453 réponses à ce sujet

[yoshibb]

BiggBno wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...
Fact is that a game is designed with certain things because that's how they envision the game.

Yup, and I am asking and suggesting Bioware to envision a different game. Obviously Bioware has made the delibiterate choice to have voiced protagonists of both genders and I think Bioware games can benefit from reconsidering that choice, or trying alternatives. I hope thats clear.

If BioWare follow your advise they are removing one of the main appeal of the characterdriven game as a Genre.
The possibility to choose to play as a Female or Male is one of the things that sets the game apart from Movies and Books where your stuck with what the makers decides. And thats a big NONO in my opinion.

Also, regarding te statistics that some are so fond of stating, wasn't there a rather large number who didnt complete the game?

Yes, 50% did not finish the game.

And I would not have bought Mass Effect 2 without the female option. I can barely get through a male shepard playthrough because it just doesn't register with me in the same way. I play male led games all the time. These are the games I played this year:

Batman Arkham City
Skyrim
Deus Ex
Dead Island
Rage
LA Noire
Assassin's Creed: Revelations
Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Shadows of the Damned
Dragon Age 2

Out of all these games, 3 have choice of gender, and the other 7 games have lead male PCs. Some of these guys I didn't finish cause I just couldn't get into them. Some of these games don't even have strong female characters in them. Games like Brink, based around creating your own character, didn't want to spend the money to put in female PCs, so I didn't spend money on their game. So why is it considered shallow for me want to play as my own gender every once in awhile? To turn down a game because I'm tired of being male? It's a RPG and I want to roleplay as a woman.

[AlanC9]

mjh417 wrote...

I don t know where that 80% stat comes from because often I feel Im one of the only people out there playing not playing as FemShep.

The ME2 tracking data.

Note that it specifically says "players," not "playthroughs." So 80% of all ME players played a male at least once. It doesn't say that nobody in that 80% ever played a FemShep too. Though whoever made up that graphic may have meant that and simply been an imcompetent writer.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2012 - 04:07 .

[Luigitornado]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Samus can't make the list because Square gave her the George Lucas treatment.

What the f- does this even mean?

You mean Team Ninja? And in that case you are still wrong. Sakamoto (a dude who has worked on past Metroid games) is the one who wrote the game's story.

[Luigitornado]

didymos1120 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Samus can't make the list because Square gave her the George Lucas treatment.

It wasn't Square.  And it wasn't Team Ninja either.  They didn't write the story for Other M.  That was Yoshio Sakamoto, who works for Nintendo and has overseen the series since Super Metroid.

*brofist*

[Yuoaman]

AlanC9 wrote...

mjh417 wrote...

I don t know where that 80% stat comes from because often I feel Im one of the only people out there playing not playing as FemShep.

The ME2 tracking data.

Note that it specifically says "players," not "playthroughs." So 80% of all ME players played a male at least once. It doesn't say that nobody in that 80% ever played a FemShep too. Though whoever made up that graphic may have meant that and simply been an imcompetent writer.

FemShep players are also generally more vocal - not that that's a bad thing. I personally prefer MaleShep, but more power to you if you prefer Femshep - different strokes.

[Siegdrifa]

AlanC9 wrote...

mjh417 wrote...

I don t know where that 80% stat comes from because often I feel Im one of the only people out there playing not playing as FemShep.

The ME2 tracking data.

Note that it specifically says "players," not "playthroughs." So 80% of all ME players played a male at least once. It doesn't say that nobody in that 80% ever played a FemShep too. Though whoever made up that graphic may have meant that and simply been an imcompetent writer.

This is how i understand this 80% too, but i could be wrong since it wasn't clearly stated, in that case, even a FemShep player like me (something like 15 finished playthrough with femshep and 0 manshep) would be part of this 80% since i tryed a few time to play with him).

But the first thing i do after i instal any game is checking the option menu to turn off the collecting data, i never play the "average canon way", most defaut choice / option are usualy the basic solide structure, but i never care for the handy iron barre in anyway, i look for the sharp sword, harder to master, somtimes even less deadlier, but lot more impressive and satysfyng for my playstyle, and in this area, ME2 is great.

Also, statistics without context don't have real meaning and could be analysed in 249 innacurate ways, i would prefer write a detailled feed back to explain why / what rather than letting bioware know i made 6 adept, 5 vanguard, 4 infiltrator and 1 sentinel, that i mande all of my around 15 finished playthrough in insanity, no less, that i never skip anydialogue because i love their story telling but i hate their main plot devloppement, withtou real context.

I since i know i'll be a minority i prefer to stay hidden from the statistics and discus / exchange point of view in the BSN instead.
What's matter in the end is that those who play soldier / manshep enjoy it and me enjoying other class / gender that fit better for my playstyle.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 06 février 2012 - 05:10 .

[Unbannable]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That said I strongly feel that giving the player the decision to pick a gender has an overall negative effect on the writing, since Bioware must ALWAYS account for it.

This pretty much.  I have no issue with FemShep, but I think Commander Shepard would have been a much more intriguing character if he/she had been static, rather than open to interpretation.

The most memorable characters are always fixed characters, ie Link, Geralt of Rivia, Lara Croft, Batman etc....  When you always leave a character open to interpretation, it reduces the depth (and so the appeal) of the character because the character's story isn't as personal or focused.

And this goes beyond just gender.

[WizenSlinky0]

Unbannable wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That said I strongly feel that giving the player the decision to pick a gender has an overall negative effect on the writing, since Bioware must ALWAYS account for it.

This pretty much.  I have no issue with FemShep, but I think Commander Shepard would have been a much more intriguing character if he/she had been static, rather than open to interpretation.

The most memorable characters are always fixed characters, ie Link, Geralt of Rivia, Lara Croft, Batman etc....  When you always leave a character open to interpretation, it reduces the depth (and so the appeal) of the character because the character's story isn't as personal or focused.

And this goes beyond just gender.

Not in choice based games. In choice based games the depth is determined by the player.

Its what makes it so emotional and interesting.

[Arkitekt]

Unbannable wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That said I strongly feel that giving the player the decision to pick a gender has an overall negative effect on the writing, since Bioware must ALWAYS account for it.

This pretty much.  I have no issue with FemShep, but I think Commander Shepard would have been a much more intriguing character if he/she had been static, rather than open to interpretation.

The most memorable characters are always fixed characters, ie Link, Geralt of Rivia, Lara Croft, Batman etc....  When you always leave a character open to interpretation, it reduces the depth (and so the appeal) of the character because the character's story isn't as personal or focused.

And this goes beyond just gender.

What is striking is that you don't understand the point of a game like Mass Effect at all.

[Darth Death]

Why do I get the feeling that more male gamers play as femshep than female gamers?

[Unbannable]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Not in choice based games. In choice based games the depth is determined by the player.

Its what makes it so emotional and interesting.

That makes no sense at all, because all games have choices to some extent.  Take a game like the Witcher, where you play as Geralt of Rivia, a decidedly fixed character, yet the game itself is very open to interpretation due to the choices the player makes.

And while Bioware gives it's customers the choice of playing male or female, that doesn't necessarily add more depth to a game because the sex of the character is seldom taken into account in the first place.

Modifié par Unbannable, 06 février 2012 - 05:45 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Of course it was worth it. I am no FemShep fan (or Hale fan) but this is an RPG game and an RPG game needs an option to choose between genders.

[Unbannable]

Arkitekt wrote...

What is striking is that you don't understand the point of a game like Mass Effect at all.

And what is the point? 

[Unbannable]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Of course it was worth it. I am no FemShep fan (or Hale fan) but this is an RPG game and an RPG game needs an option to choose between genders.

As I mentioned above, the sex of the PC rarely impacts the story itself in Bioware's games, so in the end, the ability to determine the gender of your PC becomes superficial, and almost irrelevent.

[tch2296]

One of the most important (probably THE most important) aspects of RPG's is player choice. In Mass Effect, this is obviously true. What makes the game so great is that the player is able to influence the storyline and the events in the game by making choices. So, obviously it's good thing that the developers decided to allow the player to choose which gender they want to play as.

Why would less choice in an RPG be a good thing? I really think this thread is silly but I think the OP got what he wanted considering all the responses. In the future maybe people should think twice about taking the bait and responding to another one of Tetris's troll-threads...

[tetrisblock4x1]

Should let you play as a tranny. Best of both worlds.

[AlanC9]

Siegdrifa wrote...
But the first thing i do after i instal any game is checking the option menu to turn off the collecting data

This only hurts you, you know. 

Also, statistics without context don't have real meaning and could be analysed in 249 innacurate ways, i would prefer write a detailled feed back to explain why / what rather than letting bioware know

Unless they can make every player write those detailed feedbacks, this is not a substitute for automated data collection.

[tch2296]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Should let you play as a tranny. Best of both worlds.

I'm sure you'd enjoy that.

[essarr71]

Unbannable wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Of course it was worth it. I am no FemShep fan (or Hale fan) but this is an RPG game and an RPG game needs an option to choose between genders.

As I mentioned above, the sex of the PC rarely impacts the story itself in Bioware's games, so in the end, the ability to determine the gender of your PC becomes superficial, and almost irrelevent.

That's pretty naive. 

[Bleachrude]

It's interesting because I always think back to Dragon age:Origins.

In no marketing avenue (be it trailer or ads) do we ever see a female warden. Unless you pick up the game, you would not know that playing a female was an option.

Yet, to get all possible endings, you HAVE to play both genders...

EDIT: Um, in DA:O, gender has a HUGE effect on who kills the archdemon...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 06 février 2012 - 05:53 .

[Arkitekt]

Unbannable wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Of course it was worth it. I am no FemShep fan (or Hale fan) but this is an RPG game and an RPG game needs an option to choose between genders.

As I mentioned above, the sex of the PC rarely impacts the story itself in Bioware's games, so in the end, the ability to determine the gender of your PC becomes superficial, and almost irrelevent.

This is not even up for discussion. I do not even have to show you how utterly wrong you are. I merely have to show you how people will disagree vehemently with you on this (given femshep wide appeal and fanbase) to show how wrong you are, since if it wasn't important, such appeal would simply not exist.

The fact that there are other RPGs that do not do such a thing is immaterial. We are discussing Mass Effect, not ****er2.

[trickfred]

My wife's a fledgling gamer, steadily becoming more 'core' over the last 7-8 years, and she cannot really get into a game, especially any kind of RPG, if she is pigeonholed into playing a male character. Discussion of idiosyncrasies aside, the fact is, having a female gender option has resulted in 2 ME2 CE sales and 2 ME3 CE preorders instead of one standard edition sale of each in our case.

Recently, after asking me several questions about Skyrim (she's never played a Bethesda game, and I wasn't initially interested in it), the final question that sealed our purchase was indeed, "Can I play as a woman?" Publishers that are looking to court women as customers more often, here's step one, and it's a very easy one.

Imagine how cool the Batman games (both AA and AC) would be if you could play through as Batwoman (or Batgirl) with a bit of unique dialog geared to her? I'll bet my wife would have played it, and many more women as well.

[Unbannable]

essarr71 wrote...

That's pretty naive. 

Oh great come back..  

[WizenSlinky0]

Unbannable wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Not in choice based games. In choice based games the depth is determined by the player.

Its what makes it so emotional and interesting.

That makes no sense at all, because all games have choices to some extent.  Take a game like the Witcher, where you play as Geralt of Rivia, a decidedly fixed character, yet the game itself is very open to interpretation due to the choices the player makes.

And while Bioware gives it's customers the choice of playing male or female, that doesn't necessarily add more depth to a game because the sex of the character is seldom taken into account in the first place.

Uh...all games have choices to some extent? A.) The extent matters a lot, and B.) Um, no they don't.

I found witcher relatively unlikable simply because he was so fixed. You risk turning people off completely to the character in role-playing games if you define them too much. It can be a calculated risk, but it's still a risk.

The gender is taken into account when players invest themselves in a character. You're ignoring human investment completely, which is kinda a big deal.

[Bleachrude]

Unbannable wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

That's pretty naive. 

Oh great come back..  

You did wrongly point out that Bioware games don't depend on gender...Kind of hard to deny that DA:O didn't depend on gender..