63 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

Mei Mei wrote...
LMAO
Retroviruses are viruses that reverse transcriptase. Prions are misfolded proteins.

Strange, I do not remember saying otherwise.

Mei Mei
Prions can infect a healthy brain and nervous system and modify healthy prion proteins to create infectious prions but little is known about the molecular mechanism of pathogenesis.

Precisely, and once the healthy proteins have been folded into their infectious form, Commander Shepard will become immune to the electrochemical ravaging characteristic of Ardat Yakshi attacks.

[ObserverStatus]

jeweledleah wrote...
you just don't mind being manipulated by them.  me, I seethed every time I wanted to tell TIM that I'm tired of being his puppet, but instead, the game made me go.. "oh fine, if you say so".

On the contrary, I enjoyed telling tIM "You have one job: information.  If I can't tust your intel, you're useless to me."  If it really bothers you, watch a few "Let's Play Mass Effect 2" playthroughs on youtube.  You may have missed them, but Shepard actually has plenty of witty rebutes to tIM's insistance that his lies are necessary.

ModestmeNTaLmogul wrote...
Ardat Yoshi are sterile, do you even talk to Samara?

The fact that potential mates are almost always killed in the telepathic bonding process would make that appear to be true, but ardat-yakshi disease only effects one protein found in brain cells.  I assure you that they can become pregnant if they find mates capable of surviving the bond.

And of course I talk to Samara.  During her loyalty mission, I told her that Morinth sounded like "my kind of asari."  She didn't realize that I was serious until it was too late, of course. 

Modifié par bobobo878, 08 février 2012 - 09:13 .

[ObserverStatus]

Mei Mei wrote...
You are talking about two different things with retroviruses and prions. Now your just making a circular argument or a simple attempt to show causality when science shows such a relationship does not occur.
Its a funny argument as well. Thanks! 

Circular argument?  That's what I thought about yours, all you have said so far is that my theory is incorrect because these particle function in a manner that I never contradicted.  All I ever said about retorviruses was that they cause aids, but not ardat yakshi disease.  Where is the untrue relationship I am trying to show? I only mentioned retroviruses to explain why this is not space aids.

Modifié par bobobo878, 08 février 2012 - 09:45 .

[ObserverStatus]

Mei Mei wrote...
What you attempted to do was to say prions can cause a retrovirus. 

I said

"AIDS is caused by a retrovirus,  the agent Morinth would use to turn Shepard into an Ardat-Yakshi is a prion, like the one that causes mad cow disease.  Or in this case, mad asari disease."
The first comma probably should have been a period, true, but that was a grammatical error.   I never said that retroviruses are involved in the life cycle of ardat-yakshi reproduction in any way shape or form.

Modifié par bobobo878, 08 février 2012 - 09:50 .

[ObserverStatus]

Mei Mei wrote...
Your still trying to equate a retrovirus to a prion and it's not. It's a different process. Entirely different process. 

Again, your argument suffers fromt he straw man fallacy. It attacks a mischaracterization of my argument, rather than the real thing.  I never said that prions and retroviruses were the same thing, and my argument does not need them to be the same thing in order to be logically sound.  If you are going to consider saying this, please post the offending sentence.

Mei Mei wrote...
Go back to your original argument and see how your outcome would be possible, if it would be, taking into consideration the new information regarding the relationship between retroviruses and prions.. Because the science is not supporting your Sci Fi based hypothesis. 

Fine, this time I'll cite my sources.

"Human prion diseases can be classified as sporadic, hereditary or acquired. Thecause of sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) is unknown, hereditary casesare associated with mutations of the prion protein gene (PRNP) and acquiredforms are caused by the transmission of infection from human to human or, as azoonosis, from cattle to human. Although acquired forms of human priondisease are rare, the transmission of a fatal and untreatable neurologicaldisorder has had major implications for public health and public policy." (Will, 2003)
While I never mentioned virsuses in my original argument, it is a possibility that viruses can cause sporadic prion diseases.  However, ardat-yakshi disease in Asari is hereditary, as Samara herself mentioned.  And in Shepard's case, the ardat-yakshi disease would be acquired.  So there is no reason to keep bringing up retroviruses in this discussion.  I brought them up to explain the difference between mad cow disease and aids, and for no other reason.

Works Cited:
   
Will, R. G. "Acquired Prion Disease: Iatrogenic CJD, Variant CJD, Kuru." British Medical Bulletin 66.1 (2003):                       255-65. Print. 

Modifié par bobobo878, 08 février 2012 - 10:26 .

[ObserverStatus]

Mei Mei wrote...
What you are now trying to do is make a case for transmission of a hereditary disease. Bunk science again. Which still does not work. Figure out what you are trying to argue base it in science and I will be willing to discuss it. Otherwise your citation only shows you looked up the information not that you used crital thinking skills in the application. 

You can still get CJD by eating the brains of someone with the inheritable form will still get you sick.  Whether your proteins are being reshaped by a pathogen carried by contaminated food, or are shaped that way because of a faulty gene, the prions will be equally lethal to anyone who makes the mistake of eating your brains.  Your argument is like saying that you cannot get aids by having sex with someone who got aids from a contaminated syringe.

Perhaps you think that I meant the CJD causing prion will change the victim's PRNP.  I was not trying to prove that I knew how to read with that quote, I was simply trying to prove that viruses are not the sole cause of prion diseases, thus proving that I never had the intention of equating retroviruses to prions.

Modifié par bobobo878, 08 février 2012 - 10:39 .

[jeweledleah]

bobobo878 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
you just don't mind being manipulated by them.  me, I seethed every time I wanted to tell TIM that I'm tired of being his puppet, but instead, the game made me go.. "oh fine, if you say so".

On the contrary, I enjoyed telling tIM "You have one job: information.  If I can't tust your intel, you're useless to me."  If it really bothers you, watch a few "Let's Play Mass Effect 2" playthroughs on youtube.  You may have missed them, but Shepard actually has plenty of witty rebutes to tIM's insistance that his lies are necessary.

I haven't missed those lines.  The one you quited in particular, I use a lot. I play Shepards of all alignments and tend to explore as much dialogue as its possible (its pretty amazing just how many ways you can proceed through the missions sometimes, even without a single use of magical red/blue option),  but even if you tell him off, you still end up going "fine, but don't do this again"... every... single... time. you don't even get to hang up on him like you could on Council in ME1 and he keeps setting Shepard up.. again and again.

its only after suicide mission that you get to tell him off in a way that sticks (and hang up on him if you wish).

Shenpard is a useful tool for TIM.  not the other way around.  All you are left with is just bidding your time untill you can break off.  in a way it reminds me of playing a Sith in SWTOR.  your master is NOT your friend.  they do NOT have your best interests or those of the galaxy at heart. All you can do is bid your time, pretend to be obedient, and try to use them in return as much as possible.  And accept the fact that those who are not under your master's hand, might not see you in the best of light. and be justified in their assesment.  

[ObserverStatus]

jeweledleah wrote...
Shenpard is a useful tool for TIM.  not the other way around.  All you are left with is just bidding your time untill you can break off.  in a way it reminds me of playing a Sith in SWTOR.  your master is NOT your friend.  they do NOT have your best interests or those of the galaxy at heart. All you can do is bid your time, pretend to be obedient, and try to use them in return as much as possible.  And accept the fact that those who are not under your master's hand, might not see you in the best of light. and be justified in their assesment.  

I disagree, up until the suicide mission, your collabortion with cerberus is mutually beneficial.  tIM may just using Shepard to get his hands on the collector base, but whether or not tIM wins the grand prize from this gamble, the actions that Shepard had to take to get to that point benefited humanity as a whole by removing the collectors as a threat.

[Ryzaki]

bobobo878 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
Shenpard is a useful tool for TIM.  not the other way around.  All you are left with is just bidding your time untill you can break off.  in a way it reminds me of playing a Sith in SWTOR.  your master is NOT your friend.  they do NOT have your best interests or those of the galaxy at heart. All you can do is bid your time, pretend to be obedient, and try to use them in return as much as possible.  And accept the fact that those who are not under your master's hand, might not see you in the best of light. and be justified in their assesment.  

I disagree, up until the suicide mission, your collabortion with cerberus is mutually beneficial.  tIM may just using Shepard to get his hands on the collector base, but whether or not tIM wins the grand prize from this gamble, the actions that Shepard had to take to get to that point benefited humanity as a whole by removing the collectors as a threat.

Yup no matter how much Shep can't stand TIM without him the collectors would've kept happily grabbing people and the Reapers would've had a way to completely subdue humanity once they arrived.