453 réponses à ce sujet

[darksoulenigma]

To answer the question: um, hell yes.

Why? Because I wouldn't have gotten past 5 minutes of Mark Meer's coma-inducing voice "acting". Therefore, I would never have bought the sequels. I have three male saves and I find all three painful...extremely so.

[tklivory]

The shame of pancakes aside, I think I will actually post a non-whimsy induced statement.

*ahem*

I never even considered getting Mass Effect until it was on very, very cheap sale during the annual Steam holiday sale (same with Dragon Age, actually, but that's another story). This was due to the fact that, in general, I just don't play FPS. My favorite FPS is Bioshock (first one) and Painkiller, both pretty much single-person and neither of them 'space-marine' type of games. (Just my type of gaming preference). I enjoyed Mass Effect and have played through it several times, mostly as femShep, and mostly because of the VA (again, sorry Mr. Meer).

Do I like the romance? I guess, though they're not as compelling as the Dragon Age ones. And Ashley has some aspects about her character that I dislike, for purely personal reasons.

In general, though, I know they will keep femShep. After all, aside from losing potentially 20% of their market, they don't want to deal with the marketing backlash of the sexist accusations.

As for the marketing, it makes sense they market femShep less, if the demographic represents a minority. However, a market is a market, and since the cost of having a femShep most certainly does not equal more than 20% of the budget, it would be foolish from a business standpoint to discount that minority simply because it *is* a minority.

*disclaimer: own ME2, never actually played it yet... Huh. Gotta fix that one o' these days...*

[Yuqi]

Me3 femshep is more visually appealing then broshep.

[XDMMX]

^ That could depend alot on your orientation.

[Costin_Razvan]

Can you elaborate on that statement? I am genuinely confused about how good you find Obisidian's storytelling.

KOTOR 2 Kreia, Visas, Disciple, Mira.

Alpha Protocol: Thorton, Leland, Marburg, Albatross.

Those are awesome characters. Check this out:  www.youtube.com/watch Thorton makes Renegade Shepard look like a child.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 février 2012 - 06:06 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

tklivory wrote...

The shame of pancakes aside, I think I will actually post a non-whimsy induced statement.

*ahem*

I never even considered getting Mass Effect until it was on very, very cheap sale during the annual Steam holiday sale (same with Dragon Age, actually, but that's another story). This was due to the fact that, in general, I just don't play FPS. My favorite FPS is Bioshock (first one) and Painkiller, both pretty much single-person and neither of them 'space-marine' type of games. (Just my type of gaming preference). I enjoyed Mass Effect and have played through it several times, mostly as femShep, and mostly because of the VA (again, sorry Mr. Meer).

Do I like the romance? I guess, though they're not as compelling as the Dragon Age ones. And Ashley has some aspects about her character that I dislike, for purely personal reasons.

In general, though, I know they will keep femShep. After all, aside from losing potentially 20% of their market, they don't want to deal with the marketing backlash of the sexist accusations.

As for the marketing, it makes sense they market femShep less, if the demographic represents a minority. However, a market is a market, and since the cost of having a femShep most certainly does not equal more than 20% of the budget, it would be foolish from a business standpoint to discount that minority simply because it *is* a minority.

*disclaimer: own ME2, never actually played it yet... Huh. Gotta fix that one o' these days...*

You didn't miss much, ME2 seemed more like filler than anything, ME3 is going to have the answers we need.

[Perkocet13]

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

[Unbannable]

Random Jerkface wrote...

And I don't think that cutting out customisation would have necessarily improved this at all, because Shepard's blandness is an issue of writing more than anything else. Much of ME has Shepard taking a passive role instead of an active one, and being reactive rather than proactive. It's down to character interaction; the series would have greatly benefited if it allowed the player options that made for a more competent Shepard (as a commander, this character sorely lacks this) that could volunteer information (personal or otherwise) and express emotions other than MAD!/DETERMINED!, instead of stumbling through the game like an FNG with a gun who never bothered to crack open a book and/or an extranet terminal. Most of ME1's more inspired conversations are the ones in which Shepard is allowed to talk about her/himself.

A large part of it is due to bad writing undoubtedly, but much of it is also due to lack of advanced characterization, which I think could have been remedied if Shepard had been more defined from inception.

Writing voiced dialogue for two genders and multiple personalities hamstrung the writers significantly, and prevented them from fleshing out Shepard in a way that would make him/her more believable and organic, as they had to limit character development and character interaction far more so than if Shepard had been a defined character.

[incinerator950]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

Mark Meer?  Nah, he's got emotion, check out his interview.  Should be floating around here somewhere.

[darksoulenigma]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

For Male Shep, absolutely yes.

I was actually extremely surprised to find out he did other voices for the game (the vorcha, for instance) and I think he does a good job but for Shepard? He's terrible...especially when compared to Jennifer Hale's FemShep.

[XDMMX]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

When people say this I always wonder if I am playing the same game as everyone else? I personally think Mark Meer does excellent work, his Renegade lines are especially awesome, he sounds like a hardened Marine, who has been through hell and back.

[tklivory]

Unbannable wrote...
Writing voiced dialogue for two genders and multiple personalities hamstrung the writers significantly, and prevented them from fleshing out Shepard in a way that would make him/her more believable and organic, as they had to limit character development and character interaction far more so than if Shepard had been a defined character.

I just can't buy into this argument.  If that were true, then games that only had one gender for their protagonist would *all* inherently be better, and yet they are clearly not.  In the case of Mass Effect, Bioware wanted to present a particular kind of experience - where the character would determine the nature of the PC, NOT present them with a fully-fleshed, completely pre-determined path.  In the Witcher, Geralt is a fully developed experience that the character rides along with.  And one shouldn't say that the writing in the Witcher was 'better' (hush, Costin, keep reading) because of the restricted options in character creation.  It is a disservice to compare those two (new IP vs game based on existing books) just like it's unfair to declare that an automatic transmission is 'better' than a manual/standard.  It comes down to preference, in the end.

Sometimes, I want to flesh out my character in my head.  Then I turn to ME and DA, so that I can put all the non-explicit aspects of the PC in a mental script that influences my choices.  Sometimes I want to experience a marvelous story and compelling characters via the medium of a PC game.  Then I turn to the Witcher.  Sometimes I want to do sneaky stuff with parkour and Renaissance Italy.  Then I play Assassin's Creed 2/2.5/2.75.  Sometimes I want to play a game that most modern gamers wouldn't even be able to endure, but is still great.  Then I play Betrayal at Krondor.

All of those games, I am sure, 'suffered' because of decisions made early on in their cycle (the Witcher had plenty of detractors, after all), and yet they are all wonderful games within their bailiwick.  So, I say, let the games be enjoyed as they are meant to be.  ME is NOT a FPS (despite the marketing), not entirely, and it shouldn't be pigeonholed that way.

[Unbannable]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

Yeah, because elite soldiers like Shepard are overly emotional wind bags  

[rapscallioness]

@Unbannable: I'm glad you're not making the game.

Having the character so set and defined was One of the things DA2 fans raged about.

Besides which, male and female shepard have the same friggin' lines. You're customizing your character, but it's the same character. It's like you're saying because someone's Shepard has brown hair instead of blonde hair, it's impeded their character development. No.

The only difference would be in the romances, and Liara picked up the slack quite nicely in that dept.

Being able to customize your character has nothing to do with how they decided to flesh it out. Otr the lack thereof. It's the same character, it just looks different from one player to the next.

I understand what you're trying to get at. I just think it's a bad idea.

[Pacifien]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

I used to. Then I played Skyrim.

Mark Meer's totally all right in my book. His Shepard can tell Ashley Williams about his favorite chapter in the Bible. It's the one with the pirates and the flying around the Earth until it spins backwards a couple days and Lois Lane forgets everything.

But it took a long, long road to get me to that point.

[rapscallioness]

Unbannable wrote...

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

Yeah, because elite soldiers like Shepard are overly emotional wind bags  

Hale's rendition of FemShep is far from an "emotional windbag".  In fact, I find it barely emotional.

Edit to say: And I love Mark Meer. I love Sheploo, too. Now can you all just back up and let a woman breath? Damn. Can a girl get her game on? Without having to go thru this crap all the time?

Modifié par rapscallioness, 07 février 2012 - 07:10 .

[Pacifien]

rapscallioness wrote...
Having the character so set and defined was One of the things DA2 fans raged about.

One thing I have learned in reading all the BioWare forums over the years is that, while there is crossover fans, there is a noticeable difference between a Dragon Age fan and a Mass Effect fan. I don't know, I think it's like tossing a fantasy geek in with a science fiction nerd and telling them to have it out, and you make BioWare promise to love whichever one survives.

I don't actually have a point in pointing that out other than to point that out.

[Costin_Razvan]

Having the character so set and defined was One of the things DA2 fans raged about.

Actually the thing that enraged fans was that Hawke was defined AND that the DA completely ****ing fail to properly write his Origins or make you care about Hawke's family. I cared about Bethany, but Leandra, Carver? No way.

It was done vastly better with the origins in ME. It might not seem much, but it was far better done then Hawke.

[rapscallioness]

Pacifien wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...
Having the character so set and defined was One of the things DA2 fans raged about.

One thing I have learned in reading all the BioWare forums over the years is that, while there is crossover fans, there is a noticeable difference between a Dragon Age fan and a Mass Effect fan. I don't know, I think it's like tossing a fantasy geek in with a science fiction nerd and telling them to have it out, and you make BioWare promise to love whichever one survives.

I don't actually have a point in pointing that out other than to point that out.

Yes, there is a difference..I think. But I know that if BW took away customization of their PC's, you'd have raging ME fans, too.

[Golden Owl]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

That's all a matter of opinion and preference...I much prefer his no nonsense staunch Marine approach over the too emotional inflections given femShep....But as I state tis' all a matter of opinion and preference.

[Golden Owl]

Reading over the pages, it seems to be assumed a little too often that femShep was the attraction for more female gamers, I don't actually get that...why?....

As an older female gamer I am a solid manShep player....I have tried to run a femShep 3-4 times but just don't enjoy it myself...but I would also not really enjoy the game as much as I do if I was unable to customize my manShep' appearance (Sheploo just holds no appeal to me) or choose a class...Infiltrator all the way.......I know if Mass Effect wasn't so customizable to personal taste and choice, it would have just been another failed attempt for me to find a game I really enjoy...I am very fussy games wise.....So gender choice, face choice, class choice, out look choice (ren/para)...BRING IT ON BW!!...

Modifié par Golden Owl, 07 février 2012 - 07:29 .

[Unbannable]

tklivory wrote...

I just can't buy into this argument.  If that were true, then games that only had one gender for their protagonist would *all* inherently be better, and yet they are clearly not.

 

There's plenty of other factors that go into making a great game, so obviously the statement that all games would be inherently better simply due to having one gender would be false.

How many games even offer two genders anyway?  It's a rarity outside of RPGs.

In the case of Mass Effect, Bioware wanted to present a particular kind of experience - where the character would determine the nature of the PC, NOT present them with a fully-fleshed, completely pre-determined path.  In the Witcher, Geralt is a fully developed experience that the character rides along with.

And what you end up with in Mass Effect is a character that is much more limited in terms of characterization and interaction, than say Geralt of Rivia.  

The choice of gender, rather than having a meaningful impact on the story and plot, is practically reduced to a mere aesthetic concern.

Now some people like this, because both MaleShep and FemShep are supposed to be the same person.  But from a realistic perspective, the character ends up being less organic and believable imo, which is a disservice in a heavily character driven game like Mass Effect.

And one shouldn't say that the writing in the Witcher was 'better' (hush, Costin, keep reading) because of the restricted options in character creation.  It is a disservice to compare those two (new IP vs game based on existing books) just like it's unfair to declare that an automatic transmission is 'better' than a manual/standard.  It comes down to preference, in the end.

The Mass Effect IP has been poorly handled, and Bioware itself has admitted that it makes up everything as it goes a long.  This has led to quite a few inconsistencies from what I've seen.

Anyway, we're not discussing IP.  We're discussing the merits of a defined character vs an open ended one.

[CroGamer002]

yoshibb wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I happen to really like it, too. Why do I have to give up what I love just because I'm not in the majority?

Because the majority would prefer better games overall then something they couldn't care for at all.

How do women know about this game and female Shepard anyway

Here's a guess. A lot of female players are guys who find it intesting to play a female in a game as well besides their male character.

Um, I just posted why more people aren't playing femshep and why we are in the minority. Studies show that Forty-two percent of all players are women and women over 18 years of age are one of the industry's fastest growing demographics. What did Bioware marketing do to reach out to these people before ME1 and ME2?

Again, you are looking at a specific demographic and saying they are the most important, but not even trying to market to the other side. But you aren't actually the majority. This is what the majority wants:

Well, that game is good.

Unlike previous one and on that came after.

[CroGamer002]

Also, gonna add this again.

Mesina2 wrote...

18% is not something to spit on, OP.


Those are actually quite high number.


Last year( before E3), it was confirmed that ME1 and ME2 sold over 7 million copies.

So let's split that to 3.5 million people.

18% of that is 630,000.

So that's quite a big number of potentially returning customers for ME3.

21,600,000 $ to be earn from those people in ME3.
And that's if they all buy non-used standard edition of ME3 near it's launch.
It can be even more since lot of them will buy Collector Edition.


So yeah, I'm pretty sure FemShep was worth it.

[Unbannable]

rapscallioness wrote...

@Unbannable: I'm glad you're not making the game.

Having the character so set and defined was One of the things DA2 fans raged about.

Besides which, male and female shepard have the same friggin' lines. You're customizing your character, but it's the same character. It's like you're saying because someone's Shepard has brown hair instead of blonde hair, it's impeded their character development. No.

So you're comparing the choice of gender to the choice of having brown or blonde hair? 

Gender (or sex to be more accurate) is a bit more involved I would think. 

I understand what you're trying to get at. I just think it's a bad idea.

How is it a bad idea?  All of the most famous and popular video game characters have defined attributes.  Thats a large part of what makes a character memorable and unique.

The Baldurs Gate series was critically acclaimed, but no one remembers who the bhaal spawn was.  Why?  Because the bhaal spawn was an open ended character with no defined attributes.

Jon Irenicus, the antagonist, is much more memorable than the hero/heroine.

Modifié par Unbannable, 07 février 2012 - 07:52 .