329 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

_symphony wrote...
 We always see the same ship every time, and even in the collector base there's only one defending it. Even if they have more than one ship, obviously they don't have the numbers to attack the better defended colonies in Citadel space or Earth itself.

Oh, yeah, that I agree with. They don't have the force to attack a defended colony -- the Horizon attack would have failed outright if the defense towers had been working. While Shepard believes that the Collectors are going to attack Earth, they have to finish the human Reaper first to be able to do that. So the ship we see has a lot of excess capacity beyond what they need at the moment we see it.

Then again, the Collector ship was probably built for harvesting humans after Sovereign brought about the invasion, and Harbinger's whole plan is an improvisation.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2012 - 05:38 .

[Nobezy]

Mesina2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Because Sovereign actually accomplished things.

Didn't he failed in ME1?

Or Dietz is actually right.

It still actually got within minutes of opening the Conduit.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Sovereign = less smack talk.

In short Sovereign embodies the traditional evil antagonist he only speaks when he as something important to say, he means what he says, and he's not going to reveal his master plan 10 seconds before you kill him. Sovereign is so tight lipped he probably won't even tell you his plan after he's received a mortal wound.

Harbi on the other hand is the king of smack he talks alot and has nothing to back it up. He seems like the type to spill the beans once we meet him rather then recognize we're an unpredictable enemy that shouldn't be told anything we can't hack or link shep's brain into when it comes to their ultimate plans. Shep should have to dig, search, and steal the info not having it handed to him by the antagonist.

New Harbi in arrival seems to be getting better and he actually carried out a threat so we'll see if he starts looking at Sovereign's play book and start applying the nemesis 101 in 3.

[AgitatedLemon]

I can think of a number of reasons off the top of my head.

1. The Reapers were new in ME1, so they had the mystique.

2. Sovereign had more "personality" than Harbinger. He made his presence known from the get-go. Harbinger just possesses Collectors.

3. Some people like him just because of his voice, which I can understand (Even if it's superficial)

[Bleachrude]

 It's interesting that people consider Sovereign superior even though we can kill it whereas we never touch Harbinger...

Personally, I think most of Sovereign's appeal comes from the reveal...We didnt know Saren's ship WAS a reaper until ilos so that reveal was  a big surprise...

Harbinger would intrinsically be seen as lesser...

[Epsilon330]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Correction, EDI compares the profile to the one recorded by the original Normandy, everything but outright stating it is the only knows profile to compare to. 

This is totally wrong. I'm actually in the middle of the Collector Ship mission so I have a save handy, and EDI specifically says that she has "compared the ship's EM signature to known Collector profiles."

:genuine confusion/inquiry: Huh, doesn't it follow up with a part that states "recorded by the original Normandy" (paraphrased)?

If I am indeed wrong with my statement, I accept correction happily, but I think I remember it was stated as such. Please clarify for me, thank you.


P.S.:
We really should introduce elcor speak to the forums for situation like these.

Heartily: Agreed.
Annoyed: Damn, now I keep hearing Elcor read out this post

[Destroy Raiden_]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Correction, EDI compares the profile to the one recorded by the original Normandy, everything but outright stating it is the only knows profile to compare to. 

This is totally wrong. I'm actually in the middle of the Collector Ship mission so I have a save handy, and EDI specifically says that she has "compared the ship's EM signature to known Collector profiles."

:genuine confusion/inquiry: Huh, doesn't it follow up with a part that states "recorded by the original Normandy" (paraphrased)?

If I am indeed wrong with my statement, I accept correction happily, but I think I remember it was stated as such. Please clarify for me, thank you.


P.S.:
We really should introduce elcor speak to the forums for situation like these.

EDI is part Sovereign shouldn't she have in her data already reaper ship signatures?

[Someone With Mass]

Mesina2 wrote...

They were probably testing do humans actually work as a Reaper.

Plus, they never believed anyone would get passed Omega 4 Relay.

Hell, I don't think they knew Cerberus could bring back Shepard from death.


I think Harby was just unlucky with that.

I don't think they'd need to kidnap thousands of people to confirm that.

Had the Collectors just laid low, they could have helped more during the invasion.

[a load of stanton]

sov sucks harby ruels

[a load of stanton]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I can think of a number of reasons off the top of my head.

1. The Reapers were new in ME1, so they had the mystique.

2. Sovereign had more "personality" than Harbinger. He made his presence known from the get-go. Harbinger just possesses Collectors.

3. Some people like him just because of his voice, which I can understand (Even if it's superficial)

because harby is not there

[AlanC9]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
This is totally wrong. I'm actually in the middle of the Collector Ship mission so I have a save handy, and EDI specifically says that she has "compared the ship's EM signature to known Collector profiles."

:genuine confusion/inquiry: Huh, doesn't it follow up with a part that states "recorded by the original Normandy" (paraphrased)?

If I am indeed wrong with my statement, I accept correction happily, but I think I remember it was stated as such. Please clarify for me, thank you.

Confident: No. You are confusing two different conversations. At the beginning of the mission EDI compares this ship to known Collector profiles and determines that it is the ship which attacked Horizon. Later, Joker asks EDI to compare this ship to the original Normandy's records, which proves that this is also the ship which attacked the SR-1.

Synpathetic: hey -- it's a big game, and it's hard to remember every single convo accurately.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2012 - 05:44 .

[Sailears]

There's only one thing that really makes the difference - the voice.

Sovereign comes across as cold, alien, unknowable. Harbinger sounds like a pantomime villain.

I don't like to bash the hard work that went into it, but Harbinger is a joke because of its dialogue and the sound for its voice. I hope BW have any reaper dialogue sound more like Sovereign in ME3.

[Yuoaman]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Correction, EDI compares the profile to the one recorded by the original Normandy, everything but outright stating it is the only knows profile to compare to. 

This is totally wrong. I'm actually in the middle of the Collector Ship mission so I have a save handy, and EDI specifically says that she has "compared the ship's EM signature to known Collector profiles."

:genuine confusion/inquiry: Huh, doesn't it follow up with a part that states "recorded by the original Normandy" (paraphrased)?

If I am indeed wrong with my statement, I accept correction happily, but I think I remember it was stated as such. Please clarify for me, thank you.


P.S.:
We really should introduce elcor speak to the forums for situation like these.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it was comparing to the different profiles collected during the original attack.

[ODST 5723]

Mac Walters stated on twitter on 12/1/11 that the Collectors had more than one ship.

[AgitatedLemon]

a load of stanton wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

I can think of a number of reasons off the top of my head.

1. The Reapers were new in ME1, so they had the mystique.

2. Sovereign had more "personality" than Harbinger. He made his presence known from the get-go. Harbinger just possesses Collectors.

3. Some people like him just because of his voice, which I can understand (Even if it's superficial)

because harby is not there

I know.

That was the point 

[Aimi]

AlanC9 wrote...

Confident: No. You are confusing two different conversations. At the beginning of the mission EDI compares this ship to known Collector profiles and determines that it is the ship which attacked Horizon. Later, Joker asks EDI to compare this ship to the original Normandy's records, which proves that this is also the ship that attacked the SR-1.

Synpathetic: hey -- it's a big game, and it's hard to remember every single convo accurately.

See, I argued that in another thread and Dean suggested that the writing was just off. I thought I was on to something. 

Didn't notice that tweet, though. That's as proofy as it gets.

Modifié par daqs, 06 février 2012 - 05:45 .

[AlanC9]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Mac Walters stated on twitter on 12/1/11 that the Collectors had more than one ship.

Yeah -- a lot of people were getting this wrong, which I guess is why he had to set the record straight.

[Someone With Mass]

Harbinger sounds like someone who played way too much with the after effects. You can even hear him breathe, for God's sake.

[JoeLaTurkey]

Dat voice.

Also; Sovereign had some amazing lines, Harbinger reminds me of a wise-cracking action movie bad guy

[KnightofPhoenix]

Both of them are ridiculous, as is the whole concept of reapers.

But one was menacing and the other was funny. The latter is more ridiculous than the former.

[Talon_Wu]

ME1: GOGOGOGOGO!!!!!! / ENEMIES EVERYWHERE!!111!
ME2: This hurts you / I know you feel this / Assuming direct control™
Shepard: Oh, shut up already. *headshot*

I have more respect for Sovereign because, as others have said, he was the looming, unseen threat. The shadow you see out of the corner of your eye is usually more terrifying than a villain who spends his time taunting you, and twirling his moustache. Harbinger would have been much better without the incessant taunting. A shriek from the possessed collector to announce he'd arrived, perhaps, then silence. Also, not assuming control umpteen times per battle, or even every battle, but randomized.

[Darth Death]

"We impose order on the chaos of organic life. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it."-Sovereign

nuff said

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Honest question, have my own opinion but will withhold it.

Mostly it boils down to the fact that Harby doesn't do much other than talk, while Sov actually did stuff and for the most part rocked when *he* did said stuff. The only 'real' interaction we were given with Sov came in the form of cutscenes and a single short dialogue, meaning Sov could be awesome, mysterious and do whatever without us being able to do anything about it.

OTOH, Harby actually appears as an actual enemy unit in the form of the "Collector General". This was seen as a bad judgement call by BW, as it pretty much meant that we, for gameplay reasons, had to repeatedly outwit and humiliate Harby throughout the game. While it might've been possible to handwave this fact storywise, psychologically, it meant that we, the players, were conditioned to basically have no fear of Harby at all. Basically, Harby will never live down his "Useless Troll" stigma, because an ageless techno-cthluthu just ain't very scary anymore when he repeatedly loses to some male model (Sheploo) in fisticuffs.

Sov was built up as an ageless horror from beyond the stars. Harby's like the really really smashed drunk guy at the bar who keeps coming back to the fight even though he's been knocked out 100 times.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 06 février 2012 - 06:02 .