140 réponses à ce sujet

[Chuvvy]

Bioware is well on its way to becoming the infinity ward of the RPG genre.

[Blacklash93]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Dunno what's worst, being called out as a hater in every thread or having the same three people hounding us to remind us that we're not supposed to be here.

*puffs pipe*

Staying on a forum only to insult and belittle a franchise and developer group (and anyone who disagrees) when you've made it clear that you no longer enjoy what they produce is definitely a "hater" mentality.

And yes, the community is probably better off without that.

[Cainne Chapel]

Slidell505 wrote...

Bioware is well on its way to becoming the infinity ward of the RPG genre.

How so? even ME 1 was never marketed as a pure RPG... it's ALWAYS been a hybrid of TPS/RPG action and realistically even ME 1 was RPG light honestly.

All the skills had to do with combat, all the items in the game were for combat, every skill effected combat in some shape or form.

Heck even ME1 wasn't really Niche so to speak, this is bioware we're talking about, if ME1 was NIche, then so was Kotor... and i know TONS of people who didn't even PLAY RPGs at the time that loved Kotor.

[Dave of Canada]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Staying on a forum only to insult and belittle a franchise and developer group (and anyone who disagrees) when you've made it clear that you no longer enjoy what they produce is definitely a "hater" mentality.

And yes, the community is probably better off without that.

Look dear, let me make it absolutely clear: Mass Effect appealed to us, we were interested in the franchise and we're left disappointed in the finale. We're allowed to post our disappointment / frustration on these boards, this isn't the Bioware Positivity Network.

We don't need to be reminded by you or other people how we're haters, as it gets tiresome being hounded by the same group who constantly only seek to insult us, rather than argue our points. If you're going to keep going around on a witch hunt and yell "HATERS, HATERS EVERYWHERE", I'd recommend (optional) you'd take a small vacation from these boards and realize that you're no different.

This whole "OH LOOK HATERS", "OH LOOK RENEGADE WHINERS" or "PATHETIC TROLLS" attitude from everybody needs to stop because it's getting absolutely ridiculous when I can't go into any thread without seeing it from the same four-five people. This vendetta against people who don't like what you like needs to stop, dear. Least the "Cerberus Defense Force"'s issues come from the series rather than the posters.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 février 2012 - 02:56 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Well doesn't it seem counter productive to be a part of a community you yourself said you're dissapointed in?

Why bother to stick around? If I dont like something...well I move along on my merry way.

Luckily i still LOVE the ME series (probably even more now than I did back in 07). thus why i'm still around.

But believe you me, if I stop liking something, I move on to the next thing and dont hang around to discuss my "dissapointments" in it. Least of all on a video game forum, I have more important things to do than that.

I mean really whats the point of sticking around at that point really? Other than the fact that you enjoy stirring up muck?

[Blacklash93]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Look dear, let me make it absolutely clear: Mass Effect appealed to us, we were interested in the franchise and we're left disappointed in the finale. We're allowed to post our disappointment / frustration on these boards, this isn't the Bioware Positivity Network.

 
Then say your peace, suggest what Bioware could do better in the future, and then move on. Seeing it being dwelled on is rather pathetic, really. It's just a videogame.

We don't need to be reminded by you or other people how we're haters, as it gets tiresome being hounded by the same group who constantly only seek to insult us, rather than argue our points. If you're going to keep going around on a witch hunt and yell "HATERS, HATERS EVERYWHERE", I'd recommend (optional) you'd take a small vacation from these boards and realize that you're no different.

I'm sure people were arguing your points at one point like I did, then we got extremely tired of the same redundant arguments that have been repeated ad naseum but being spread around to different people and resorted to the quick version and told the reality of it.

Either there's some ridiculous agenda to get people to dislike bioware games or I'm seeing people dwell to hell and back on what could of been in a fictional, videogame universe.

This whole "OH LOOK HATERS", "OH LOOK RENEGADE WHINERS" or "PATHETIC TROLLS" attitude from everybody needs to stop because it's getting absolutely ridiculous when I can't go into any thread without seeing it from the same four-five people. This vendetta against people who don't like what you like needs to stop, dear. Least the "Cerberus Defense Force"'s issues come from the series rather than the posters.

The "Haters" as you call them are also 4-5 people. I could name them if I wanted to call them all out.

[Icinix]

I have my little niggles with ME3 -

...but after reading a few spoilers - DAMN. I can't wait for it.

Some of the directions they've taken the story is awesome.

Some of the things I thought were anti-niche - end up being very niche.

[Terror_K]

someguy1231 wrote...

Ah, Terror_K, I knew it was only a matter of time before you showed up in a thread like this.

Any sane game designer would try to make each game in a franchise as welcoming to outsiders as possible. If they just keep pandering to the base without any concern for newcomers, their fanbase will get smaller and smaller with each game until the franchise is dead. Are you aware of how much more expensive games have gotten? The top-tier AAA titles need to sell more and more to make a profit, and Mass Effect is no exception. From Bioware's perspective, they don't care whether the person buying their next game is a person who has bought all previous Bioware games and follows them religiously, or has never even heard of them and simply thinks the game looks interesting. All they care about is that they buy it, period.

So, it's perfectly fine to just screw with the integrity of your series and retool it for the masses in order to sell out and make more money? That's pretty much what you're saying. It's also a complete fallacy. Mass Effect was plenty profitable. It's not about profit so much as greed now. Why keep making a game for sci-fi geeks and RPG nerds and turn a reasonable profit when you can sell out and dumb it down for the masses and make a killing essentially. Some of the decisions they've made since ME2 makes it pretty clear that the ME universe can go to hell if it means selling more copies. The rubber-stamping of Deception pretty much proves how much they really care about the integrity of a once great universe and setting.

I don't see how things like the omni-blade or James Vega are aimed at "dudebros". Many players were asking Bioware to implement a melee weapon for use in an emergency. And if you visit James Vega's character thread, you'll find there's barely any "dudebros" there at all (it's mostly gays and fangirls, oddly enough).

The omni-blade isn't so bad so much as the way they harp on about it: jerking it off like a holographic phallus and seemingly every opportunity. It's for ME3 what the chainsaw bayonet is for Gears: a forced statement about how "teh badassorz!!1" the game is, and God forbid we be allowed to forget about the thing. It's just done in such a childish, forced manner it makes me roll my eyes and facepalm all the time.

You say that Bioware isn't interested in bringing in any more "Sci-fi geeks", and then you complain that they're more interested in bringing in "CoD, Gears, and Halo players"? You do know that Halo and Gears are both Sci-fi, right? Good job undermining your own argument.

Halo and Gears or war are essentially just shooters that happen to have a sci-fi backdrop, and not what I'd call proper hard sci-fi at all. Gears' story and setting is thinner than water soup. You know full well I'm talking about things like Blade Runner, Dune, Alien, Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc. when I'm talking about what "sci-fi geeks" enjoy and the type of audience the original game went for. Now it's aimed more at the Michael Bay generation.

Why do you seem to think drifting toward the mainstream is automatically a bad thing? You're starting to sound like a hipster. All of your complaints basically boil down to "It's Popular, Now It Sucks". And you wonder why so many people call you an elitist...<_<

Because there's too much of the samey, brown mainstream mush out there today. I enjoy the odd mainstream thing, and even enjoy a game of Gears, Halo or some of the earlier CoDs now and them. But now there's very little variety from the AAA game title. I didn't get into Mass Effect to simply play "Gears of War with Dialogue" I got into it for being a throwback to the sci-fi classics I grew up with and having a bit more meat to it gameplay wise, as well as being well-written and a bit more cerebral than the standard fare. Mass Effect was one of my "go to" games as far as being something different went, and it was those differences that made it special, unique and more than just another game to me. Now it's just becoming the same brown mush as almost everything else and seems to be becoming more mindless, action-oriented and less mature as a result, just to pander to today's target demographic who want Michael Bay'sploshuns and fast, action-packed gameplay without having to think too much or have too much story or complex RPG gameplay get in the way.

Simply put: this isn't what I signed up for. And I'm quick frankly sick to death of seeing the IPs I really enjoy, be they games, movies, television or something else, getting dragged through the dirt, dumbed down and made more accessible and less mature just to appeal to a completely different audience because that's where the money is these days. It used to be you'd get different things made for different people... but now everybody seems to be going for the same, one market: the most profitable one. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be stuff made for that audience, but that not every God-damned thing has to be, and that things that originally weren't intended for them shouldn't be twisted to suit them to the point where it starts pissing off a good portion of the original fanbase.

[Dave of Canada]

Blacklash93 wrote...
 
Then say your peace, suggest what Bioware could do better in the future, and then move on. Seeing it being dwelled on is rather pathetic, really. It's just a videogame.

See, here's the funny thing. Nobody really cares about one post or two, you create a thread and it dies and if every "hater"--as you tend to call them--did this, we'd have the forum drowning in absolute optimism to the point of senseless drivel.

Look at the Dragon Age 2 forums, many "haters" posted before release and fully remain with their hatred.

Mass Effect 3 is my Dragon Age 2.

I'm sure people were arguing your points at one point like I did, then we got extremely tired of the same redundant arguments

Considering I've been called all sorts of names or being told my opinion doesn't "****g" matter for months now by the same people even while we "argued"? No, it isn't just that.

Either there's some ridiculous agenda to get people to dislike bioware games or I'm seeing people dwell to hell and back on what could of been in a fictional, videogame universe.

The "Haters" as you call them are also 4-5 people. I could name them if I wanted to call them all out.

Do they hound posters and go "OH LOOK THEY'RE LIKING ME3 AGAIN!!!!1 WHAT A SURPRISE" or post "INCOMING BIOWARE LOVERS" in almost every damn thread?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 février 2012 - 03:17 .

[Peer of the Empire]

Unfortunately, human capital is set to decline, and dramatically, for the foreseeable future.

OTOH it means exciting times for the bold and capable who will have no new good video games and shows to distract them.

[DigitalMaster37]

The part that is hard to swallow is that if BioWare tries too hard to cater to the broader crowd, it will take away from what we love about it therefore isolating us - the true fans imo.

Also to make a game widely accepted, you have to dumb it down to a degree and add tons of esplosions. Unfortunately the wider gamerbase is a bunch of ADD/instant gratification needing people.

This is the fundamental developer challenge imo, do we make a game that caters to a wide crowd, or do we make something truly special and risk not making billions on it because the "antsy" base gamer will overlook it as too complicated or as having too much story.

That is why I love indie developers and companies that do not sell out for the mighty dollar. BioWare used to be that company, but as a business man, I cannot blame them cause they have given us some great games. It is now time for them to reap the benefits imo and they are. Will the future games be as good as their former ones? that is a question that I will leave to judge in the future, but it is fare to say I am nervous.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 07 février 2012 - 03:19 .

[Icinix]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Do they hound posters and go "OH LOOK THEY'RE LIKING ME3 AGAIN!!!!1 WHAT A SURPRISE" or post "INCOMING BIOWARE LOVERS" in almost every damn thread?

LOL...but yeah - the crap you get if you say "Hmm, not sure I like this - wonder why they didnt do this...etc" is pretty bad.

[Cainne Chapel]

TK... companies cant "sell out"

They're whole purpose and point is to make $$ FYI.

So of course they'll release something that can A) please fans and please a majority so C) they make money

No harm or foul in that. Bioware is and always has been a company, consumer based yes, so they have to make what they know people like, but they're not making games out of the kindness of their hearts


and as a huge mass effect fan... I can honestly say i have NO qualms with any of the decisions they've made for ME2 or ME3.

Why? Because its a blasted video game that I enjoy playing, its not my life (even though i have thousands of hours logged at this point) nor is it my lifes blood, its just a series (in a long line of games mind you) that I happen to enjoy.

[incinerator950]

I'm not, after losing Lucas Arts, I don't expect to last another two to five years. Don't care if I'm wrong, I usually am. Unfortunately, bad things happen when I'm right.

[Cainne Chapel]

Indie developers are great too but like with ANYTHING else, if they can make money? Why not?

People need to get over this mentality that they're the "TRUE" fans. THere's always differing levels, hell people think i'm a nut for having beat ME2 38 times, but i dont consider myself any more important than anyone else who likes ME2 even if they only beat it once.

Fans ahve to start somewhere. and honestly a few hiccups dont bother me. Because i know its just a game and I dont sweat the small stuff.

[Icinix]

incinerator950 wrote...

I'm not, after losing Lucas Arts, I don't expect to last another two to five years. Don't care if I'm wrong, I usually am. Unfortunately, bad things happen when I'm right.

Then in the kindest, nicest possible way....be wrong more 

[WizenSlinky0]

someguy1231 wrote...

Ah, Terror_K, I knew it was only a matter of time before you showed up in a thread like this.

Any sane game designer would try to make each game in a franchise as welcoming to outsiders as possible. If they just keep pandering to the base without any concern for newcomers, their fanbase will get smaller and smaller with each game until the franchise is dead. Are you aware of how much more expensive games have gotten? The top-tier AAA titles need to sell more and more to make a profit, and Mass Effect is no exception. From Bioware's perspective, they don't care whether the person buying their next game is a person who has bought all previous Bioware games and follows them religiously, or has never even heard of them and simply thinks the game looks interesting. All they care about is that they buy it, period.

I don't see how things like the omni-blade or James Vega are aimed at "dudebros". Many players were asking Bioware to implement a melee weapon for use in an emergency. And if you visit James Vega's character thread, you'll find there's barely any "dudebros" there at all (it's mostly gays and fangirls, oddly enough).

You say that Bioware isn't interested in bringing in any more "Sci-fi geeks", and then you complain that they're more interested in bringing in "CoD, Gears, and Halo players"? You do know that Halo and Gears are both Sci-fi, right? Good job undermining your own argument.

Why do you seem to think drifting toward the mainstream is automatically a bad thing? You're starting to sound like a hipster. All of your complaints basically boil down to "It's Popular, Now It Sucks". And you wonder why so many people call you an elitist...<_<

Eh, I can only speak for myself but it has nothing to do with whether it is popular or not. I am not a fan of the constant pointless FPS games which mass effect has been gravitating closer to, which right now is considered the "mainstream" for hardcore gaming. I don't like them. It certainly doesn't help that I suck at them. I didn't always, but as I grew less interested in that kind of game I began investing less time in them.

Halo and Gears were heavily built on the shooter mentality, and there's nothing wrong with that. But mass effect set the bar for a certain experience that made twitch reflexes less important and put more emphasis on the story (my favorite part).

Really, if this wasn't a triology, there probably wouldn't be an argument. But when you gravitate away from the market your triology began in...it gets a bit frusturating. It's not just making games adaptable to new players but completely re-inventing the style the game comes in. I mean, it hasn't drifted far enough away for me to really be bothered all too much, but I can certainly see why some would.

It really doesn't help that the variety in the market has stagnated. People who once could just go find a developer who made games more to their liking are finding less and less (if any) developers working on those kinds of games. The market is seriously over saturated.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 07 février 2012 - 03:29 .

[Terror_K]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

TK... companies cant "sell out"

They're whole purpose and point is to make $$ FYI.

So of course they'll release something that can A) please fans and please a majority so C) they make money

No harm or foul in that. Bioware is and always has been a company, consumer based yes, so they have to make what they know people like, but they're not making games out of the kindness of their hearts

Maybe not "out of the kindness of their hearts" but I at least used to be able to see the love and care they crafted into their games before, as opposed to the "designed by committee" approach they use now.

and as a huge mass effect fan... I can honestly say i have NO qualms with any of the decisions they've made for ME2 or ME3.

Why? Because its a blasted video game that I enjoy playing, its not my life (even though i have thousands of hours logged at this point) nor is it my lifes blood, its just a series (in a long line of games mind you) that I happen to enjoy.

And that's where we differ... sort of. Mass Effect, to me, used to be more than "just another game." I enioy a lot of different games, but Mass Effect transcended just being a game for me. It was a rich, deep universe I came to love that had a lot of care and thought put into it, and the original game was more of an experience than a game. Lately though, it just seems to want to be another game, like everything else on the shelf. And it's far too willing to toss aside the aspects that made it great in the first place just to be like everything else and pander to the lazy and the stupid.

[DigitalMaster37]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

TK... companies cant "sell out"

They're whole purpose and point is to make $$ FYI.

So of course they'll release something that can A) please fans and please a majority so C) they make money

No harm or foul in that. Bioware is and always has been a company, consumer based yes, so they have to make what they know people like, but they're not making games out of the kindness of their hearts


and as a huge mass effect fan... I can honestly say i have NO qualms with any of the decisions they've made for ME2 or ME3.

Why? Because its a blasted video game that I enjoy playing, its not my life (even though i have thousands of hours logged at this point) nor is it my lifes blood, its just a series (in a long line of games mind you) that I happen to enjoy.

I disagree to a point, but also agree on some points. The problem with what you say is that catering to the broader gaming community requires that you limit creativity and innovation to a degree. Larger gaming companies play it safe as a rule. Indie gamers push what games are and can do. Niche games are where the envelope gets pushed, but your call of duties are the run of the mill. Those games do almost nothing for gaming except make the company some money and provide the same old stuff that we've seen before. Call of duty is Duke nukem, Doom with better use of modern technology and a different setting. Games like Mass Effect are more fresh - Sci fi setting with dialog and choice. things that were hard to find in gaming prior to it coming out. You do remember it from KOTOR, but BioWare made that and it was unlike anything else out there. Going mainstream stalls that progression in pushing the envelope. 

[Blacklash93]

Dave of Canada wrote...
we'd have the forum drowning in absolute optimism to the point of senseless drivel.

There are plenty of people who have things to say about how this series could have been better, but don't dwell on it and make it seem like the only thing worth focusing on.

People who give constructive criticism and explain what could be done better based off a fully informed and definitive opinion are welcome here. People who do nothing but take a quick jab at Bioware and the development teams and then leave it at that, are not.

Take Kaiser, for example. All he did was respond to the OP's point of ME having good interaction with a ":p" as per usual. That's not constructive and only serves to belittle the other person's opinion. He could respectfully explain his point, but he doesn't.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 07 février 2012 - 03:31 .

[Foxtrot 212]

Bekkael wrote...

I think it manages a delicate balancing act between shooter and RPG. That annoys some shooter fans who don't like to RP, and also pisses off some RPers who feel it is too stripped down.

I think if fans of both genres gave it an honest chance, they might discover they liked it.

For my part, I think BioWare has done a really great job with this series. I am an ambassador of Mass Effect and try to get all my friends to give it a go.

We should sooo make a Ambasador group with a fancy logo...... because I do the same

[Cainne Chapel]

I can understand both your points TK and Delta.

I will have to humbly disagree with them but dont think i dont understand them.

TK I also think you misunderstood me, I dont think of ME as just another game (I have never enjoyed or played a series as much as I have ME 1 or 2, I love them to an unhealthy degree I admit).

But I also recognize that as great as it is, I look at them as any other art form or entertainment venue. Great fun but doesn't define my private life, I recognize it as a game and a work of art and leave it at that, I dont stress it because bottom line, otehr than provide me entertainment it doesn't do anything else for me (other than say expand my imagination like a good book).

That said, once again, I do understand your points however

[Lucy Glitter]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Staying on a forum only to insult and belittle a franchise and developer group (and anyone who disagrees) when you've made it clear that you no longer enjoy what they produce is definitely a "hater" mentality.

And yes, the community is probably better off without that.

Look dear, let me make it absolutely clear: Mass Effect appealed to us, we were interested in the franchise and we're left disappointed in the finale. We're allowed to post our disappointment / frustration on these boards, this isn't the Bioware Positivity Network.

We don't need to be reminded by you or other people how we're haters, as it gets tiresome being hounded by the same group who constantly only seek to insult us, rather than argue our points. If you're going to keep going around on a witch hunt and yell "HATERS, HATERS EVERYWHERE", I'd recommend (optional) you'd take a small vacation from these boards and realize that you're no different.

This whole "OH LOOK HATERS", "OH LOOK RENEGADE WHINERS" or "PATHETIC TROLLS" attitude from everybody needs to stop because it's getting absolutely ridiculous when I can't go into any thread without seeing it from the same four-five people. This vendetta against people who don't like what you like needs to stop, dear. Least the "Cerberus Defense Force"'s issues come from the series rather than the posters.

Hear, hear. 

Lurking on these forums is getting really annoying to do. I'm sick of all the fanwars about ME3 and Cerberus. ME3 lovers, accept that some people enjoyed Renegade in some playthroughs and found some of their decisions to be fair. Accept that the writers have retconned EVERY renegade decision. Accept that renegade did not mean evil and Cerberus did not mean evil until ME3. 

Stop being ****s.

[Volus Warlord]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Stop being ****s.

But I like being a ****!

[Cainne Chapel]

Who says Renegade was evil? Renegades are just hardasses, there is no good and evil in ME really.

luckily i haven't read any leaks so I cant speak on retcons (which is tossed around WAY to much) and what not until the game releases.