453 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

Writing and recording a Female Shepard is about as worth it to BioWare as taking the time to develop five other classes other than soldier that, statistically, the vast majority of players ignored. I'm going to guess programming the combat AI and physics for an adept trumps the time it took to write a female Shepard romance.

Honestly, everything BioWare does is a waste. To somebody. It seems.

[Jymm]

Wow, this is an amazing thread. I can defend the option both from an emotional and an economic perspective. I personally loved Jennifer Hale as femshep and I found the maleshep rather robotic and uninspiring. (sorry Mark Meer.) Its personal taste, really. I think its worth including just for variety. For people that want to play it (particularly female gamers). And the choice itself is value. Take the paragon / renegade choices. We could find one specific option where 80% of players choose paragon. But without the renegade option there is no choice. Clearly that is a loss, even to the 80%. The same applies here: the lack of choice would be a loss, even for those who choose the male version.

From an economic perspective, the cost of those extra written lines and voice acting can be calculated with some (though far from perfect) precision. There are clearly some number of players who bought the game, continue to play it, or pre-order the next installment based on their experience, including the femshep option. And quantifying that would be harder. But it wouldn't take very many lost sales to make up the difference. The extra dialog and voice recording are not major contributors to cost.

I would ignore this thread except it concerns me that someone might take this argument seriously and strip out the option on some future game (be it Bioware or otherwise.) How sad that would be.

[darthnick427]

someone just opened a can of worms by starting this thread. *Pulls up a chair and popcorn*

[Shinobu]

darthnick427 wrote...

someone just opened a can of worms by starting this thread. *Pulls up a chair and popcorn*

You're too late. I think all arguments have been made.

*edit* Okay, maybe one more round of arguing...

Modifié par Shinobu, 07 février 2012 - 04:01 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I would ignore this thread except it concerns me that someone might take this argument seriously and strip out the option on some future game (be it Bioware or otherwise.) How sad that would be.

God forbid if that happens and Bioware spends more time developing characters further with that extra time and money they didn't spend in a female character, make more C&C. Yeah that's be horrible.

I don't care and I;d bet the vast majority of people would prefer a more interesting story then having the option to pick a female character, a choice that ultimately matters squat.

[yoshibb]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

yoshibb : Maybe I like the Mass Effect Universe, maybe I love playing Mass Effect and maybe I have the right to express my opinion that getting rid of a gender, ANY gender would be a vast improvement for future games.

The reason I bring up female Shepard is that with 80% of people playing male it would be just stupid to argue that. Would I personally mind it if male PC didn't exist anymore in Bioware games? No. I speak as someone who played KOTOR 1 and 2 a hell more as a female char then a male char. Who played Jade Empire only as female.

 
The problem is, that's exactly what you'd get. You really would only get a "few more lines" that would mean absolutely nothing in the scheme of things. 

INot just a few, possibly a few hundred or even thousands. As well as more armors possibly ( since they wouldn't have to design female armors for the PC ), more cinematics that kind of stuff.

I happen to really like it, too. Why do I have to give up what I love just because I'm not in the majority? How do women know about this game and female Shepard anyway? There's not many people who go to the depths we do find out if a game is fully customizable. They aren't marketing to us.

How does this and this or this tell us anything about female shepard? How do any of these tell us that Shepard is even customizable? I saw the Mass Effect commercial and I was a little interested. That's how you draw people in. But if I wasn't bored that day, with nothing else to do, I wouldn't have picked it up. Because I play enough games with white male heroes and I want something different. And I looked it up beforehand and I couldn't find anything about gender customization. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough, but why do I have to mine for info? Isn't that marketing's job to make me want their game? It's like shoving your product under the sand and then complaining that no one wants it. If you want women and people who like female protagonists to get your game, then show off the female option.

I wouldn't be upset if there were games with female protagonists on the market but there's not. It's either gender neutral or male. Or female protagonists marketed to male. Bioware is one of the few developers that does females correctly. I can deal with the stupid boob shots, asari strippers, and all the bad animations if you just let me have my femshep.

[DiebytheSword]

1 in 5 Sheps are FemSheps, that is a not ignorable demographic.

[Costin_Razvan]

I happen to really like it, too. Why do I have to give up what I love just because I'm not in the majority?

Because the majority would prefer better games overall then something they couldn't care for at all.

How do women know about this game and female Shepard anyway

Here's a guess. A lot of female players are guys who find it intesting to play a female in a game as well besides their male character.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 février 2012 - 03:46 .

[Dragoonlordz]

You would not get much if any better writing if removed female Shepard from the equation. The only thing would get really is slightly more 'content' due to time invested. Talking new areas maybe, new items and maybe slightly longer story. However, this will not attract new fans as the quality is so high, the story is so good already that those fans already exist and they generally do not and will not choose 'not to buy' because lacks a few extra missions or hours playtime.

On the other hand removing her would have much more likely drop in fans created in comparison. So one hand no increase in fans by her removal and on other reduction of fans possible by her exclusion. Don't assume that it would increase in fans by her not being present when in reality most new fans are made by coming across the title for first time at it's current "quality" and not currently non fans due to lack of quality or desire for it to improve.

She won't be going away and it is right that she does not. Not now and not in future titles in this franchise.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 février 2012 - 03:58 .

[ADLegend21]

colejossart wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Well it's expensive writing the extra romances and I'm sure that Jen can set the price as high as she likes considering the resume.

The statistics Bioware released a couple of years ago say that 80% played mark meer shep...

So this might be due to advertising or something, but they've had the whole trilogy to make it generally known tht there is a femshep so I don't know why they'd go 2 whole games without trying to sell it until the very late last minute attempt at a trailer for femshep that still hasn't been shown yet.

I play both so yes it is worth and it's dumb consumers who have their e-penis's offended when they see a woman kicking ass. and go "wahh women can't do that" plus they paid Mark vanderloo alot of money to have his face scanned for Sheploo. Also if oyu ahven't noticed there's a very lively femshep community, which is actually more alive than the maleshep community, but we're working with them to make them both just as lively.

While I don't necessarily agree with the OP,  or the exclusion of Femshep, I have to say that the Femshep community is (like most minority groups) a very vocal minority.  The majority doesn't feel the need to yell and scream about how much they like playing Male Shepard.  It's just assumed, until stated otherwise, that most males (ergo most gamers) will play a male.

It's not about what women can or cannot do.  It's about the fact that most guys find it creepy to roleplay a female and romance a guy. And while there is a VERY active Femshep community, it's not as large as you would have us believe.

sure about that? There are Mass effect players who do not come to th BSN and voice their opinions and ther are many males who do but their big boy pants on to play femshep. More women game than than you would have us believe and they have male counterparts that play female characters and enjoy doing so. Sure 80% of people play maleshep, but there are also alot who play both, myself being one of them. I'm guessing to count as "played Maleshep" you jsut ahve to start a male playthrough and even some of the hardcore femsheppers have "started" a male playthrough, even if they've given up on the poor guy and left him on Eden Prime.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I found out about female Shepard the one time I ventured to peer out of the kitchen and caught a glimpse of a friend playing her.

But that can't be right, because I'm secretly a man.

[Costin_Razvan]

On the other hand removing her would have much more likely drop in fans created in comparison. So one hand no increase fans by her removal and on other reduction of fans possible by her exclusion.

Discussing the removal of female Shepard at this point is arguably a waste of time, and yes I do agree it would have been a waste of time even before ME2 launch. Discussing the removal of future female characters to improve quality in future games is different.

The forums do not represent the majority, the majority of ME2 gamers romanced Lawson while playing male I bet, despite how many fans Tali has. I for one though, very much doubt those 20% who played fem Shepard are all women, or even a majority.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 février 2012 - 03:54 .

[Volus Warlord]

Yes. It gave the femmes something to do.

[WizenSlinky0]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

INot just a few, possibly a few hundred or even thousands. As well as more armors possibly ( since they wouldn't have to design female armors for the PC ), more cinematics that kind of stuff.

Unlikely. The differences between male and female shepard are not very heavy. The armors mostly carry similar designs just with some...areas, expanded upon. I somehow doubt this takes a whole lot of time to do.

I can't help but think you're heavily overestimating the amount of time put into having two genders.

If anything, I'm surprised they didn't put *more* effort into having the experiences be a bit more unique. But like I said, overall the current situation is ideal.

Random Jerkface wrote...

The desire to make inappropriate jokes is strong.

I thought I was the only one.

Teehee.

Ah, my mind, it is tainted with words. Dirty, Dirty words.

[erilben]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The forums do not represent the majority, the majority of ME2 gamers romanced Lawson while playing male I bet, despite how much many fans Tali has.

Actually Chris Priestly told us that only a vocal minority do any type romance. If anything, Bioware should cut every single romance.

[Shinobu]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I happen to really like it, too. Why do I have to give up what I love just because I'm not in the majority?

Because the majority would prefer better games overall then something they couldn't care for at all.

Did you refuse to play ME2 because money was "wasted" on including FemShep? No. You're already hooked, bub, and you'll buy ME3 whether or not FemShep is included. I, on the other hand, won't buy ME games if she isn't included. So where is the incentive for Bioware to drop her to add another 20% to the game length? Dropping FemShep will not increase units sold, only decrease it.

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How do women know about this game and female Shepard anyway?

Here's a guess. A lot of female players are guys who find it intesting to play a female in a game as well besides their male character.

This is a non sequitur. But anyway, why would you deny those guys the pleasure of playing as another gender for the sake of 20% more content?

[ediskrad327]

Bioware should cut out having femshep, and character customization, and classes and choises,and also save their time writing interesting characters to make a FPS and appeal to the call of duty crowd

[yoshibb]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I happen to really like it, too. Why do I have to give up what I love just because I'm not in the majority?

Because the majority would prefer better games overall then something they couldn't care for at all.

How do women know about this game and female Shepard anyway

Here's a guess. A lot of female players are guys who find it intesting to play a female in a game as well besides their male character.

Um, I just posted why more people aren't playing femshep and why we are in the minority. Studies show that Forty-two percent of all players are women and women over 18 years of age are one of the industry's fastest growing demographics. What did Bioware marketing do to reach out to these people before ME1 and ME2?

Again, you are looking at a specific demographic and saying they are the most important, but not even trying to market to the other side. But you aren't actually the majority. This is what the majority wants:

Modifié par yoshibb, 07 février 2012 - 04:01 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

erilben wrote...

Actually Chris Priestly told us that only a vocal minority do any type romance. If anything, Bioware should cut every single romance.

I support this motion.

And quality seems to be conflated with quantity an awful lot in this thread.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 07 février 2012 - 04:00 .

[Costin_Razvan]

ediskrad327 wrote...

Bioware should cut out having femshep, and character customization, and classes and choises,and also save their time writing interesting characters to make a FPS and appeal to the call of duty crowd

How the bloody hell does advocating cutting down femshep mean advocating having more of the bloody rest? Choices, dialoge, armors, cinematics? That's my argument, I want more of other stuff then two genders.

 
Again, you are looking at a specific demographic and saying they are the most important, but not even trying to market to the other side. But you aren't actually the majority. This is what the majority wants: 

So amusing, I bet you never played a shooter in your life. I've played every single CoD game and a few Battlefield games. I guess that makes me a retard because I dare love playing shooters right? Right. Do you know what the appeal of CoD? The multiplayer, and I don't mean damned Co-Op I mean versus mode.

Here's a shocker, a lot of people play games from many different genres, and here's another one. A lot of people would enjoy it if there was a ME game with true MP like CoD or Gears of War has it.

 
Actually Chris Priestly told us that only a vocal minority do any type romance. If anything, Bioware should cut every single romance. 

Or do them better. There is just so very little to them overall. ( someone like Garrus gets very little dialogue for romance as an example ).

I do admit I am surprised by your statement however.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 février 2012 - 04:13 .

[Knubbsal]

I only bought ME since of femshep. I skipped it on sale since I thought it was another "guy in space"-game. Then my brother showed me he just started a femshep and I was hooked. So from my personal experience I can only say it can't hurt to have a bit more advertisement for femshep.

[WizenSlinky0]

erilben wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The forums do not represent the majority, the majority of ME2 gamers romanced Lawson while playing male I bet, despite how much many fans Tali has.

Actually Chris Priestly told us that only a vocal minority do any type romance. If anything, Bioware should cut every single romance.

Bleh, that would totally slaughter the replay value for me. I pretty much make the same choices every playthrough, so I kinda need an excuse to go back through.

Though, I can't say I'd care if they never did the whole romance thing again. I would rather like to finish the one already you know...started, though. Would be a bit jarring to have them just...gone. Like Earth!

[What a Succulent Ass]

I don't do romances, making me the majority. This makes your desires invalid.

Deal with it.

[yoshibb]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Again, you are looking at a specific demographic and saying they are the most important, but not even trying to market to the other side. But you aren't actually the majority. This is what the majority wants: 

So amusing, I bet you never played a shooter in your life. I've played every single CoD game and a few Battlefield games. I guess that makes me a retard because I dare love playing shooters right? Right. 

Yeah, that's what I said  No, I have played a lot of shooters. But you are telling me that you want a game with more dialogue, customization, cutscenes, and focus on a main male protagonist. I'm guessing you want it more like the Witcher. But the majority doesn't want any of that stuff. The majority want shooters with minimal plot and a whole lot of action. So if Bioware wants to appeal to the majority, they should make another third person shooter and forget about the whole epic choice and consequence thing.

[tklivory]

Random Jerkface wrote...

I don't do romances, making me the majority. This makes your desires invalid.

Deal with it.

*snicker* hehe... BWAHAHAHA!

Oh, that was priceless.  Please, like, continue.  That was such a totally gnarly keen awesomesauce argument backed by such magnificent logic that I wonder how any of us can, like, stand before the totally non-bogus nature of your insurmountable words.

Thanks!  That's almost better than 42 pancakes.