425 réponses à ce sujet

[Wtiger96]

I didn't becuase I'm not into the whole genocide thing'

[Sora Shepherd]

Sorry guys, the Reapers have to die no mater what the cost. If I have to cure the genophage, I will do it. Free the Rachni as potential allies, yes. Brainwash the Geth to serve us in the fight, absolutely. Hell, I will make a clone army of Shepards if I need to.

The galaxy can sort **** out when there is no longer an armada of planet glazing ships moving up and about. Until the Reapers are extinct, we have no future to consider possible wars and consquences.

[Collider]

If you'd said that initially, I wouldn't have said anything, but this seems to say that you think it was the wrong choice:

I did say it was just my opinion Implied subjecitivity.

Thank ye, Twilight's cute as well.

[ZehnWaters]

Collider wrote...

If you'd said that initially, I wouldn't have said anything, but this seems to say that you think it was the wrong choice:

Thank ye, Twilight's cute as well.

I'm just surprised at the number of people who have My Little Pony avatars and stuff.

[BlueMagitek]

My Renegade Shep let her go, Paragon Shep let her go her, neutral Shep destroyed her go.

Varying reasons:

Renegade: It will force the buildup of weaponry against the Rachni; this in turn will allow for a public reason for the armament against the Reapers.

Paragon: It's a life!

Neutral: ****ing bugs.

[wizardryforever]

Collider wrote...

And the idea of killing someone because they could get indoctrinated is asinine. Why don't we kill Joker? He could get indoctrinated! Why not Garrus, or Tali, or Liara? Why not assassinate the president of the Alliance? What about that random bystander? Indoctrination is no special danger for the Rachni instead of anyone else.

That isn't the same thing.
It is a special danger for the rachni because of the way their society is. Queens control everything. You indoctrinate the queen, you essentially indoctrinate all of the drones under her command - which could be an entire army. The rachni also seem to be generally servile "people" too. Perfect for indoctrination.

Garrus, Tali, Joker are all individuals who are generally under Shepard's watch, and do not dominate and command large groups of people. Nor they do they have (or their races have) histories of being hugely indoctrinated.
It's not nearly the same as the rachni.

Considering how aware the queen is about indoctrination, you'd think she could be counted on more than anyone other than Shepard to avoid anything that could potentially indoctrinate her (like mysterious bases in the center of the galaxy dedicated to Reaper construction ).  Even if she was a little unsure about what caused the "tone from space" in her racial memory, she witnessed Benezia's downfall, even shared her mind for a brief time. 

Also note that there are other races out there with a history of autocracy and authoritarianism.  The turians follow orders without question.  It seems to me that their leaders would make perfect targets for indoctrination, but no one other than trolls or deranged individuals ever claim that the turians could be indoctrinated and thus should be wiped out.  Just to be safe.  Cuz you know, safety is what genocide is all about.

[AtreiyaN7]

I let her go because I believed her when she said her race was peaceful. The only reason the Rachni turned murderous is that they were clearly Indoctrination by the Reapers. Do you blame humans turned husks for their actions? That, by the way, is a rhetorical question.

[Peer of the Empire]

no

A threat to galactic peace

[floppypig]

ZehnWaters wrote...

floppypig wrote...

Far too risky to let her live. Apart from damaging any alliance you may have with the krogan, you also have to think in the long term.

Let's say they help you and get rid of the Reaper threat. Then what? They'll go live on some planet - minding their own buisness. 

Eventually, some small bands of mercenraries will probably go attack them for **** and giggles - possibly angering them against the other races, especially considering the help they provided. Or the council (seeing as they're totally retarded) will decided they're too much of an unstable risk and attack them. Then all it takes is for the queen to get pissed off and there you go, Rachni War 2.0, except the genophage is still active and the Krogan aren't such a big help now.

It's not just about whether the Rachni can be trusted. It's also about whether the rest of the galaxy will agree with your decision and leave the Rachni alone or incoporate them into their society. My guess is that they won't. Maybe things will be fine for 1000 years, but at some point someone will make a move and it'll end in disaster. At the end of the day, if there's one thing the people in power (like the Council) convey, it's that they can't be trusted.

You can call me a murderer for commiting genocide, but from the information I was given, it was the safest course of action to preserve galactic stability. 

Then that's someone else' fault, not mine.  It's my job to decide what *I* do, not what the Queen does, or what someone in the future might possibly do.  I will not be responsible  for something the Queen *might* do.  The Krogan is different, they effectively declared war on the galaxy because they couldn't control their population.  The Genophage was an act of war, and was far more humane than any other option (bombing them into oblivion).  I'm not saying eradicating them the first time around was necessarily wrong, they declared war on the galaxy (indoctrinated or not).

So you made the decision to save the queen without taking an educated guess on how the rest of the world will react? I know it's not your fault. But this isn't about something as petty as whose fault it is, it's about galatic stability. If people label me as a genocidal maniac then fine, i'll take that label. I'll rest easy knowing I didn't risk the galaxy. 

Yes, it is something the queen or council *might* do. But, in my opinion, that is a big *might*. A *might* I wasn't willing to risk. A *might* that I was fairly sure would happen.

Again though, that is completely my subjective opinion. If I was wrong then it's good they relieved me of duty. 

Modifié par floppypig, 06 février 2012 - 06:01 .

[Collider]

Cuz you know, safety is what genocide is all about.

Yup

[floppypig]

Sora Shepherd wrote...

Sorry guys, the Reapers have to die no mater what the cost. If I have to cure the genophage, I will do it. Free the Rachni as potential allies, yes. Brainwash the Geth to serve us in the fight, absolutely. Hell, I will make a clone army of Shepards if I need to.

The galaxy can sort **** out when there is no longer an armada of planet glazing ships moving up and about. Until the Reapers are extinct, we have no future to consider possible wars and consquences.

This is a really good argument for saving the queen. It's really the only thing that makes me doubt my desicion in killin her. 

[ZehnWaters]

floppypig wrote...

ZehnWaters wrote...
Then that's someone else' fault, not mine.  It's my job to decide what *I* do, not what the Queen does, or what someone in the future might possibly do.  I will not be responsible  for something the Queen *might* do.  The Krogan is different, they effectively declared war on the galaxy because they couldn't control their population.  The Genophage was an act of war, and was far more humane than any other option (bombing them into oblivion).  I'm not saying eradicating them the first time around was necessarily wrong, they declared war on the galaxy (indoctrinated or not).

So you made the decision to save the queen without taking an educated guess on how the rest of the world will react? I know it's not your fault. But this isn't about something as petty as whose fault it is, it's about galatic stability. If people label me as a genocidal maniac then fine, i'll take that label. I'll rest easy knowing I didn't risk the galaxy. 

Yes, it is something the queen or council *might* do. But, in my opinion, that is a big *might*. A *might* I wasn't willing to risk. A *might* that I was fairly sure would happen.

Again though, that is completely my subjective opinion. If I was wrong then it's good they relieved me of duty. 

I did make an educated guess.  Based on all information she was innocent.  You're the one who came up with some wacky scenario to excuse your genocide.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

JUST TO PUT AN END TO THIS ARGUMENT ...

In ME2 she has a messenger/servant/slave talk to you and essentially say the Rachni stand with you before the end or whatever...therefore regardless of what you did, freeing her was the correct choice, even if not the most logical/sound at the time. If she didn't intend to honor her statements she would have remained in exile/hidden and not have servants address Shepard.

[floppypig]

ZehnWaters wrote...

floppypig wrote...

ZehnWaters wrote...
Then that's someone else' fault, not mine.  It's my job to decide what *I* do, not what the Queen does, or what someone in the future might possibly do.  I will not be responsible  for something the Queen *might* do.  The Krogan is different, they effectively declared war on the galaxy because they couldn't control their population.  The Genophage was an act of war, and was far more humane than any other option (bombing them into oblivion).  I'm not saying eradicating them the first time around was necessarily wrong, they declared war on the galaxy (indoctrinated or not).

So you made the decision to save the queen without taking an educated guess on how the rest of the world will react? I know it's not your fault. But this isn't about something as petty as whose fault it is, it's about galatic stability. If people label me as a genocidal maniac then fine, i'll take that label. I'll rest easy knowing I didn't risk the galaxy. 

Yes, it is something the queen or council *might* do. But, in my opinion, that is a big *might*. A *might* I wasn't willing to risk. A *might* that I was fairly sure would happen.

Again though, that is completely my subjective opinion. If I was wrong then it's good they relieved me of duty. 

I did make an educated guess.  Based on all information she was innocent.  You're the one who came up with some wacky scenario to excuse your genocide.

Haha I wouldn't call it wacky, but each to their own. 

Fair enough, you came to the conclusion she was innocent, I'm not so sure. 

But what I'm arguing is that even if you're right, that rest of the galaxy might not agree with you and a ****-storm will ensue.

Yes, I realise this isn't your fault. But I don't think people are going to care who is at fault when thousands of giant bugs descend on them. 

[Nobezy]

I didn't because I feel like it isn't their fault they were indoctrinated during the rachni wars. Under Sheps command, or..with Shep around to keep them in line I feel it won't happen again so easy.

[Collider]

I don't remember the rachni queen pledging or even suggesting that she'll help Shepard in reward for letting her go.

[Nobezy]

Collider wrote...

I don't remember the rachni queen pledging or even suggesting that she'll help Shepard in reward for letting her go.

In Mass Effect 2 she tells an Asari to tell Shepard that she will sing with Shepard when the time comes.
In the first game she just says she'll tell her children of him and such..

Modifié par Nobezy, 06 février 2012 - 06:22 .

[floppypig]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

JUST TO PUT AN END TO THIS ARGUMENT ...

In ME2 she has a messenger/servant/slave talk to you and essentially say the Rachni stand with you before the end or whatever...therefore regardless of what you did, freeing her was the correct choice, even if not the most logical/sound at the time. If she didn't intend to honor her statements she would have remained in exile/hidden and not have servants address Shepard.

That doesn't put an end to anything. What if the queen gets indoctrinated in ME3? 

There's also the post-reaper time to think about (assuming there is a post-reaper time). 

[Collider]

Nobezy wrote...

Collider wrote...
I don't remember the rachni queen pledging or even suggesting that she'll help Shepard in reward for letting her go.

In Mass Effect 2 she tells an Asari to tell Shepard that she will sing with Shepard when the time comes.

Right, but that's after the fact.
She doesn't say anything of the sort before you make the actual decision.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Collider wrote...

I don't remember the rachni queen pledging or even suggesting that she'll help Shepard in reward for letting her go.

Reading is hard "ME2"

Also

I hate having to do everything, first couple seconds of conversation she speaks DIRECTLY.

GG saving her was right choice, I like the Rachni Queen as an aside point though, unique character.

[Collider]

Like I said, that's after Shepard makes the decision.

[Zeebaas]

The Rachni were indoctrinated during the war, so I let the queen go. Maybe they will be indoctrinated again, but without their queen the rachni would be hostile anyway. Something about never hearing their song or something.

[LilyasAvalon]

I didn't see a reason to kill her. If she goes rogue again, than that gives the Krogan a reason to be the galaxies saviors again.

[Nobezy]

Collider wrote...

Like I said, that's after Shepard makes the decision.

Yeah she doesn't actually say she's going to help Shepard, however he doesn't exactly say "I'm going to stop a galactic threat and I need every species' help."

However, you get the feeling from how she speaks the other Rachni that her intentions are true. She and her kind won't be in the way when the time comes.

Modifié par Nobezy, 06 février 2012 - 06:27 .