258 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

wrdnshprd wrote...

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

so yes, CURRENTLY, i no longer classify mass effect an rpg.. however, based on what ive seen so far for ME3, im hopeful that label can return.. we shall see.

again, ANY genre can have dialogue choices and a good story.  doesnt matter if you are COD, twisted metal, street fighter, etc..

if the above games added story and dialogue choice:

COD would still be a pure shooter
twisted metal would still be a combat racing game
street fighter would still be, well, a fighting game.

There is much fail in this post.

Too much even for the BSN.

[Hunter of Legends]

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

The ONLY way a game can be a GOOD RPG is if it has needless horible inventory screens and pointless stat customization like BREATHING.

[AgitatedLemon]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

The ONLY way a game can be a GOOD RPG is if it has needless horible inventory screens and pointless stat customization like BREATHING.

Reminds me of the body fat and lung capacity stats of GTA:SA.

*Snaps fingers* I get it now! GTA is an RPG!

[tetrisblock4x1]

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

Then you don't like RPGs because stat interaction has always defined it. Don't  try and make the genre into something that it has never been. It's very disrespectful.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 06 février 2012 - 07:20 .

[ediskrad327]

Nexis7 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

breyant wrote...

Well it's not a FPS, so I think it's safe to say, no.

[essarr71]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Then you don't like RPGs because stat interaction has always defined it. Don't  try and make the genre into something that it has never been.

Don't try to keep forcing a tired forumula down an RPGs throat.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Why can't you just leave it alone? It's already got it's own established niche in gaming, go away. Play call of duty or something if you dislike statistics so much, I hear it has little to none of that.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 06 février 2012 - 07:24 .

[King Minos]

To me, an RPG has loads of customisation (I'm a sucker for it), an amazing story, choices that can change the story itself (think Witcher), realistic characters and universe, alot of dialogue options and many many places to travel and explore each with a differen't atmosphere, characters etc etc.

So far from what i read, Bioware has failed on the story, dialogue options have failed (pick blue or red, i prefer Dragon Age Origins dialogue) and choices seem to have failed (Rachni come to mind).

[Hunter of Legends]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

Then you don't like RPGs because stat interaction has always defined it. Don't  try and make the genre into something that it has never been. It's very disrespectful.

That has never been the main facet of RPG. Yiou role play...role play means make choices and act out a role; not sit there and tediously cycle through lists of weapons and learn to breath.

That's like saying the main focus of RTS is how good the graphics are.

[AgitatedLemon]

King Minos wrote...

To me, an RPG has loads of customisation (I'm a sucker for it), an amazing story, choices that can change the story itself (think Witcher), realistic characters and universe, alot of dialogue options and many many places to travel and explore each with a differen't atmosphere, characters etc etc.

So far from what i read, Bioware has failed on the story, dialogue options have failed (pick blue or red, i prefer Dragon Age Origins dialogue) and choices seem to have failed (Rachni come to mind).

In what ways have they "failed" anything?

[Hunter of Legends]

King Minos wrote...



So far from what i read, Bioware has failed on the story, dialogue options have failed (pick blue or red, i prefer Dragon Age Origins dialogue) and choices seem to have failed (Rachni come to mind).

I disagree with all of this. The story is fine, a bit more favoritive to Paragons but renegades still get in on the action. If you view this through all the characters actions the story makes perfect/near perfect sense. The choice system is fine but I will agree it was oversold.

Your choices still matter and still impact the story/universe. They GREATLY effect how Shepard is portrayed and what type of "hero" he is.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

Then you don't like RPGs because stat interaction has always defined it. Don't  try and make the genre into something that it has never been. It's very disrespectful.

That has never been the main facet of RPG. Yiou role play...role play means make choices and act out a role; not sit there and tediously cycle through lists of weapons and learn to breath.

That's like saying the main focus of RTS is how good the graphics are.

I want to be a stealth specialist so I learn to hide, and move quitely.

I want to beat people up, so I take points in hand to hand fighting.

I want to shoot people, so I spend points on the gun skill

I don't have enough points for all of the above, so I have to choose one set of skills that define my character and how I play.

Roleplaying.

You can choose to betray your friend in Jedi Academy, nobody calls that a role playing game.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 06 février 2012 - 07:28 .

[Arkitekt]

Oh look people can't get over the fact that game genres evolve and develop according to gaming populations and technology developments...

Funny to see people cling to terminologies from the eighties....

Modifié par Arkitekt, 06 février 2012 - 07:29 .

[Sidney]

wrdnshprd wrote...

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

ME2 had skill leveling. The fact that there are 4 jumps rather than what 30 is that a magical threshold you must have? There is no real trade off honestly in either game once you approach the level cap you get everything which makes both game much weaker than something like DAO where you made tradeoffs.

The inventory was really not that different other than the not suck part. You still loot safes and crates and computers and crap in ME2. You still upgrade your guns it is just that instead of picking up 6 different guns with a V you upgrade all your guns to level 5. The logic of the process is the same the interface isn't.

People apparently are appalling bad at understanding underlying game mechanics and unless the mechanic slaps them in the face over and over and over

[Arkitekt]

... all the more hilarious when you remember Bioware stating that they couldn't care less if people don't think of Mass Effect as RPGs, as what matters to them are good gameplay mechanics, good story and immersion, etc.

[Hunter of Legends]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

Then you don't like RPGs because stat interaction has always defined it. Don't  try and make the genre into something that it has never been. It's very disrespectful.

That has never been the main facet of RPG. Yiou role play...role play means make choices and act out a role; not sit there and tediously cycle through lists of weapons and learn to breath.

That's like saying the main focus of RTS is how good the graphics are.

I want to be a stealth specialist so I learn to hide, and move quitely.

I want to beat people up, so I take points in hand to hand fighting.

I want to shoot people, so I spend points on the gun skill

I don't have enough points for all of the above, so I have to choose one set of skills that define my character and how I play.

Roleplaying.

You can choose to betray your friend in Jedi Academy, nobody calls that a role playing game.

And Mass Effect still does that.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Well the eighties RPGs are kind of the exact opposite of Call of Duty, so you'll have to forgive me if I laugh at the irony of those terminologies been shunned by the same people who hate that Bioware is "appealing to the CoD crowd.

[IndustrializedTaco]

No you don't have to worry because it is a TPS. In all seriousness though I don't think so, they seem to putting tons of work for the gameplay to integrate with the story. Taking the MGS 4 route.

[Hunter of Legends]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

shunned by the same people who hate that Bioware is "appealing to the CoD crowd.

Anyone who says this is and idiot.

If they were, ME3 would be an FPS with MASSIVE plot holes, no customization and crappy multiplayer.

And they'd release one every year.

[wrdnshprd]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

jreezy wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

to the OPs defense.. mass effect IS a shooter.. just because its in the third person view, doesnt make it any less of one.

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.

at least with ME1, we could customize our squad fairly in depth.. yes, if you played the game a billion times and got everyone to level cap, the customization got a little lacking. but if you started the game at level 1, there were tons of choices to be made.

It's funny when someone says Mass Effect 2 wasn't an RPG then immediately calls Mass Effect an RPG afterwards.

because mass effect  1 WAS an rpg, and ME2 was not.  it wasnt the shooter mechanic that removed the RPG label from ME2..

however, removing the inventory system (what little they left in was laughable at best), simplifying the skill system as much as they did, and basically leaving ME2 with very little in the way of stat customization, turned the game into basically a simplified version of gears of war.

I never considered statistic customization to be a prerequisite for an RPG.

Then you don't like RPGs because stat interaction has always defined it. Don't  try and make the genre into something that it has never been. It's very disrespectful.

meh, i wouldnt call it disrespectful.. i think im just showing my age.. back before 2004, this debate wouldnt have existed..  however, publishers are trying to make RPGs more mainstream.  hence they are putting more of an action focus to it..

and i actually LIKE that.  i have no problem with them adding action style gameplay to RPGs.  the problem is when you take out an element that has defined the genre for so long.. its going to alienate a certain part of the fanbase..

it be like taking the reactionary combat out of COD and replacing it with a stat customization and dice roll system.

[Sidney]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...


I want to be a stealth specialist so I learn to hide, and move quitely.

I want to beat people up, so I take points in hand to hand fighting.

I want to shoot people, so I spend points on the gun skill

No one ever called playing a butcher a role, that is a job description. The role you play isn't about being a Sentinal vs an Adept. That selection is meaningless what matters is the collection of decisions you make that shape your character.

You need to stop playing games with the need to play a role and focus on games where you pick a class and worry about looting and leveling up. You want Warcraft or Diablo not real role playing.

[King Minos]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

King Minos wrote...

To me, an RPG has loads of customisation (I'm a sucker for it), an amazing story, choices that can change the story itself (think Witcher), realistic characters and universe, alot of dialogue options and many many places to travel and explore each with a differen't atmosphere, characters etc etc.

So far from what i read, Bioware has failed on the story, dialogue options have failed (pick blue or red, i prefer Dragon Age Origins dialogue) and choices seem to have failed (Rachni come to mind).

In what ways have they "failed" anything?

The Rachni choice is useless, both end up with the same consequence, Cerberus goes evil are just examples.

The dialogue options are ****** poor, pick Blue or Red and the investigate option never gets into any real depth unlike Dragon Age Origins. The companions even ask you questions or want to learn about you, you can tell them to ****** off, no good or evil morality system just a dislike system which i prefer.

The story goes stupid as well. You know what gets teleported right next to you know what. Thingie gets a body. Thane gets cured.