258 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Xzeto wrote...

I like to have fun playing my games. I can't stand FPSes because I'm just don't have the patience or the finger speed to play them. It looks to me like that where ME3 is going - to a twichy, itchy, gotta be a good FPS person to play. Any ideas? 

It's been twitch combat from the beginning.

[Cainne Chapel]

yay what is and isn't an RPG arguments again.


Thank god they have SUB GENRES! But by PURE classification damn near ANY game can be qualified as an RPG in some form or fashion.

Kinda pointless at this stage in the game.

[Dominus]

I like to have fun playing my games. I can't stand FPSes because I'm just don't have the patience or the finger speed to play them. It looks to me like that where ME3 is going - to a twichy, , gotta be a good FPS person to play.

The formula has always been more action-oriented.

Any ideas?

Don't buy the game. Then you can have fun playing your games.

[Pee Jae]

I don't think so. I only felt twitchy after the Insanity run. Probably the adrenaline rush. (SeewhatIdidthere?) The only pure FPS I've ever really been into was the Resistance series. Oddly enough, it was because of the story.

I can't see Mass Effect in the same light or ever going that route.

[incinerator950]

DominusVita wrote...

I like to have fun playing my games. I can't stand FPSes because I'm just don't have the patience or the finger speed to play them. It looks to me like that where ME3 is going - to a twichy, , gotta be a good FPS person to play.

The formula has always been more action-oriented.

Any ideas?

Don't buy the game. Then you can have fun playing your games.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to contribute to the discussion, but I saw your pic.

Words words word.

That is all.

[goofyomnivore]

It's been twitch combat from the beginning.

How so? Last time I checked you can pause and play.

[tetrisblock4x1]

*sigh*

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 07 février 2012 - 01:54 .

[Sidney]

AwesomeName wrote...

ME1 is far more of a twitch shooter than ME2. At least on the PC.

The opponent AI made the game feel more twitchy. By that I mean when you have enemies who charge into your "lines" and run in a ciracle and leave again like they are on roller skates that challenges my aiming/shooter skills more than most of ME2. It is also stupid as all get out.

ME2 felt more like a shooter to some because the game handled well - like a a shooter. ME1 didn't feel like a shooter because no shooter designed that badly would see the light of day.. Playing it again for the first time since right before ME2 came out I had forgotten how clunky and unwieldy almost everything about the game was. People apparently think RPG combat = badly designed combat. See also the latter day love for the Truffle Shuffle from DAO.

[tetrisblock4x1]

People think that weapon training = badly designed gameplay.

RPG = choices and consequences

Mass Effect was more RPG because You can't always get what you want. In ME1 it was quite possibly to be pro with all guns, but that would cost you a lot of skill points which are a limited resource.

Mass Effect 2 was still an RPG at least while you were deciding which class to choose, but everything after character creation had a fairly shallow (disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that liking shallow games does not make you a shallow person, don't get upset) effect on the gameplay. Shotguns, pistols, rifles and SMGs all have very distinctive roles in combat, and been able to get better at them for no cost (apart from a negligible sum of credits that may as well be unlimited and some minigames) makes it less RPG than ME1.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 07 février 2012 - 03:01 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Why would it COST you anything to get better at firing a gun other than time and practice? Really?

You point and shoot, simple. Especially being an N7 operative, shep should be at top marks in the weapons he's trained in. Simple. No further point spread needed.

I dont think that particular loss impacts its "RPG-ness" in the least

[Sidney]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

People think that weapon training = badly designed gameplay.

RPG = choices and consequences

Mass Effect was more RPG because You can't always get what you want. In ME1 it was quite possibly to be pro with all guns, but that would cost you a lot of skill points which are a limited resource.

Mass Effect 2 was still an RPG at least while you were deciding which class to choose, but everything after character creation had a fairly shallow (disclaimer: I fully acknowledge that liking shallow games does not make you a shallow person, don't get upset) effect on the gameplay. Shotguns, pistols, rifles and SMGs all have very distinctive roles in combat, and been able to get better at them for no cost (apart from a negligible sum of credits that may as well be unlimited and some minigames) makes it less RPG than ME1.

Weapon training is stupid gameplay. It is the definiation of shallow. ME1's implementation was particularly bad because I never had to use more than 1 weapon thanks to the dumb overheating mechanism. What weapon training does is encourage that sort of mono-cropping of weapons. Why would I ever put down my AR to use a shotgun? I guess I could spend a long, long time dumping points into shotguns so I could swap back and forth but during that "build up" there's no use for the weapon. ME2 solved that by making the weapons a lot more distinct and a lot more interchangable so that there are times I want to use a SR, vs an AR, vs a shotgun. That encourages a more tactical gameplay than ME1's one weapon, pull the trigger and wait for it to die gameplay.

DAO mercifully skipped that so I could use swords and hammers. Even BG2 handled it by creating bonuses but not by making you utterly incompetent with a mace because you didn't dump a handful of weapon specializations into it.

[Peer of the Empire]

It's on a console; it won't be hard

[Han Shot First]

wrdnshprd wrote...

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.
.

You just lost all credibility with that statement, and everything else in your post can be thrown out.

In ME2 you can customize your character's appearance and armor, you have different combat classes with different starting abilities, you have different morality paths, you have multiple solutions to missions,  and different dialogue choices that affect missions or how characters perceive you. You also gain experience that gradually levels up your character, allowing you to further customize my spending points to either improve existing abilities or open up new ones. Elements of the game also are different depending on your actions or choices you made in Mass Effect 1.

How is that like Gears again?

Modifié par Han Shot First, 07 février 2012 - 03:50 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

There must be more to RPGs than Mass Effect 2. What do you all want the genre to be exactly? All I see in ME2 is a minor variation on third person shooters. Maybe Mass Effect isn't as different from Gears of War as the average BSNer would like to believe and that the main distinction is that Shepard can roleplay a horny William Shatner?

[tetrisblock4x1]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Why would it COST you anything to get better at firing a gun other than time and practice? Really?

You point and shoot, simple. Especially being an N7 operative, shep should be at top marks in the weapons he's trained in. Simple. No further point spread needed.

I dont think that particular loss impacts its "RPG-ness" in the least

Don't talk to me about about realism or context, I don't care who shepard is or how things are in real life, I play games to get away from reality if I wanted realism there are plenty of activities I could ddo in the real world. You earn skillpoints with time and practice and spend them how you like.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 07 février 2012 - 03:26 .

[Cainne Chapel]

tetris... thats why developers invented SUB GENRES!

Not every RPG is the same. Witcher 2 is different than FFXIII and those differ from Tales series, which is also different from KOTOR and Mass Effect which are also different from Tactics Ogre and FF tactics... which are different from Xenogears.... and so on.

not every RPG sticks to the Same exact principles. They differ and expand and change and evolve.

It happens

[Cainne Chapel]

who said anything about realism? Why does shepard need to have arbitrary points if in game he is already well versed in using said weapons?

Should we further dissect it and have him add points to his walking speed, eyesight, and so forth until minutae?

No. Save the skill points for the big bang powers and move on.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Han Shot First wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

ME2 was no more an RPG than gears of war was.
.

You just lost all credibility with that statement, and everything else in your post can be thrown out.

In ME2 you can customize your character's apperance and armor, you have different combat classes with different starting abilities, you have different morality paths, you have multiple solutions to missions,  and different dialogue choices that affect missions or how characters perceive you. You also gain experience that gradually levels up your character, allowing you to further customize my spending points to either improve existing abilities or open up new ones.

How is that like Gears again?

I'd probably get banned if I told what what I think of this post.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

who said anything about realism? Why does shepard need to have arbitrary points if in game he is already well versed in using said weapons?

Should we further dissect it and have him add points to his walking speed, eyesight, and so forth until minutae?

No. Save the skill points for the big bang powers and move on.

Shepard doesn't have to start out as good to look like he's well versed, he just has to look good compared to everyone around him.

[Cainne Chapel]

Ah Kinda like Star wars syndrome? But thats technically already built in to the game with the fact that shepard has "Main Character" credentials.

Even the worst shepard is always gonna be "God like" in a sense

[tetrisblock4x1]

I can't do this anymore...

I just have this opinion that RPGs are about stats, leveling and that the RPG factor is directly related to how much of a numbers game it is. I just felt like making that known.

[Cainne Chapel]

so a spreadsheet in a sense?

I get that, but at the same time that's not always what RPGs have or been about. To some? Maybe. But in that case RTS should be RPGs as should anything with stats and leveling.

ya know?

[Cainne Chapel]

Like I said the argument could be made that ANY game could be an RPG.

Thats why I dont get hung up on classification labels. I enjoy a game because I enjoy the game.

RPG/JRPG/Action RPG/TPS RPG/ Open World RPG/Open world action/TPS etc.

Just meaningless labels really