as the thought behind it is "man that reporter really got what was coming to her.  I was so right in punching her in the face.  That make me Shepard awesome."  It's that attitude I find disturbing.  And I feel like the game should have made it more clear that that is the "wrong" option is all.

For the record, I alwo have a huge problem with punching Manuel, but at least Kaidan says "that was a little extreme" implying that you're kind of a mega douche.

Disagree. The "wrong" option thing at least. There should be no "wrong" choices. Only choices.

As for disturbing it's a game. *shrugs* I can't take it seriously.

My quotes around the word "wrong" should have implied that it's not really the correct word, but I think you get my meaning.  And there are absolutely no "wrong" choices in roleplay, but certainly ones that a player should be able to recognize as not the most diplomatic and generally jerky.  That's what I meant.  

I'm aware it's a game, Ryz.

And I'm so glad people think it's totally okay in this thread to continue joking about backhanding women.

[Ryzaki]

Seboist wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No I wouldn't punch al-Jilani. Not only is it stupid and vulgar, but she's the only Mass Effect character (well there is Zaeed Massani) with an Arabic sounding name and I dislike what they are doing with her.

That one guy that gets smoked within 10 seconds of landing on Feros had an arabic name IIRC.

It's a damn shame. I just played Feros yesterday and I can't even remember his name.