453 réponses à ce sujet

[essarr71]

Unbannable wrote...

There would be a lot more allusions to her femininity, as you would expect for a woman in her position.  Instead of people referring to her as "Shepard," all the time, they would call her by her first name whatever it would be.  You would have been able to see her family..

So you're suggesting RPGs are better by having a fixed gender and a fixed name?

Doesn't the Witcher series have their own forum?

[Unbannable]

yoshibb wrote...

Femshep's entire fanbase is limited to this forum? What? That's ridiculous. 630,000 people who played ME2 as femshep, all frequent this site?

Thats silly.  So just because you played FemShep automatically makes you a fan?  I played Sheploo, but I'm not a Sheploo fan, or even a fan of Commander Shepard.

The most vociferous, slobbering FemShep fans seem to reside here on BSN.

[Arkitekt]

Unbannable wrote...

The same could be said for making a character open ended instead of defined.  Both have their pros and cons.

So why not leave at that and have both options available in the market of games? Why the necessity of flattening the games into one limited stereotype?

I'm not ignoring human investment.  You erroneously believe that the ability to select your character's gender is crucial to investment, and yet the most famous and popular video game characters always tend to be fixed.

And you erroneously believe otherwise. We can go on like this all night, since you just spread metaphysical truths to the air hoping that people will agree with you because you have a chicken as an avatar. Or smth.

Why is that?  And this is compounded by the fact that the PC's gender in Bioware's games seldom have very little impact on the main plot to begin with.

This has nothing to do with it. It's the character creator. Choosing your face has zero impact. Why is there anyway? And why people love it? You simply refuse to acknowledge the basic fact that people love these choices.

Your sex/gender has a tremendous impact on the path(s) you can take through life in the real world, but in Bioware's games, it's merely a superficial, almost purely aesthetic choice.

... and that's fine since it's a sci fi world taken place in a future where women should already be treated just as well as men. And still you do get some small details of difference.

[Ananka]

Well, I can only speak for myself and say that if it wasn't for the option to play as a female protagonist, I'd never bought any of the ME-games, and probably not any of the other Bioware games either.
I almost exclusively play femshep. I have started a few sheploo playthroughs, but I don't think I've ever completed any of them (or even taken them very far). There are games where I don't mind playing a male protagonist, but those are not role playing games. And I'm certain I'm not the only one who thinks this.

Modifié par Annaka, 06 février 2012 - 07:07 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Nu-Nu wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I don't care if people "expect" gender choices or not in a specific archetype of a game that I personally couldn't care less. The discussion was if it was "worth" writing and recording a femshep for Mass Effect.

By allowing players to play whatever gender they wanted it affected the overall writing because the writers had to take this into account every single time they wrote dialogue.

That is absolutely true and all those resources could have been used to give MaleShep up to twice as much character development and up to +half as much interaction with other characters.

But you know what? That's fine. I've stated my opinion on that above.

They had less options (no elves or dwarfs) and background story for DA2 main character than they did for DA1, did they spend that extra time and resources on what was what left, was DA2 main character more in depth? No, they didn't spend the extra resource and time on DA2, it just meant they could just sell it quicker.

Please don't compare Gaider and his retarded team to the ME writing team. Alright? One has failed in every single respect where as the other has constantly delivered.

 
So you're suggesting RPGs are better by having a fixed gender and a fixed name? 

Doesn't the Witcher series have their own forum? 

Oh so the Witcher games are the only good RPGs with a fixed protagonist? Deus EX and Alpha Protocol say hello.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 février 2012 - 07:06 .

[Arkitekt]

Unbannable wrote...

The most vociferous, slobbering FemShep fans seem to reside here on BSN.

You are really ridiculous, Unbannable. You are here speaking with us and conclude that only here exist femshep fans. It's like someone believing the only town in existence is their own and that the rest of the planet's existence is hearsay mythology.

[AlanC9]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
By allowing players to play whatever gender they wanted it affected the overall writing because the writers had to take this into account every single time they wrote dialogue.

That is absolutely true and all those resources could have been used to give MaleShep up to twice as much character development and up to +half as much interaction with other characters wtih the same amount of resources.

I don't see how adding a gender constraint to Shepard magically gives you that many more resources to write new dialogues. 

It cuts the VA budget a bit, sure.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2012 - 07:06 .

[Blacklash93]

Most opinions coming from both sides probably come from different answers to these questions (from the perspective of the typical male gamer):

Do you want everything to appeal to you in a deep and meaningful way? Or would you be okay with sacrificing some of that so others can better enjoy and identify with the experience?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 06 février 2012 - 07:07 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't see how adding a gender constraint to Shepard magically gives you that many more resources to write new dialogues.

It cuts the VA budget a bit, sure.

Cutting down female Shepard would allow the writers to focus on other things, that's how. It's not just a superficial thing, because they need to consider the gender thing every time they write dialogue. How hard is to recognize that that takes time?

[WizenSlinky0]

Adding a gender does not equal twice the work, I'm afraid. If it did we'd probably all agree it'd be better if they left it out and just made ridiculously awesome games, and make the main character female in some of them.

[essarr71]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Oh so the Witcher games are the only good RPGs with a fixed protagonist? Deus EX and Alpha Protocol say hello.

Huh?  What gave you the impression I was making a list?

Try to keep up.

[Blacklash93]

AlanC9 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
By allowing players to play whatever gender they wanted it affected the overall writing because the writers had to take this into account every single time they wrote dialogue.

That is absolutely true and all those resources could have been used to give MaleShep up to twice as much character development and up to +half as much interaction with other characters wtih the same amount of resources.

I don't see how adding a gender constraint to Shepard magically gives you that many more resources to write new dialogues. 

It cuts the VA budget a bit, sure.

VA costs would be greatly reduced and writing costs would be somewhat reduced. it would also greratly save memory on the audio files of the disk. That could significantly add to MaleShep and other characters.

It's not twice the work, but it's still pretty significant.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 06 février 2012 - 07:11 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alpha Protocol doesn't really have a fixed protagonist. Thorton's background may differ significantly, as can his personality, goals and ambitions (drastically so even). The only 2 things fixed about him are his gender and his name.

Geralt and Jensen are no where near as flexible / customizable.

EDIT: I don't mind gender selection if the protagonist is leaning more towards being a blank slate / first person. 
But as I have stated before, the middle ground is not working for me (with the exception of Mike for a lot of reasons) and I prefer fixed protagonist. The only thing I regret is that female protagonists are sadly going to be rare.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 février 2012 - 07:14 .

[essarr71]

Blacklash93 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
By allowing players to play whatever gender they wanted it affected the overall writing because the writers had to take this into account every single time they wrote dialogue.

That is absolutely true and all those resources could have been used to give MaleShep up to twice as much character development and up to +half as much interaction with other characters wtih the same amount of resources.

I don't see how adding a gender constraint to Shepard magically gives you that many more resources to write new dialogues. 

It cuts the VA budget a bit, sure.

VA costs would be greatly reduced and writing costs would be somewhat reduced. That could add a lot to MaleShep.

Would it really lead to a longer game?  I seriously doubt it.  If were beaten this topic to the point of saying "he" and "him" in out dialogue instead of "Shepard" makes a better RPG experience, I just don't think any amount of surgery will get the stick out of there.

[Costin_Razvan]

My point was only referring to Thorton's fixed gender mind you. Thorton does stand above Shepard though, well above even.

 
Would it really lead to a longer game?  I seriously doubt it.  If were beaten this topic to the point of saying "he" and "him" in out dialogue instead of "Shepard" makes a better RPG experience, I just don't think any amount of surgery will get the stick out of there. 

Just to be clear if I had to pick between having male Shepard voiced by Meer or a female voiced by Hale, I'ld pick Hale every time. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 février 2012 - 07:15 .

[Arkitekt]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I don't see how adding a gender constraint to Shepard magically gives you that many more resources to write new dialogues.

It cuts the VA budget a bit, sure.

Cutting down female Shepard would allow the writers to focus on other things, that's how. It's not just a superficial thing, because they need to consider the gender thing every time they write dialogue. How hard is to recognize that that takes time?

The amount of time doing this is infinitesimal, considering the other tons of stuff they must go through.

People complain how femshep is exactly equal to maleshep in their dialogue, etc., implying that a different character would give meaning to the difference; but in the same token, they will complain that too much is spent on this choice. I mean wtf? Present status is best of both worlds, economically speaking. Dialogue is written for both sexes in mind (and I don't find that hard at all, once you are used to it) and is almost equal for both of them. The only big investment here is the hiring of ms Hale and the hundreds of hours of her VO. Which, considering all the rest, is infinitesimal.

This complaint is bordering stupid.

[Bleachrude]

Now here's a question.

Is there a RPG with a female protoganist and if not, why isn't there?

[Arkitekt]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My point was only referring to Thorton's fixed gender mind you. Thorton does stand above Shepard though, well above even.

Having not played the game, I can't tell. But one thing is for sure, Thorton is really an ugly piece of man, and I can't see myself "roleplaying" that ridiculous character.

[Costin_Razvan]

Arkitekt wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My point was only referring to Thorton's fixed gender mind you. Thorton does stand above Shepard though, well above even.

Having not played the game, I can't tell. But one thing is for sure, Thorton is really an ugly piece of man, and I can't see myself "roleplaying" that ridiculous character.

All I can say is that Thorton needs to be played in order to be appreciated.

[Unbannable]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Unnbannable, i'm sorry but you took bad exemple to make your point:
Link is an unvoiced character that never had real conversation, to let most of people believe what they want about the hero,

What about Dragon Age Origins?  Or Planescape Torment?  I fail to see how having an unvoiced character makes a difference.
 

Geralt of Rivia is also a plain monotonic guy, you can either play him like a saint with high moral or a dirty bastrad ****ing every chick he sees and gettings things done only if there is payment

I can tell you've never played any of the Witcher games, just from this statement.

laracroft... i have yet to see what part of her make her "memorable" exept her boobs

Regardless of what you think, Lara Croft is one of the most popular and well known video game characters of all time.
 

Batman, his is not a video game hero in the first place, the character have a well know history and ideal, that is why making a video game of him could be intresting, because lot of fan would love to play as batman.

Well you're in luck because there's two highly acclaimed Batman video games that are out.  Batman Arkham Asylum and Batman Arkham City.

Both of them are truly exceptional games.

Also, Shepard wouldn't have been a much deeper character if there was no femshep, because you can already play the character as paragon / paragade / renegon / renegade or choose the grey choice.

Who said I said there should be no FemShep?  I'm not against FemShep.  If Commander Shepard would have been a fixed female character, that still would have been better than the status quo.

[AlanC9]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I don't see how adding a gender constraint to Shepard magically gives you that many more resources to write new dialogues. 

It cuts the VA budget a bit, sure.

VA costs would be greatly reduced and writing costs would be somewhat reduced. it would also greratly save memory on the audio files of the disk. That could significantly add to MaleShep and other characters.

It's not twice the work, but it's still pretty significant.

Is there any evidence that disk space is a real constraint in games?

And given the way Bio writes Shepard, very, very little dialogue writing would be saved. Most of the savings would be in cutting the FemShep-only romance tracks. Or the other way around if they go with a female Shepard.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2012 - 07:20 .

[Blacklash93]

essarr71 wrote...
Would it really lead to a longer game?  I seriously doubt it.  If were beaten this topic to the point of saying "he" and "him" in out dialogue instead of "Shepard" makes a better RPG experience, I just don't think any amount of surgery will get the stick out of there.

It would be a more in-depth game with more variables. What would go to FemShep would instead go to Maleshep and other characters, leading to more interaction and character development and C&C. That's significant.

Take the FemShep romances. MaleShep could have twice as many romances if those didn't exist. Or perhaps Bioware could apply those resources to another part of the script instead of romances to make for a deeper RP experience for the main demographic.

What wouldn't go to the VA for FemShep would be used to voice other characters and give MaleShep more lines. Again, more RP-ing for the typical male gamer.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 06 février 2012 - 07:22 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Regardless of what you think, Lara Croft is one of the most popular and well known video game characters of all time.

...Largely because of her boobs.

[Arkitekt]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My point was only referring to Thorton's fixed gender mind you. Thorton does stand above Shepard though, well above even.

Having not played the game, I can't tell. But one thing is for sure, Thorton is really an ugly piece of man, and I can't see myself "roleplaying" that ridiculous character.

All I can say is that Thorton needs to be played in order to be appreciated.

That's 100% fair. I'll never appreciate him then. 

[AlanC9]

Blacklash93 wrote...

It would be a more in-depth game with more variables. What would go to FemShep would instead go to Maleshep and other characters, leading to more interaction and character development and C&C. That's significant.

And what we gain that way we lose in replayability.