425 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Yeah, it's why you shouldn't give me your debit card information and social security number.

Oh sure, I'm honest, if I didn't just delete the information I'd never use it.

Can you be sure though?

I cannot stop laughing now, you are comparing this to genocide?, LMAO!

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Not really there are Reaper indoctrination devices left all over the place in the galaxy, you can run into a couple in ME1 and ME2. Direct Sovereign involvement is not required.

The only devices we've seen so far didn't cause people to start wars: they drove them nuts until they turned themselves into husks.

That's exactly what happened to the rachni - they were driven nuts.

[incinerator950]

DJBare wrote...

As already been pointed out, Saren was NOT the one doing the indoctrinating!

Unless you did Virmire before, Shepard has no idea what indoctrination is.  Not to mention that the only info on the Rachni Queens being indoctrinated is the vague message.  For all we know, the Rachni could have been intentionally hostile.

However, I think metagaming gave the destinct impression, so I won't beat the dead horse with a stick any more.

[Zkyire]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The four times I've played through ME1 (okay, five--I did one character twice), I've let her go. Implications aside, I'm too much of a touchy-feely baby to drown her in acid.

And I got sooooo close in my last playthrough, too, but I was like BAAAW CAN'T DO IT THIS IS SUCH A CRUEL AND NASTY WAY TO PUT HER DOWN AND SHE'S SUCH A COOL LADY!!

That's been my reasoning too.

Part of me feels letting her go is the right thing to do.

Part of me feels that if she is let go then what's to stop the Reapers from messing with them again?

But either way I let her go every time because the method of killing her is pretty sick.

[Random Geth]

Despite the history of the Rachni, I couldn't bring myself to kill her.  She spoke to me calmly and earnestly, and even sent a messenger to me later (in ME2).  She had never harmed me or mine, advocated killing the other rachni present because they were beyond help, and made no threats.  I can easily see how this might bite me in the ass in ME3, but I don't have it in me to put down a creature (and by extension, a species) like a mad dog when it is sentient, sincere (so far), and a potential ally.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

That's exactly what happened to the rachni - they were driven nuts.

No, they weren't crazy. Crazy people can't managed a successful military campaign. They can't build star ships and run a society.

They weren't crazy.

Crazy people can do all those things.  Especially a hive minded crazy species able to coordinate it's craziness.  Of course if there was a Reaper actively giving them subtle direction, that's different.

[DJBare]

incinerator950 wrote...

Unless you did Virmire before, Shepard has no idea what indoctrination is.  Not to mention that the only info on the Rachni Queens being indoctrinated is the vague message.  For all we know, the Rachni could have been intentionally hostile.

However, I think metagaming gave the destinct impression, so I won't beat the dead horse with a stick any more.

Huh, that's why the council say "consider your options"; Virmire was practically handed to you on a silver platter to investigate, now we all don;t think alike and I get that, but the counsil giving that information seemed like a priority to me for investigation, the big hint beng they only received static on the emergency channel.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Fine. This is an indoctrination unlike any we've seen so far from a Reaper device.

However obviously this is what happened. Fine. You win.

Not so, Kenson and her team were crazed but still capable of planning and (Save for supporting the Reapers) rational thought after being indoctrinated.  What happened to the Rachni is no different.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 08 février 2012 - 12:36 .

[Xeranx]

incinerator950 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

As already been pointed out, Saren was NOT the one doing the indoctrinating!

Unless you did Virmire before, Shepard has no idea what indoctrination is.  Not to mention that the only info on the Rachni Queens being indoctrinated is the vague message.  For all we know, the Rachni could have been intentionally hostile.

However, I think metagaming gave the destinct impression, so I won't beat the dead horse with a stick any more.

I think you actually find get an idea about indoctrination when you confront Benezia and that can be done before you go to Virmire.  She [Benezia] tells you as much about locking a small piece of her or her mind away waiting to take Saren on when the time is right.  You find out what it's called and who causes it on Virmire.  

I don't know if people think it's a coincidence that Benezia mentions it as well as Shiala, and the Rachni Queen.  At least one has to be telling the truth or they're all lying.

[Dave of Canada]

Benezia and Shiala mention how Saren as being the one they felt compelled to obey.
Rachni Queen only mentions sour yellow note and was listening to you and Benezia.

[xJohnsen]

I killed her on my first playthrough of ME1 just because of the "Shut up and die" option, I laughed while she drowned in acid.

[Xeranx]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Benezia and Shiala mention how Saren as being the one they felt compelled to obey.
Rachni Queen only mentions sour yellow note and was listening to you and Benezia.

Thanks for the clarification.  Still have one more Shepard to finish in ME and run through ME2 before ME3.  Dn't know if that happens.

I did think about the Queen listening to Benezia, but I figure at least one is telling the truth because Benezia is on Noveria.  It's very likely she feels Shiala never made it out and Shiala (on Feros) doesn't know where Benezia is or at least we're not able to ask her.  I think if we go to Noveria first you can mention Benezia on Feros.  I'm not too sure.

[incinerator950]

Xeranx wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

As already been pointed out, Saren was NOT the one doing the indoctrinating!

Unless you did Virmire before, Shepard has no idea what indoctrination is.  Not to mention that the only info on the Rachni Queens being indoctrinated is the vague message.  For all we know, the Rachni could have been intentionally hostile.

However, I think metagaming gave the destinct impression, so I won't beat the dead horse with a stick any more.

I think you actually find get an idea about indoctrination when you confront Benezia and that can be done before you go to Virmire.  She [Benezia] tells you as much about locking a small piece of her or her mind away waiting to take Saren on when the time is right.  You find out what it's called and who causes it on Virmire.  

I don't know if people think it's a coincidence that Benezia mentions it as well as Shiala, and the Rachni Queen.  At least one has to be telling the truth or they're all lying.

Oh I don't disagree.  However, you don't learn about Rachni Indoctrination until after Horizon on ME 2.  

I spared the Rachni, I'm just making a statement that the clear path is more then subjective morals.

[bazzag]

I kept her alive for the simple reason that here was a unique creature, not born at the time of the Rachni wars, who understood the errors her kin made and whom wanted a fresh start. Doesn't everyone deserve a second chance? A chance to repent for their sins?

[atheelogos]

"Rachni queen did you let her go and why?" I let her go. She was innocent at the time and killing someone because of what they might do is wrong.

[Xeranx]

@incinerator950
I understand.

[Ice Cold J]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

5/6 Ice Cold J Shepards let her go.

Either I want to preserve life or have strong allies... only my xenophobic Shepard drowned her with acid.

Wrex told me to do it.

Yah... he gets RIP**** if you let her go.

Too bad, cause Wrex is one of the best squaddies to have on Noveria for his abilities and his incredibly memorable and humorous lines throughout the level.

[wizardryforever]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

If Sovereign indoctrinated the rachni then who come he didn't know the location of the Mu relay?

Plot-hole!

Not really there are Reaper indoctrination devices left all over the place in the galaxy, you can run into a couple in ME1 and ME2. Direct Sovereign involvement is not required.

Reapers know the thoughts and memories of their indoctrinated slaves (whether or not it was the Reaper doing the indoctrinating doesn't matter), they can even suggest things to them without actually forcing them to do anything. Explained in great detail in Retribution.

Well technically speaking, the subject(s) must have Reaper implants in order for the Reapers to read their mind.  Like Saren and Grayson.  However, the suggestive effect of indoctrination works regardless of implants.  All indoctrinated can receive, but only those with implants can send.

As for the Mu Relay "plot-hole," it's simple.  Sovereign didn't know the information would one day be important.  After all, Ilos and the Conduit were not known to him until Saren found and used the beacon, so he had no reason to "ask" the rachni where the Mu relay was.  As far as he was concerned, it was where it had been when the Protheans were wiped out.  I bet it was only after traveling there and seeing that it wasn't there anymore did Sovereign realize that he needed to find it.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 08 février 2012 - 02:00 .

[wizardryforever]

Ice Cold J wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

5/6 Ice Cold J Shepards let her go.

Either I want to preserve life or have strong allies... only my xenophobic Shepard drowned her with acid.

Wrex told me to do it.

Yah... he gets RIP**** if you let her go.

Too bad, cause Wrex is one of the best squaddies to have on Noveria for his abilities and his incredibly memorable and humorous lines throughout the level.

I actually have a renegade playthrough where Liara convinced my Shepard to spare the queen.  Liara implores you to spare the queen, while Wrex practically demands that you kill it.  I usually take Liara for that mission, simply because of the interaction with Benezia.  Biotics in general are very useful on Noveria, since the Rachni are completely immune to tech attacks except Neural Shock.

[wizardryforever]

Saphra Deden wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

As for the Mu Relay "plot-hole," it's simple.  Sovereign didn't know the information would one day be important.

So is Sovereign stupid? If you are conducting a war for the Citadel one of the first things you'd want to know is where all of the relays you control go. Sovereign should know all of them automatically but he should be especially curious about the Mu precisely because it was moved.

Plot-hole.  I say. The writers just didn't think this through when they suggested the rachni were indoctrinated.

Though personally, I never really bought that story myself. It only is kind of believable if you've done the other missions. 

When I first played Noveria it was my first mission and so when the queen referred to the "sour yellow note" I figured she was talking about the engines on the krogan ships as they annihilated her people.

Sovereign was complacent.  Complacency is its own special kind of stupidity.  He was confident that he already knew where the relay was, and it didn't matter to him really.  His goal is not to plan the invasion, just to get the rest of the Reapers here.  Once they arrive and execute their surprise attack, they use the Citadel records to see where everyone is.  Vigil explained that this is how they wiped out the Protheans, but again, they didn't know about Ilos, so it was spared.  I imagine that he simply didn't care overmuch about finding the Mu relay until the invasion began in earnest, until the Citadel relay failed to open, and he learned the gist of what happened from Saren.