10 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

I posted this in the Registered Owners section without much response, so I figured I'd give it a shot here...


Given all the discussions about DA3, I decided to go with a nitty gritty question.

The
Tactics screen in both DAO and DA2 is something I delve into at first
opportunity. The options it gives you are really deep and could, if
configured correctly, let you stay on one character (even if it isn't
your Hawke) duirng all of combat, if you liked.

However... there
is a huge problem. The Tactics pre-genreated Builds can't be modified.
Well, they CAN... but then they become the Custom Build. I can't modify a
Mage Healer build to chug a mana potion when they get below 25% wihtout
resorting a Custom build. And, while the pre-set builds adjust
themselves automatically when you get new skills or abilities, the
Custom one is static.

So to have my characters be able to drink a
potion in their Tactics, I need to set up a Custom setup for each and
every one of them. Then, when any and all of my characters level up,
I need to go in and manually updated their Tactics with their new
skills.

It seems like an insane amount of micromanagement just
to have a potion ability. Why not let us modify the pre-set Builds, but
still have them retain the ability to automatically add/input new
Tactics when we level up? Or why not add a Potion drinking Tactic to
every pre-set build, but set all of them at 0% at default?

To
lose all the structure and helpfulness of the pre-set builds when you
want to tweak just one tiny portion is asinine and makes it so that
combat either has to be micromanaged all the time, the Tactics screen
has to be micromanaged all the time or you turn down the difficulty.
None of which is particularly fun, in my book.



Any suggestions/requests for the Tactics mechanics for DA3 that can address this, or any other Tactics issues?

[HolyAvenger]

One thing I would really like is for multiple conditions to set off an ability. Like enemies are clustered + staggered then use Fist of the Maker.

[frustratemyself]

HolyAvenger wrote...

One thing I would really like is for multiple conditions to set off an ability... 

Use current condition for next tactic.

[Fast Jimmy]

I think HolyAvenger wishes there was an option that wouldn't require two separate tactics slots. The more custom work involved to set up or change a particular ability just makes it even less likely new players or people just wanting to experiment will be intimidated and not mess with the Tactics screen. Which means strategy in combat will be nerfed even more in future games.

[frustratemyself]

The default tactics sets are fairly basic though. Once you spend some time with the game there are some things from the default lists that you either don't want/need to use at all or want to change.
Use the default ones as a guide then play around to see what else you can do with it.

[HolyAvenger]

Yes I meant in one tactic slot rather than multiple ones.

[mr_afk]

well.. on xbox you can drag tactics around, so altering a preset shouldn't be too hard. i.e. switch to preset, drag an empty tactic from bottom to top - insert self:health < 25% = use:health potion - and voila!

i'm not completely sure how it works on other platforms, but they probably have it easier. programming tactics on xbox is a pain - spent way too long constantly scrolling down to select 'use current condition for next tactic'.
On that note, i wish maker's sighs didn't automatically reset tactics. Oh well.

Anyway, as frustratemyself said, the preset tactics kinda suck. once you get the hang of how the tactics work, using your own setup allows much greater party synergy, especially in terms of CCCs. I would recommend using the tactics from the guides on these forums as a starting point rather than the presets..
They lack things like
enemy:elite or higher = use current condition for next tactic
enemy:STATUS (brittle/stagger/disorient) = use CCC
which allow your party to deal a lot more damage. In fact, if i remember rightly, the logic behind some of the default tactics is a little iffy.


So anyway, I don't think the ability to alter presets is a major issue.
What I do think however, is that they should create a less clunky system which allows conditions to be linked in a more intuitive manner, and maybe a guide/explanation to how it works.

Kinda like what holyavenger is getting at, currently certain conditions can't be linked (e.g. clustered + status doesn't work), and there is a lot of tweaking to avoid wasting abilities, e.g. staggering enemies which are already staggered.
Even the ability to link more than two conditions would allow tactics to specify 'elite enemies which are not staggered' and reduce the need for tactics to be optimised (jump to...).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

However... there is a huge problem. The Tactics pre-genreated Builds can't be modified.  Well, they CAN... but then they become the Custom Build. I can't modify a Mage Healer build to chug a mana potion when they get  below 25% wihtout resorting a Custom build. And, while the pre-set builds adjust themselves automatically when you get new skills or abilities, the Custom one is static.

Of course.  I would hate to have the game modify my tactics without asking me.  That's the whole point of setting them myself.

And how would you design the system to modify any possible setup of your automatically and have it make sense?  That would be a nightmare to code.

Personally, I like the micromanagement.  I tend to play all of the characters anyway, so they're not firing abilities using tactics anyway, but I do use the tactics screen to activate and deactivate sustained abilities, and the DA2 tactics system works brilliantly for that.

To lose all the structure and helpfulness of the pre-set builds when you want to tweak just one tiny portion is asinine and makes it so that combat either has to be micromanaged all the time, the Tactics screen has to be micromanaged all the time or you turn down the difficulty.  None of which is particularly fun, in my book.

I understand your frustration, but I can't imagine how to write the code to make such a thing happen.

[Wulfram]

Really, health potion drinking should be included by default in all the pre-generated tactics. I'd think it would make the game much more accessible for new users, and those who simply don't want to mess with the tactics too much.

Related, it would be nice if we could make some more generalised rules in the tactics. If all I want to do is to get the character to cast their area of effect talents on clustered enemies, or their single target talents on whoever Hawke is attacking, I shouldn't have to do every single one individually.

[frustratemyself]

mr_afk wrote...

well.. on xbox you can drag tactics around, so altering a preset shouldn't be too hard. i.e. switch to preset, drag an empty tactic from bottom to top - insert self:health < 25% = use:health potion - and voila!

It's the same on pc, I would presume for ps3 as well.

[SuicidalBaby]

I cant imagine the level of frustration I'm going to have in DA3 figuring out the changes they are going to make to the tactics system so I can answer all the questions, again.