176 réponses à ce sujet

[incinerator950]

Badpie wrote...

There are ones that I find not necessarily out of place but just to the extreme. To me renegade shep is a d*ck but he's not evil. There are actions that just seem so over the top villainous to me. And Shepard is not a villain.

(in no particular order)
1. Executing anyone really: Shiala, the electrocuted Batarian, the merc shoved out the window, Talitha, Rana Thanoptis, Wrex.
2. Physically assualting defenseless individuals: Manuel, Al-Jihlani, Conrad Verner.
3. Leaving the people to burn alive in the factory on Zaeed's mission.
4. Giving Veetor to Cerberus.
5. Killing the colonists on Feros if he doesn't even TRY with the gas grenades.

I guess that sort of covers it for me for "things I find wholly unbelievable" for a protagonist to do.

On a lesser note I find giving the fish to the Krogan and taking all his long saved money downright mean. That and sending the Biotic God Volus to his death for amusement.  (Ha!  My renegade Shep: Don't even blink when killing rachni queen, feel punched in the gut with guilt when I lie to the Krogan about the fish).

• I did the electrocution because I want that Gunship disabled, at the least partially damaged.  I mostly agree with the others.  I liked Wrex, he was my squads tank.
• Some people need a heavy hand.  Conrad's pretending to be a merc, a slap across the face, or a bullet in the shoe, will help. 
• That is Zaeed's mission.  Killing Vido, in my opinion, can reduce a lot of hostility in the Blue Suns.  Its also Zaeed's mission, if he wants him to die, botch his mission, and let thirty civilians die.  So be it. I take my companions loyalty and friendship over others.
• I always target the colonists.  They shoot first, I shoot back.  Wasting my time with grenades doesn't help.  Besides, saving Jeong saves the colony anyway.
• The Biotic God was annoying. 

Modifié par incinerator950, 05 février 2012 - 06:29 .

[Badpie]

I guess I've always viewed my renegade Shep as a "good" person, just not a "nice" person if that makes sense. haha So the downright cruel options, particularly when they have no bearing on something massive just seem evil to me.

[Femlob]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Are people actually pro-shooting an innocent civilian? How odd.

I'd kill people for fun if I could get away with it.

I'm glad you're saving our universe. If we're lucky, there'll be a few stragglers left alive to celebrate your victory.

[incinerator950]

PurebredCorn wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Ohhh oh I forgot about leaving David Archer with Cerberus hooked up to all those machines. Holy geez I can't believe I forgot that. That was awful. Not even my most renegade Shepard was able to do that.

I did it.

EVILDOER!! (:happy:)

**** happens.  The potential to help with the Reapers, Geth, or any Synthetics is too good to pass up.  Plus I'm Cerberus, if I could yell at the Illusive Man, or tell him to keep an eye on the subject, and go through his word with the best Medical care, I'll turn the operation into a crater.

Can only do so much with the limited dialogue in ME.  If I could do more, I would.

[andy6915]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
5. Not liking the AI on your ship.

I disagree. In the first game, EVERY SINGLE AI WITHOUT EXCEPTION tries to kill you. Every. Single. One. The one stealing credits on the Presidium, all the Geth you run into, Sovereign, the AI the Alliance called a VI to cover their asses on the moon, all of them want you dead. After that kind of treatment at the hands of AI, it's completely understandable to be distrustful. Miranda even backs you up when you react to EDI badly bringing up some of those previous AI encounters, and EDI then even states that your hostility is actually understandable considering.

That's why I always make my paragon Shepards react badly to EDI. It's logical to be very weary of AI's. Of course, with how helpful and nice she is, and how she saves your butt a number of times and after Legion's enlightening conversations, by the end of the game when the crew is taken and Miranda yells at Joker for unshackling her, I make my Shepard express complete trust in EDI. I pretty much put in role-played character development, going from absolute distrust and dislike of AI's at the start of ME2 to trusting and liking the AI's of your crew as much as any you do the organic members by the end of ME2, because Shepard sees that, like us, AI's can have good guys.

Modifié par andy69156915, 05 février 2012 - 06:34 .

[Agamo45]

The only one that I can say makes no sense is choosing Morinth over Samara. That's just plain stupid.

[Hunter of Legends]

andy69156915 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
5. Not liking the AI on your ship.

I disagree. In the first game, EVERY SINGLE AI WITHOUT EXCEPTION tries to kill you. Every. Single. One. The one stealing credits on the Presidium, all the Geth you run into, Sovereign, the AI the Alliance called a VI to cover their asses on the moon, all of them want you dead. After that kind of treatment at the hands of AI, it's completely understandable to be distrustful. Miranda even backs you up when you react to EDI badly wih some of the AI you've dealt with, and EDI then even states that your hostility is actually understandable considering.

That's why I always make my paragon Shepards react badly to EDI. It's logical to be very weary of AI's. Of course, with how helpful and nice she is, and how she saves your butt a number of times and after Legion's enlightening conversations, by the end of the game when the crew is taken and Miranda yells at Joker for unshackling her, I make my Shepard express complete trust in EDI. I pretty much put in role-played character development, going from absolute distrust and dislike of AI's at the start of ME2 to trusting and liking the AI's of your crew as much as any you do the organic members by the end of ME2, because Shepard sees that, like us, AI's can have good guys.

No, I'm saying I don't get WHY it's a regenade choice. AI's have been know to be a crapshoot so not trusting edi right away made sense for most shepards (especially my tech savvay Dan Shep who got beat up by AI on the moon).

[GamerrangerX]

-give collector base to ceberus
-kicking blue suns merc out of the window to his death"thane mission"
-lets the workers to die in the refinery on Zorya"Zaeed loyal mission?

Modifié par GamerrangerX, 05 février 2012 - 06:44 .

[andy6915]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
No, I'm saying I don't get WHY it's a regenade choice. AI's have been know to be a crapshoot so not trusting edi right away made sense for most shepards (especially my tech savvay Dan Shep who got beat up by AI on the moon).

Oh, I gotcha. I think it's renegade because typically in ME, polite=paragon, rude=renegade. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule (being rude to TIM is paragon). The EDI thing just follows the rule instead of being one of the exceptions.

But yeah, I think it should be a neutral dialog option, with no para or rene points for it.

[Badpie]

The Zaeed mission always ends the same way for me. I always save the people, paragon or renegade. To me it's just so stupid to let them die. Let innocent lives be lost for the sake of some personal vendetta? I don't need the guy to be loyal to me. I just need him to do the hell what I say dammit. Not gonna cry over him not liking me, particularly catering to his vengeful desire causes so many meaningless deaths. Zaeed still does his job even if he's not "loyal."  It always feels dirty to me.  Like I have to "suck up" to Zaeed by letting him do whatever he wants.  Screw that.  haha

Modifié par Badpie, 05 février 2012 - 06:44 .

[incinerator950]

GamerrangerX wrote...

-give collector base to ceberus
-kicking blue suns merc out of the window to his death"thane mission"
-lets the workers to die in the refinery on Zorya"Zaeed lotal mission?

I won't turn the topic into a moral debate about the base.  Especially because of the dilema of Metagaming and ME3's plot.
Yes, its also because you gave the Merc a chance to cooperate.  he'd order his squad to come running to attack you if the game allowed it (I've always had the moralty points to convince him to give you intel.) 
It is unmoral.  However, Zaeed's had a grudge for over a decade.  He was betrayed, nearly executed, and can now finally even the score.  What he did was to clear the opening and allow you an easy entrance. 

I'm a moral hypocrite, unless I have people I care about there, its less on me.  They're thirty anonymous civilians, if they die, its on me for allowing it.  However, killing Vido solves a lot of problems, not just Zaeeds.  Vido also coordinated most of the cut throat operations and endorsed his Mercenary organization to piracy.  I think that qualifies of removing a threat.

Modifié par incinerator950, 05 février 2012 - 06:43 .

[Hunter of Legends]

incinerator950 wrote...

GamerrangerX wrote...

-give collector base to ceberus
-kicking blue suns merc out of the window to his death"thane mission"
-lets the workers to die in the refinery on Zorya"Zaeed lotal mission?

I won't turn the topic into a moral debate about the base.  Especially because of the dilema of Metagaming and ME3's plot.
Yes, its also because you gave the Merc a chance to cooperate.  he'd order his squad to come running to attack you if the game allowed it (I've always had the moralty points to convince him to give you intel.) 

I think you can even look at the Collector Base as not being a moral choice.

It was built by the reapers and surely would allow indoctrination. It also would give valuable insight and intel on the enemy. It's less a moral decision than a tactical one.

[incinerator950]

Badpie wrote...

The Zaeed mission always ends the same way for me. I always save the people, paragon or renegade. To me it's just so stupid to let them die. Let innocent lives be lost for the sake of some personal vendetta? I don't need the guy to be loyal to me. I just need him to do the hell what I say dammit. Not gonna cry over him not liking me, particularly catering to his vengeful desire causes so many meaningless deaths. Zaeed still does his job even if he's not "loyal."

Yes, so does everyone.  However Zaeed's mission shows that not everyone will bow before Shepard without doing something more than major.  Its the reason why I love the concepts of Zaeed's mission, even if I have never done the Paragon side.  It actually puts more into it.  The same can be said for Sidonis and Harkin.

[The_Real_Lee]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

The only one that I can say makes no sense is choosing Morinth over Samara. That's just plain stupid.

Not really. Trying to mate with her is just plain stupid.

Yeah, when I first played as a renegade Shep I saved Samara, and in the final convorsation with Samara she flat out tells you that you are her friend, and that once the mission is over she will kill you because it is a part of the code of the Justicar.

It's closer to being Amoral if you choose Morinth, not stupid.

[incinerator950]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

GamerrangerX wrote...

-give collector base to ceberus
-kicking blue suns merc out of the window to his death"thane mission"
-lets the workers to die in the refinery on Zorya"Zaeed lotal mission?

I won't turn the topic into a moral debate about the base.  Especially because of the dilema of Metagaming and ME3's plot.
Yes, its also because you gave the Merc a chance to cooperate.  he'd order his squad to come running to attack you if the game allowed it (I've always had the moralty points to convince him to give you intel.) 

I think you can even look at the Collector Base as not being a moral choice.

It was built by the reapers and surely would allow indoctrination. It also would give valuable insight and intel on the enemy. It's less a moral decision than a tactical one.

I edited the post, go look at it too.  However, I agree on the Tactical decision.  I gave the base to Cerberus not for the Cerberus loyalty.  I did it because of trying to build assets, gathering technology and intel.  Even if I were to scrub the base and vent the Reaper Tech after TIM's..experiments.  The Collector Tech still surpasses Alliance warship technology.  Any edge we can get will help.

[King Minos]

mineralica wrote...

In no particular order:

1. Forcing sedative on Talitha EDIT: or killing her. Never killed her, forgot about existense of such option
2. Sending crew on SM back without escort
3. Selling Legion to Cerberus
4. Punching reporter
5. Killing colonists on Feros

It was needed, she posed a threat to herself and to others. You have no idea how she would react if you gave her a pill, with her fragile mental state, she could of viewed that as a threat. Should of just fired a tranquilizer from afar.

[Badpie]

incinerator950 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

The Zaeed mission always ends the same way for me. I always save the people, paragon or renegade. To me it's just so stupid to let them die. Let innocent lives be lost for the sake of some personal vendetta? I don't need the guy to be loyal to me. I just need him to do the hell what I say dammit. Not gonna cry over him not liking me, particularly catering to his vengeful desire causes so many meaningless deaths. Zaeed still does his job even if he's not "loyal."

Yes, so does everyone.  However Zaeed's mission shows that not everyone will bow before Shepard without doing something more than major.  Its the reason why I love the concepts of Zaeed's mission, even if I have never done the Paragon side.  It actually puts more into it.  The same can be said for Sidonis and Harkin.

And that's kind of why I like those missions and why I hate them.  I like that you can make the decision that Garrus is being a total whiny toolbag in wanting to kill Sidonis and you can say that.  And I like that you can save the people in Zaeed's mission and say to him that you're the boss and he can quit whining about not getting his way.  I guess the idea of loyalty missions in general, even though they were fun seem kind of weird to me.  I don't need you to like me.  What I need for you to do is shut up, don't bother me with your crap, follow my orders and do your job so we all come out of this alive.  Not  "hey I saved your sister so do you like me now can we be friends that's good that's so important."  It's not really.

[GamerrangerX]

Badpie wrote...

The Zaeed mission always ends the same way for me. I always save the people, paragon or renegade. To me it's just so stupid to let them die. Let innocent lives be lost for the sake of some personal vendetta? I don't need the guy to be loyal to me. I just need him to do the hell what I say dammit. Not gonna cry over him not liking me, particularly catering to his vengeful desire causes so many meaningless deaths. Zaeed still does his job even if he's not "loyal."  It always feels dirty to me.  Like I have to "suck up" to Zaeed by letting him do whatever he wants.  Screw that.  haha

me is the opposite i always let them die,because is not my problem is not my mission its Zaeed mission,i'm just here to help.

Modifié par GamerrangerX, 05 février 2012 - 06:52 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Really the only 1 or 2 I can think of where there isn't at least some rationalization for a renegade benefit from the choice is...

Punching the reporter
Choosing Morinth

The rest... could be argued that the resources you get further your cause (selling legion) or ensure that you can continue your mission (executing shiala or the the colonists on feros)

[Hunter of Legends]

incinerator950 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

GamerrangerX wrote...

-give collector base to ceberus
-kicking blue suns merc out of the window to his death"thane mission"
-lets the workers to die in the refinery on Zorya"Zaeed lotal mission?

I won't turn the topic into a moral debate about the base.  Especially because of the dilema of Metagaming and ME3's plot.
Yes, its also because you gave the Merc a chance to cooperate.  he'd order his squad to come running to attack you if the game allowed it (I've always had the moralty points to convince him to give you intel.) 

I think you can even look at the Collector Base as not being a moral choice.

It was built by the reapers and surely would allow indoctrination. It also would give valuable insight and intel on the enemy. It's less a moral decision than a tactical one.

I edited the post, go look at it too.  However, I agree on the Tactical decision.  I gave the base to Cerberus not for the Cerberus loyalty.  I did it because of trying to build assets, gathering technology and intel.  Even if I were to scrub the base and vent the Reaper Tech after TIM's..experiments.  The Collector Tech still surpasses Alliance warship technology.  Any edge we can get will help.

I'm not gonna lie, I always destroy the base because the threat of indontrination is too great.

If we only actually learned more about it on virmire than simple "Oh it rots your brain".

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Badpie wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

The Zaeed mission always ends the same way for me. I always save the people, paragon or renegade. To me it's just so stupid to let them die. Let innocent lives be lost for the sake of some personal vendetta? I don't need the guy to be loyal to me. I just need him to do the hell what I say dammit. Not gonna cry over him not liking me, particularly catering to his vengeful desire causes so many meaningless deaths. Zaeed still does his job even if he's not "loyal."

Yes, so does everyone.  However Zaeed's mission shows that not everyone will bow before Shepard without doing something more than major.  Its the reason why I love the concepts of Zaeed's mission, even if I have never done the Paragon side.  It actually puts more into it.  The same can be said for Sidonis and Harkin.

And that's kind of why I like those missions and why I hate them.  I like that you can make the decision that Garrus is being a total whiny toolbag in wanting to kill Sidonis and you can say that.  And I like that you can save the people in Zaeed's mission and say to him that you're the boss and he can quit whining about not getting his way.  I guess the idea of loyalty missions in general, even though they were fun seem kind of weird to me.  I don't need you to like me.  What I need for you to do is shut up, don't bother me with your crap, follow my orders and do your job so we all come out of this alive.  Not  "hey I saved your sister so do you like me now can we be friends that's good that's so important."  It's not really.

Not really sure where I stand on this... but think about this:

Say you don't help Zaeed take out Vido after purposfully traveling there to do so... who's to say that now he won't have a vendetta against you? You're on the SM and you take a bullet to the brain from behind... game over.