258 réponses à ce sujet

[ncknck]

AgitatedLemon
Except for the "play their games well" part your post is correct, im not sure why are you directing it at me, i do not remember disputing gamepads being a not viable way to play.

[Hunter of Legends]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

OP...not sure if you played me2, but its gonna be more like that. I think the destination was found then. There is no route me3 is taking in terms of whatever it is you define as "twitchy shooter"

it is what it is in terms of game play.

PC gamers are smarter than console gamers
also, those who like twitchy shooters are dumber than tactic players
etc etc etc etc etc etc

@bold-

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

Don't know about dumber, but consoles are more of an easy access gaming platform. They choose to play on console because they're interested in just getting a quick fix of gaming, and aren't into all of the customization, or learning about optimal builds, maintainence and stuff like that. 


@HTTP: there is a certain twitch shooter called Quake Arena, and it is arguably among the most tactical FPS games on the market.

Still not entirely true.

I game on consoles because I don't have a disposable income. Plus there are games that are console exclusive that I really enjoy (Like I said earlier, Gears of War, Halo, God of War, etc)

I can get by with a handful of games on my PC (Namely, I play TF2 all the time, pre F2P).

I know we aren't all the same, but my point is that if someone is passionate enough to do research and learn how things work and to build their own PC as many gamers do that they're more likely to get into games which require learning and critical thinking. This actualy explains why thereis a really huge petition for the console game Dark Souls to be ported to PC. And I think that this petition was actually popular enough to make the developers consider PC as a viable platform to port their games to.

Finally making sense!

I agree with this but I haven't learned to build a PC(much cheaper than what I did) and I thoroughly enjoy deep, critically thinking games.

[AgitatedLemon]

ncknck wrote...

AgitatedLemon
Except for the "play their games well" part your post is correct, im not sure why are you directing it at me, i do not remember disputing gamepads being a not viable way to play.

Go watch an old video of GoldGlove on youtube on Gears of War and tell me Average Joe first-time-player can do just as well or better.

And you explicitly said "You could probably play shooters on a racing wheel and get better results than a pad".

[brfritos]

SNascimento wrote...

If you are bad at shooting things, you are going to struggle with ME3 (as you probably did with ME2), especially in harder difficulties.
.
Sometimes I think this is one of the reasons some people didn't enjoy ME2 combat so much, they didn't had the shooting skills to play it.

Oh, that's not true, man.

I miss one thing from the combat mechanics of ME1: you and your enemies have the same chance of killing each other and can have the same equipment.
In ME2 Bioware goes the same route of every other shooter, the player is weak and the enemies are strong.

But the combat in ME2 is more fluid, no arguing on that.

For those asking about inventory system, try playing ME1 on PC.
Now, that's an inventory system!
Actually it shows the diferences of consoles and PCs and I'm not talking about whom is better, PC interface's works different than consoles.

The console version:


The PC version:


I hope that in ME3 at least I have double click and can bind keys to every function in the game as I wish.

Modifié par brfritos, 08 février 2012 - 02:47 .

[mereck7980]

@ncknck Why do you feel the need to keep pushing your opinion that M/K is an infinitely better input device than a gamepad? You have made your disdain for controllers very clear. Lemon didn't state one was better than the other, only that he likes M/K for some games and a gamepad for others.

There is no need keep rehashing the subject...

As to the OP original point, I don't think ME3 is going to be "twitchy". BW has simply refined the combat mechanics to make them more fluid and a little more fast paced in the "RPG and Action" modes. If you find the gameplay is not enjoyable in this format play the game in "Story" mode. Since none of us have actually played the game yet we should probably reserve our judgement on the "twitchiness" of the title.

[mereck7980]

brfritos wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

If you are bad at shooting things, you are going to struggle with ME3 (as you probably did with ME2), especially in harder difficulties.
.
Sometimes I think this is one of the reasons some people didn't enjoy ME2 combat so much, they didn't had the shooting skills to play it.

Oh, that's not true, man.

I miss one thing from the combat mechanics of ME1: you and your enemies have the same chance of killing each other and can have the same equipment.
In ME2 Bioware goes the same route of every other shooter, the player is weak and the enemies are strong.

But the combat in ME2 is more fluid, no arguing on that.

For those asking about inventory system, try playing ME1 on PC.
Now, that's an inventory system!
Actually it shows the diferences of consoles and PCs and I'm not talking about whom is better, PC interface's works different than consoles.

The console version:


The PC version:


I hope that in ME3 at least I have double click and can bind keys to every function in the game as I wish.

Keep in mind that the PC port of ME1 was released several months after the initial launch of the game on the 360.  The dev team had time to tweak the interface so that it was both optimized for M/K and so that its overall appearance and functionality was improved.  

[AgitatedLemon]

mereck7980 wrote...

@ncknck Why do you feel the need to keep pushing your opinion that M/K is an infinitely better input device than a gamepad? You have made your disdain for controllers very clear. Lemon didn't state one was better than the other, only that he likes M/K for some games and a gamepad for others.

There is no need keep rehashing the subject...

As to the OP original point, I don't think ME3 is going to be "twitchy". BW has simply refined the combat mechanics to make them more fluid and a little more fast paced in the "RPG and Action" modes. If you find the gameplay is not enjoyable in this format play the game in "Story" mode. Since none of us have actually played the game yet we should probably reserve our judgement on the "twitchiness" of the title.

@final paragraph-

Fully agree. The premature accusations are both unnecessary and getting old very quickly.

[Xerxes52]

Xzeto wrote...

I like to have fun playing my games. I can't stand shooters because I'm just don't have the patience or the finger speed to play them. It looks to me like that where ME3 is going - to a twichy, itchy, gotta be a good shooter person to play. Any ideas? 

I'm gonna go with "no", it's not going to be a twitch shooter.

But there is Narrative difficulty, which is easier than casual.

[Gatt9]

mereck7980 wrote...

@ncknck Why do you feel the need to keep pushing your opinion that M/K is an infinitely better input device than a gamepad? You have made your disdain for controllers very clear. Lemon didn't state one was better than the other, only that he likes M/K for some games and a gamepad for others.

There is no need keep rehashing the subject...

As to the OP original point, I don't think ME3 is going to be "twitchy". BW has simply refined the combat mechanics to make them more fluid and a little more fast paced in the "RPG and Action" modes. If you find the gameplay is not enjoyable in this format play the game in "Story" mode. Since none of us have actually played the game yet we should probably reserve our judgement on the "twitchiness" of the title.

I think the fact that there's an "Action" mode in an RPG,  that removes all of the RPG elements so that people who hate RPGs can play the game,  is confirmation of the OP's fears.

This is the equivalent of making a seperate version of Saw,  that stars Jim Carey and no one gets hurt,  so you can sell tickets to people who hate Horror movies.

Focus on doing one thing right,  don't try to be everything to everyone.  Great games aren't made by trying to be everything to everyone.

[AgitatedLemon]

When did they say Action mode removes the RPG elements?

All I've seen is that it automates the dialogue.

[mereck7980]

@Gatt9 All you have to do is pretend there is no "Action" mode and play the game in "RPG" mode and all the promised RPG elements will be there for you to enjoy. I am not going to play the game in "Action" or "Story" modes because I think the ME games are the best RPG franchise of this hardware generation.

As I stated before, none of us has played this game yet. We have no idea how any new elements will add or detract from the overall gameplay experience. All I am saying is wait until you have played the game to form your opinion. All we are doing now is speculating.

[brfritos]

mereck7980 wrote...

Keep in mind that the PC port of ME1 was released several months after the initial launch of the game on the 360.  The dev team had time to tweak the interface so that it was both optimized for M/K and so that its overall appearance and functionality was improved.  

I'm aware of that, ME1 for PC came almost a year later than XBox version, but it would be good it the interface were tweaked for the PC.

I don't see how the inventory system of the PC version could work on consoles, because you have too many point and clik options.

The point is, the PC interface should get a little more attention, a simple port leaves something to be desired most of the time.
The same thing can be said vice-versa, few games ported directly from the PC to consoles actually work without changing heavelly the interface.

What baffles me is that every console has a USB port, so why in hell they don't allow a mouse and a keyboard to be connected for playing a game?
You could have RTS games much easier on consoles that way.

[Hunter of Legends]

Gatt9 wrote...

Focus on doing one thing right,  don't try to be everything to everyone.  Great games aren't made by trying to be everything to everyone.

Halo and Starcraft would like to have a word with you.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Don't know about Halo, but Starcrafts design philosophy was based entirely on competitive gaming, and they just kind of wrote the story and made the missions based on the units. Wings of Liberty on the other hand had a lot of extra single player exclusive units and features.

[Hunter of Legends]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Don't know about Halo, but Starcrafts design philosophy was based entirely on competitive gaming, and they just kind of wrote the story and made the missions based on the units. Wings of Liberty on the other hand had a lot of extra single player exclusive units and features.

It also gained a MASSIVE casual crowd who have added a bunch of different types of gametypes and gamestyles.

So in fact it's not that hard to try and please everyone and the existence of an "action mode" doesn't support the fact that ME3 will be bad/inferior RPG.

Just like the fact that DA2 was designed by a different crew still means ME3 will be bad/might be bad which is just plain wrong.

[AgitatedLemon]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Don't know about Halo, but Starcrafts design philosophy was based entirely on competitive gaming, and they just kind of wrote the story and made the missions based on the units. Wings of Liberty on the other hand had a lot of extra single player exclusive units and features.

It also gained a MASSIVE casual crowd who have added a bunch of different types of gametypes and gamestyles.

So in fact it's not that hard to try and please everyone and the existence of an "action mode" doesn't support the fact that ME3 will be bad/inferior RPG.

Just like the fact that DA2 was designed by a different crew still means ME3 will be bad/might be bad which is just plain wrong.

This... Has nothing to do with what TB just said.

[Hunter of Legends]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Don't know about Halo, but Starcrafts design philosophy was based entirely on competitive gaming, and they just kind of wrote the story and made the missions based on the units. Wings of Liberty on the other hand had a lot of extra single player exclusive units and features.

It also gained a MASSIVE casual crowd who have added a bunch of different types of gametypes and gamestyles.

So in fact it's not that hard to try and please everyone and the existence of an "action mode" doesn't support the fact that ME3 will be bad/inferior RPG.

Just like the fact that DA2 was designed by a different crew still means ME3 will be bad/might be bad which is just plain wrong.

This... Has nothing to do with what TB just said.

He was responding to what I said to Gatt9.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Some of the best games of my life were based around modding like Neverwinter Nights so I think it sucks that mod support is so often slim to none. At least I can be glad that some clever people people find a way to mod some games, even in cases like BGII where it was never intended to support mods.

[tetrisblock4x1]

I have a feeling that whatever data Bioware collect from RPG mode, action and casual is a Bioware experiement. I think that people are afraid that action mode winning by a large majority (like if it's a ratio of 6 action to 2 casual and 2 RPG) might change Bioware as BSN knows them.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 08 février 2012 - 10:06 .

[AlanC9]

Gatt9 wrote...
I think the fact that there's an "Action" mode in an RPG,  that removes all of the RPG elements so that people who hate RPGs can play the game,  is confirmation of the OP's fears.

This is the equivalent of making a seperate version of Saw,  that stars Jim Carey and no one gets hurt,  so you can sell tickets to people who hate Horror movies.

This analogy needs a little work. It doesn't actually give a reason why the Saw fans should care that the alternate version exists.

[JimboP2050]

Gatt9 wrote...

mereck7980 wrote...

@ncknck Why do you feel the need to keep pushing your opinion that M/K is an infinitely better input device than a gamepad? You have made your disdain for controllers very clear. Lemon didn't state one was better than the other, only that he likes M/K for some games and a gamepad for others.

There is no need keep rehashing the subject...

As to the OP original point, I don't think ME3 is going to be "twitchy". BW has simply refined the combat mechanics to make them more fluid and a little more fast paced in the "RPG and Action" modes. If you find the gameplay is not enjoyable in this format play the game in "Story" mode. Since none of us have actually played the game yet we should probably reserve our judgement on the "twitchiness" of the title.

I think the fact that there's an "Action" mode in an RPG,  that removes all of the RPG elements so that people who hate RPGs can play the game,  is confirmation of the OP's fears.

This is the equivalent of making a seperate version of Saw,  that stars Jim Carey and no one gets hurt,  so you can sell tickets to people who hate Horror movies.

Focus on doing one thing right,  don't try to be everything to everyone.  Great games aren't made by trying to be everything to everyone.

I think people read too far into it. I guess I don't post threads like the op because I don't let thoughts like this even enter my thought process. I've played both Mass Effect games, and loved them both. All this "Action mode" thing does is automate responses so that you don't have to make a choice on dialogue, and ramp up difficulty on combat (which is a popular thing to do, look at all the "insanity guides" on the BSN). Even if it cut certain points out, that just sucks for the action mode players I guess.

People always complain about taking out RPG elements, but even the elements themselves are considered opinion by definition. Modern RPG's by definition are games where you assume a character role in a fictional/fantasy setting. If you want to extend that...they typically have a story in which you can change the outcome via dialogue choices/decision making/acting etc. Sounds like Mass Effect in a nutshell to me. Action mode could go against the definition, but they aren't putting a gun to your head and telling you to play that way, thats what the other modes are there for. YOU have the choice.

I'm not trying to troll or be a dick, I just don't see the point in doing the whole "omgactionmodetwitchshooter" response. If it's something that worries you, wait for the demo 

[Hunter of Legends]

jreezy wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
I think the fact that there's an "Action" mode in an RPG,  that removes all of the RPG elements so that people who hate RPGs can play the game,  is confirmation of the OP's fears.

This is the equivalent of making a seperate version of Saw,  that stars Jim Carey and no one gets hurt,  so you can sell tickets to people who hate Horror movies.

This analogy needs a little work. It doesn't actually give a reason why the Saw fans should care that the alternate version exists.

That's the problem with arguments like that. If the usual Mass Effect fans can still get the same game they have always enjoyed regardless of other options that change the way the game is played there really shouldn't be much of an issue.

That was my point.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Halo and Starcraft would like to have a word with you.

Both games I dislike.