453 réponses à ce sujet

[StephanieBengal]

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

In the first two Mass Effect games, yes I agree. However from all I've heard from Mark Meer in Mass Effect 3 he's really nailing it this time. 

[Unbannable]

rapscallioness wrote...

Hale's rendition of FemShep is far from an "emotional windbag".  In fact, I find it barely emotional.

Edit to say: And I love Mark Meer. I love Sheploo, too. Now can you all just back up and let a woman breath? Damn. Can a girl get her game on? Without having to go thru this crap all the time?

I said nothing about Hale being overly emotional.  My point was that Shepard is an elite soldier, and guys like that aren't exactly the most emotionally expressive people, especially when they're on the job.

[atheelogos]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Well it's expensive writing the extra romances and I'm sure that Jen can set the price as high as she likes considering the resume.

The statistics Bioware released a couple of years ago say that 80% played mark meer shep...

So this might be due to advertising or something, but they've had the whole trilogy to make it generally known tht there is a femshep so I don't know why they'd go 2 whole games without trying to sell it until the very late last minute attempt at a trailer for femshep that still hasn't been shown yet.

For me yes. I have 26 sheps and half of them are femsheps

[atheelogos]

StephanieBengal wrote...

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

In the first two Mass Effect games, yes I agree. However from all I've heard from Mark Meer in Mass Effect 3 he's really nailing it this time. 

I've never understood that criticism. He's always sounded good to me.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Mark Meer isn't really good, but I believe he is underrated.

atheelogos wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Well it's expensive writing the extra romances and I'm sure that Jen can set the price as high as she likes considering the resume.

The statistics Bioware released a couple of years ago say that 80% played mark meer shep...

So this might be due to advertising or something, but they've had the whole trilogy to make it generally known tht there is a femshep so I don't know why they'd go 2 whole games without trying to sell it until the very late last minute attempt at a trailer for femshep that still hasn't been shown yet.

For me yes. I have 26 sheps and half of them are femsheps

How?

[tklivory]

Unbannable wrote...

There's plenty of other factors that go into making a great game, so obviously the statement that all games would be inherently better simply due to having one gender would be false.

How many games even offer two genders anyway?  It's a rarity outside of RPGs.

Well, I guess I read your original statement as a blanket 'the dual gender/multiple personality' limited the writers, therefore removing that would have made the game better.  Thus I moved from that argument to the assumption that all games not 'suffering' from dual gender et al would be better.  It was intended to be a false statement, as I see the inclusion of dual gender et al leading to a weaker, lesser product to also be a false statement.

Unbannable wrote... 

And what you end up with in Mass Effect is a character that is much more limited in terms of characterization and interaction, than say Geralt of Rivia.

No, you end up with a character that is *intended* to be imprinted upon by the player, not one who is more limited.  You end up with *less* limitations *if you choose to view it this way*.  Now, this is *not* everyone's cup o' tea, but I *like* having a character where I can mentally conjure up dozens, if not hundreds, of reasons why "Shepherd does _fill in the blank_".  I can't do that with Geralt, because he is Geralt and intended to be what he is: a pre-made, complex, and fascinating character with very little room for the player to insert "fill in the blanks".  I *can* do it with Shepherd, if I so choose, because that is what was intended.  This isn't poor writing, it is a *choice* made by the writers. 

Unbannable wrote... 
The choice of gender, rather than having a meaningful impact on the story and plot, is practically reduced to a mere aesthetic concern.

Now some people like this, because both MaleShep and FemShep are supposed to be the same person.  But from a realistic perspective, the character ends up being less organic and believable imo, which is a disservice in a heavily character driven game like Mass Effect.

Again, boils down to what you mean by 'character driven'.  If you want a fully-developed, everything's been decided for you character (like *most* characters are in video games across the board), then, yes, I would see Shepherd as 'less organic and believable'.  But I don't see him/her that way, and therefore I don't see the gender choice as being limited due to that.

To me, ME is very much a 'journey' game, as opposed to a mere 'gameplay' game (thankfully).  I see Shepherd - whatever gender - to be deliberately designed to be role-played.  If you don't like role-playing, then the 'character' will seem lacking, but it is a disservice to the character and the writers to say that they 'failed' because of choices they  made to effect a deliberate end result (whether or not you *agree* with those choices of development).  This ultimately boils down to taste, but I prefer ME to many, many games I've played with firmly defined protagonists.

Unbannable wrote... 
The Mass Effect IP has been poorly handled, and Bioware itself has admitted that it makes up everything as it goes a long.  This has led to quite a few inconsistencies from what I've seen.

Anyway, we're not discussing IP.  We're discussing the merits of a defined character vs an open ended one.

Maybe it's the comic book reader in me, but I've become mainly inured to inconsistencies in stories and characters.  Give me a good product, I'll consume it.  Give me a consistent product that isn't good or doesn't interest me, and I'll leave it on the shelf. 

Also, I wouldn't say I'm particularly discussing the "merits" of defined vs open-ended myself.  I'd more call it a preference, like preferring FPS to RPG to fighting.  Comparing the merits of defined vs open ended is like comparing automatic to manual/standard: you can learn how to drive both easily, but most seem to prefer one over the other, or (like me) you like both *if* they are well done *within their parameters*.  I wouldn't want the choice of gender choice in, say, Assassin's Creed, any more than I would want choices that I had previously been presented removed (*sniff*, no dwarf in DA2?).

Defined characters merely serve a different purpose and are used in different kinds of gaming experiences than open-ended, player-defined characters.  I certainly don't think that a game would be automagically improved by switching from one to the other, and I think embracing the design philosophy of the game the way the creators intended greatly enhances the enjoyment of the game.  So, if you prefer defined characters, avoid Bioware.  If you like making your own characters, don't play anything in the Action Adventure genre.  *shrug*  But I wouldn't want to see Bioware remove those choices, at all.

Modifié par tklivory, 07 février 2012 - 08:13 .

[Boiny Bunny]

I can see where you're coming from Tetris. <20% overall femsheps created is a very low number, and such numbers have influenced Bioware to cut customization options before (e.g. The dwarf option in DA:O, which only 12% of created wardens were, IIRC) - but the issue goes a little deeper than that.

Cutting too many customization options, regardless of how much each one is used, will affect overall perceptions of a game. If ME forced all players to play as Sheploo (male and no customization), they would probably lose a fair chunk of the RPG market. Players like choice, even when they don't pick all the options over dozens of playthroughs.

Being paragon would be almost meaningless for example, if there were no renegade options.

Just some food for thought...

I doubt Bioware will ever cut the female option in their games - if it comes to not many players using her, they'll simply reduce the female exclusive content (e.g. Less romance options - like many old Bioware games)

[Mr.House]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Geralt is a far deeper and interesting character then Shepard could ever claim to be. Michael Thorton is deeper and more interesting ( you can play him as a real psychopath, a REAL manipulative bastard, a real hero or a real James Bond character ).

As for people expecting gender choices in RPGs, no. Just take a look at the witcher, people expect CHOICES overall with consequences.

Now as I said I wouldn't mind being forced playing a female character all. But I know Bioware wouldn't pull it off without a massive outcry.

Geralt and Michael are as intresting as rust on a pan.

[tetrisblock4x1]

At least they do interesting things. Michael can be really devious and manipulative and he can keep it up consistently throughout the game. Cerberus misplaced Shepards brain and put a potato between his ears.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 07 février 2012 - 08:43 .

[StephanieBengal]

atheelogos wrote...

StephanieBengal wrote...

Perkocet13 wrote...

Does anyone else think the voice actor for the male shep is alittle monotone? I can't stand that guys voice acting, almost no emotion.

In the first two Mass Effect games, yes I agree. However from all I've heard from Mark Meer in Mass Effect 3 he's really nailing it this time. 

I've never understood that criticism. He's always sounded good to me.

Well I think he's a good VO even though I didn't like how he sounded in the previous games. Everyone has preferences anyway. 

[Unbannable]

tklivory wrote...

No, you end up with a character that is *intended* to be imprinted upon by the player, not one who is more limited.  You end up with *less* limitations *if you choose to view it this way*.  Now, this is *not* everyone's cup o' tea, but I *like* having a character where I can mentally conjure up dozens, if not hundreds, of reasons why "Shepherd does _fill in the blank_".  I can't do that with Geralt, because he is Geralt and intended to be what he is: a pre-made, complex, and fascinating character with very little room for the player to insert "fill in the blanks".  I *can* do it with Shepherd, if I so choose, because that is what was intended.  This isn't poor writing, it is a *choice* made by the writers. 

In theory, you'd think that with Shepard you'd have more options and choices in how you roleplay the character.  But in practice, you actually have an inferior roleplaying experience with Shepard, as adversed to Geralt of Rivia because Geralt's level of characterization is much higher than Shepard's..

While Geralt of Rivia is in many ways predefined, there is still a large degree of openess in how you roleplay his character; much more so than with Shepard.

If you've ever played the Witcher and or Witcher 2, then you'd know that the games abound with choices and different paths you can take which have a dramatic effect on the story's plot arc.

The only place where Mass Effect beats the Witcher in customization, is in appearance; most notably it's ability to select gender.

Everything else, Geralt is pretty much just as customizable as Shepard.  You can roleplay Geralt as a swordsman, a mage, an alchemist, or a combination of all three.  You can make him a sinner or a saint, merciful or ruthless, faithful or unfaithful, supporter of the Scoia'tael or the Flaming Rose, or play him as straight down the line neutral.

So with that said, I'd have to disagree that Shepard is more customizable than Geralt.  In some ways Shepard is, but overall, Geralt definitely has more roleplaying options.

Modifié par Unbannable, 07 février 2012 - 09:10 .

[Mr.House]

Unbannable wrote...

tklivory wrote...

No, you end up with a character that is *intended* to be imprinted upon by the player, not one who is more limited.  You end up with *less* limitations *if you choose to view it this way*.  Now, this is *not* everyone's cup o' tea, but I *like* having a character where I can mentally conjure up dozens, if not hundreds, of reasons why "Shepherd does _fill in the blank_".  I can't do that with Geralt, because he is Geralt and intended to be what he is: a pre-made, complex, and fascinating character with very little room for the player to insert "fill in the blanks".  I *can* do it with Shepherd, if I so choose, because that is what was intended.  This isn't poor writing, it is a *choice* made by the writers. 

In theory, you'd think that with Shepard you'd have more options and choices in how you roleplay the character.  But in practice, you actually have an inferior roleplaying experience with Shepard, as adversed to Geralt of Rivia because Geralt's level of characterization is much higher than Shepard's..

While Geralt of Rivia is in many ways predefined, there is still a large degree of openess in how you roleplay his character; much more so than with Shepard.

If you've ever played the Witcher and or Witcher 2, then you'd know that the games abound with choices and different paths you can take which have a dramatic effect on the story's plot arc.

The only place where Mass Effect beats the Witcher in customization, is in appearance; most notably it's ability to select gender.

Everything else, Geralt is pretty much just as customizable as Shepard.  You can roleplay Geralt as a swordsman, a mage, an alchemist, or a combination of all three.  You can make him a sinner or a saint, merciful or ruthless, faithful or unfaithful, supporter of the Scoia'tael or the Flaming Rose, or play him as straight down the line neutral.

So with that said, I'd have to disagree that Shepard is more customizable than Geralt.  In some ways Shepard is, but overall, Geralt definitely has more roleplaying options.

You can't be gay as Geralt, you can as Shepard, so Shepard does indeed have more options.

[handheld]

Handheld Himself likes the speaking of both male and non male shepards. Handheld Himself shall thoroughly enjoy the mouth movings of them.

[Stardusk78]

What I find funny is all the women who love that Femshep is strong, nonsexualised and treated equally when, yes, that's true but very few of them would ever want that to be a realty for women in the present. I doubt many women would want to be conscripted, sent off to war, have their family court privileges taken away from them, their special women's help centres and so on. So, yes Femsehp is the true indepedent woman but that is only a nondesireable fantasy for most women in reality.

[GodWood]

Femshep wasn't conscripted.

[Stardusk78]

GodWood wrote...

Femshep wasn't conscripted.

No, she wasn't and how many modern women want to join the military to go fight in a war on the frontlines?

[GodWood]

How many men do?

I sure as hell don't.

[Stardusk78]

GodWood wrote...

How many men do?

I sure as hell don't.

That is not the point, the point is, how many men do compared to how many women? do you know what the death toll is in Iraq for American soldiers broken down along sex? Femshep is very cool, precisely because she is a woman without special privileges that does things very, very few modern women would ever want to do, without all the support centres. In a very striking way she is the exact opposite of a feminist woman.

[Bobrzy]

Just my opinion:

I've made around 10 Sheps, and only one was FemShep. I say "was", because i didn't manage to finish the game, and had to delete the save just to feel better.

Hale voice was... annoying (no offence). I hate the way she tries to show some emotions, it always turns out to look just weirdly. Besides - i simply can't enjoy playing as female in any game, that's why i hated Tomb Raider series, Bloodryane etc. No male chars for me to grab - no fun. Playing as a guy is much more immersive for me, and that is what i'm looking for in games.

Again, this is just my opinion, i understand that FemShep has a lot of fans, but for me it was painful to play as her.

[Inspectre]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

The statistics Bioware released a couple of years ago say that 80% played mark meer shep...

It may have been said,  but is it not possible that Biowares profits are 20% higher with femshep?

Probably closer to 7-12% tops but I for one would not have looked at the series without her.  Now I own most of the DLCs, preordered figures and bought the books. 

In summary, femshep is awesome.

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 07 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[Wynne]

[meme image removed]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Well it's expensive writing the extra romances and I'm sure that Jen can set the price as high as she likes considering the resume.

The statistics Bioware released a couple of years ago say that 80% played mark meer shep...

So this might be due to advertising or something, but they've had the whole trilogy to make it generally known tht there is a femshep so I don't know why they'd go 2 whole games without trying to sell it until the very late last minute attempt at a trailer for femshep that still hasn't been shown yet.

Because 18% of their 2 million sales of Mass Effect 2--that's 360,000 copies of the game and $21,600,000--apparently came from FemShep players? That's absolutely worth advertising, especially since they likely don't even have a full 18% complement of female gamers, let alone the 40 that would be more appropriate. (Remember, women make up roughly 70% of the casual games market and 20% of shooters like Call of Duty, so 40% is in fact a reasonably solid figure to ask for in a hybrid genre like this which has plenty to appeal to women rather than just plot-devoid romanceless action combat.)

FemShep happened and now she's happening even more. Look, we get that you're in love with Mark Meer, but he's not the only Shepard whether you make these threads or not. Deal with it already. 

[meme image removed]

yoshibb wrote...

Until now, Femshep had not even been marketed as an option. As i've said a dozen times, I almost passed over Mass Effect cause I thought it was just another generic male space marine game with some RPG elements.

Quite. Without knowing it was a Bioware game and thus looking for info about whether there was a FemShep, I would not have bought Mass Effect 1. Or the CE of 2, or the CE of 3. 

If you think long-term, FemShep is already worth far more than 21 million, ESPECIALLY now that they've committed to advertising her. Sure, ManShep's ass might be worth more, but if I were a company which knew that it had a perfect setup to woo the average female gamer and quite possibly double or quadruple that 21 million? What kind of crazy company wouldn't try?

Assuming ME3 goes mainstream, a trailer for FemShep cannot go wrong. It gets the word out on the fact that the Mass Effect series lets you choose characteristics for Shepard. It advertises the replay value of two different actors, and markets the game a little extra as something other than another generic shooter. That can ONLY be good. The market is oversaturated with clones of clones of clones, and gamers are ready for more. 

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 07 février 2012 - 05:21 .

[Captain Crash]

Bobrzy wrote...

Just my opinion:

I've made around 10 Sheps, and only one was FemShep. I say "was", because i didn't manage to finish the game, and had to delete the save just to feel better.

I can understand how you feel, because I feel the exact opposite. I couldnt get my maleshep past Horizon and I really did try. Probably will get deleted at some point as well.  Meer is a good voice actor, but his stoic approach to Shepard is just so boring compared to Hales.  I love how Hale actually puts something into it.  Ahhhh well no huge loss. It makes me glad I had the choice because I enjoying Mass Effect a hundred fold because of femshep.


17 pages on this though? Really?!!

Plus if she wasnt worth writing she certainly isnt worth marketing or doing a trailer for.... oh wait, thats happening. 

Modifié par Captain Crash, 07 février 2012 - 11:23 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

To the OP: Yes, those FemShep numbers of BW were controversial. If you look at my poll then you see something different. No doubt most people have created a MaleShep, but that does not mean it is their favorite character. A lot of people like me have created a MaleShep, but actually play a FemShep more often. BW's 80% figure was vague, because motivation and the actual measurement conditions were left out. For a comparison click the link of the poll in my sig. There FemShep is more popular, even though most people played a MaleShep as well. The results surprised me.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 07 février 2012 - 11:41 .

[Nu-Nu]

People need to accept that variety is what makes the world go round and better. Having the same sugary dessert is going to make you feel ill, and having the same main meal will make you feel bloated and bored. Heck maybe some people don't even like dessert but it seems stupid to get rid of it because those people don't like it.

Whether some people main meal is Mass effect and the Witcher is the dessert or vice versa.

My point is, I like variety, I like that Bioware, Bethesda and fable games where the main characters are not set in stone, and I like characters where they're set like Bioshock, Dead Space, Alan Wake (character/story great, gameplay just awful) and any final fantasy before ff12.

So what if the Shepard's character is not instantly recognisable, the brand, the unique world and the game is, just like fallout is known for it's 50's style post apocalyptic setting. Being able to interact with the mass effect world your way really help you immerse into the whole story, for me at least. In my case, set characters are more likely to be hit or miss, if I don't feel attach to the character I'm playing, I won't feel as immerse into the game as I should.

Variety is good.