109 réponses à ce sujet

[T0rin3]

Just do this... when forcefield goes up on a friendly unit, they lose all aggro and cannot generate aggro for the duration of the spell.

[Zarenthar]

I use this strat abusively because it's in my nature to go for maximum efficiency so I roll with 3 mages 1 tank and tbh combat became boring fast when I discovered this strat... People that say just don't use the strat are just dumb because since it's within the legit parameter of the game it's only normal to be compelled to use it. Add that to the absurd domination of AoE magic and even at nightmare on PC on my FIRST* playthrough the game seems way too easy. Which is funny because a week ago when I started playing I felt the game was very hard.

[Alsn]

At least make the monsters understand that the target is invulnerable.

[Fredescu]

Zarenthar wrote...
People that say just don't use the strat are just dumb because since it's within the legit parameter of the game it's only normal to be compelled to use it.

If it's affecting your enjoyment of the game, then your compulsion is your problem. I agree that it should be fixed, but I have enough self control no to use it.

[TcheQ]

Yeah seems a bit dumb for a foe as overtly powerful and wily as Flemeth to fall for such a trick.

[oghier]

Zarenthar wrote...

People that say just don't use the strat are just dumb because since it's within the legit parameter of the game it's only normal to be compelled to use it.

It's not normal to be *compelled* to use a tactic you do not enjoy, not in a single-player game where the stakes are exactly zero.  That's not even in the same zip code as normal.

[JeffNichols]

oghier wrote...

Zarenthar wrote...

People that say just don't use the strat are just dumb because since it's within the legit parameter of the game it's only normal to be compelled to use it.

It's not normal to be *compelled* to use a tactic you do not enjoy, not in a single-player game where the stakes are exactly zero.  That's not even in the same zip code as normal.

If you aren't comepelled to always use the best strategic move, then you simpyl play games differently than other people. Not our fault we like to play perfectly and be challenged when doing so.

[Solwen_Polyhymnia]

Someone already made a mod to change to that spell that makes it a bit less abusive but that mod also contain changes to other spells you might or might not agree with.



http://social.biowar...ct/828/#details



It is not official but in a single player game, I fail to see to see the magic of being official as long as it contribute to your enjoyment of the game.

[dannythefool]

JeffNichols wrote...
f you aren't comepelled to always use the best strategic move, then you simpyl play games differently than other people. Not our fault we like to play perfectly and be challenged when doing so.

Well, this is a role playing game. I'd wager that you'll find quite a lot of people here who'd rather roleplay their characters than minmax them. Also, there's nothing wrong with playing perfectly under added constraints that you can later brag about. Anyone can beat this game with a mage in the party, with or without forcefield. If you want your perfect playing to be worth something you need to come up with some restrictions anyway.

[Alsn]

dannythefool wrote...

JeffNichols wrote...
f you aren't comepelled to always use the best strategic move, then you simpyl play games differently than other people. Not our fault we like to play perfectly and be challenged when doing so.

Well, this is a role playing game. I'd wager that you'll find quite a lot of people here who'd rather roleplay their characters than minmax them. Also, there's nothing wrong with playing perfectly under added constraints that you can later brag about. Anyone can beat this game with a mage in the party, with or without forcefield. If you want your perfect playing to be worth something you need to come up with some restrictions anyway.

Well, what is the point in having force field "as is" except to allow really stupid exploitation of the AI's behaviour?

Sure you can use it to crowd control someone, but isn't the entire idea of force field to make something invulnerable as opposed to simply stunning them with an equivalent spell?

It makes *roleplaying* sense for the monsters to understand that they shouldn't be hitting someone who is invulnerable. It also makes *gameplay* sense for it to work that way.

Now I realise that it's not really a big deal, but how hard could it be to add a simple "reset aggro" to force field just like how stealth works?

Edit: In fact, directly copy-pasting the code from stealth would probably be a very good idea, having a force fielded person behave as if invisible to the AI is probably the simplest solution.

Modifié par Alsn, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:52 .

[TcheQ]

dannythefool wrote...

JeffNichols wrote...
f you aren't comepelled to always use the best strategic move, then you simpyl play games differently than other people. Not our fault we like to play perfectly and be challenged when doing so.

Edit: In fact, directly copy-pasting the code from stealth would probably be a very good idea, having a force fielded person behave as if invisible to the AI is probably the simplest solution.

Very true.  It may even have been left in intentionally for the simple notion that it actually makes those impossible dragons winnable.  I'm not sure I've had anyone deliver a strategy that doesn't use forcefield on their own party to beat some of those monsta's.  And everyone is well within their right to ignore the use of that strategy and try something else.  I never used it once (maybe i should have?  )

Modifié par TcheQ, 24 novembre 2009 - 10:09 .

[borelocin]

The Forcefield exploit and kiting both spoil the fun for me, so I use neither. I don't need a patch to keep me from spoiling my own fun

[hexaligned]

I've gotten to the point where I don't even use mages, but I'd LIKE to use them, if would be nice if I could use them without feeling I am just cheesing through the game.

[Vabjekf]

people say this is a strategic game then complain when someone uses a strategy other than 'build one really strong tank character, and have a dedicated healer, and two dps'?

i like forcefield how it is, like darkness+infravision in NWN.

you dont have to take the spell you know, there is no real reason to take it for most mage 'themes'. a more nature mage could use primal and creation/entropy exclusively. an 'evil mage' could focus on entropy and primal, etc

Changing forcefield to 'another mage CC' is really a step forward in strategy?

You know what else makes the game easy? Ranger in party with your blood mage.

I think i would rather bioware fix the useless and broken things such as some of the useless specializations to give people more options on how to build parties.

People say it makes no sense that the mob keeps attacking the forcefielded target?
Does it really make sense that an intelligent enemy would keep attacking alistair because he insulted their mother instead of attacking the squishy mage healing him?

Does it make sense that the more impressive looking your armor is the more things feel the desire to attack you?

The games combat mechanics already 'dont make sense' So thats no argument for things attacking a forcefielded target

Modifié par Vabjekf, 24 novembre 2009 - 10:35 .

[Seraphael]

T0rin3 wrote...

Just do this... when forcefield goes up on a friendly unit, they lose all aggro and cannot generate aggro for the duration of the spell.

This is already done in some rebalancing mods.

[Winterbay]

I find force field to be a great way of putting a difficult enemy out of the game for an extended period of time so that you can focus on others for the time being. Especially if that character has a support-function making it so much more annoying to kill the others.



I've tried to forcefield my tank a few times but it does not appeal to my play style, and thus I use it as a CC instead.

[nuno777]

i'm on my first play through. I skipped most of the tough world bosses ( gax, high dragon, flemeth, revenants for juggernaught) and went back last night and did them all without using force field.


at lvl 18 their challenging but enjoyable fights. Strategy is simple. position your tank on one side and keep melee dps on either back or sides of the dragon/flemeth to avoid sweep/flamebreath, both dragons went down easily. Wish my print screen key was working cause i got messy kills for flemeth, high dragon, orzammars dragon and the broodmother with no screenies to show the awesome kill shots

[T0rin3]

TcheQ wrote...

Very true.  It may even have been left in intentionally for the simple notion that it actually makes those impossible dragons winnable.  I'm not sure I've had anyone deliver a strategy that doesn't use forcefield on their own party to beat some of those monsta's.  And everyone is well within their right to ignore the use of that strategy and try something else.  I never used it once (maybe i should have?  )

I'm embarrased you think so. I've done 4 playthroughs so far, 2 on nightmare, and I had 2-3 mages in every group, and I did not use forcefield on my tank a single time in any playthrough. I killed every high dragon in the game in every play through, and I did not cheese it out with forcefield. Calling anything in the game, on any setting, impossible, just shows you really don't know what you're doing. If you think you can't beat a high dragon without exploiting forcefield, then fine, do it, but don't think everyone is in the same failboat as you are.

[T0rin3]

Winterbay wrote...

I find force field to be a great way of putting a difficult enemy out of the game for an extended period of time so that you can focus on others for the time being. Especially if that character has a support-function making it so much more annoying to kill the others.

I _think_ that is what forcefield was intended to be used for, in part. I think it was also intended to be used to protect a party member, but the way it is being abused with aggro, I think was not intended.

As an aside, I dislike that people claim that mods (which are completely voluntary) are a fix to issues like these. They aren't. A fix via an official patch is a much better step in the direction of forcing people to not use forcefield in this way. If they don't patch, then they miss out on other things (such as new DLC), but anyone can just not install a mod. The fact that forcefield can be abused by anyone who wants to, is part of the reason people think mages are OP, and part of the reason we hear no end to the whining about mages. This is as direct an exploit of game mechanics as anything in the game, and BW is well served by fixing it outright, making forcefield work in a respectable, balanced manner.

[TcheQ]

T0rin3 wrote...

I'm embarrased you think so. I've done 4 playthroughs so far, 2 on nightmare, and I had 2-3 mages in every group, and I did not use forcefield on my tank a single time in any playthrough. I killed every high dragon in the game in every play through, and I did not cheese it out with forcefield. Calling anything in the game, on any setting, impossible, just shows you really don't know what you're doing. If you think you can't beat a high dragon without exploiting forcefield, then fine, do it, but don't think everyone is in the same failboat as you are.

I am roleplay.  That means my character doesn't do unnecessary quests.  If you want to try High Dragon at level 10, by all means you may.  I didn't use forcefield either (wtf is a tank lol, i never had one, just people who died a lot). So you can skill to an unnecessary high level just to kill a few of the larger enemies if that pleases you, But it is not satisfying to me.  That task will fall on another character who enjoys sticking their nose in.

And wtf, why are you even getting offensive about this lol.   It's a game and everyone has their own ways to play it. My characters don't care about killing mobs just because they are there.   Did you even sleep since DA was released?

[T0rin3]

Yeah, I sleep plenty, and well. I'm just offended that you think that forcefield may be the only way to beat "impossible dragons". I've done it at level 10 myself.

[TcheQ]

T0rin3 wrote...

Yeah, I sleep plenty, and well. I'm just offended that you think that forcefield may be the only way to beat "impossible dragons". I've done it at level 10 myself.

I put forward a theory why forcefielding was left as it is.  It wasn't "my opinion that I hold dear and truye to the death".  It was just a theory as to why it's still there, seeings as it's incredibly easy to program.  And when anyone meets a dragon, they certainly think they are impossible (NWN rated large mobs as purple-text impossible (i think i remember that right)).  As I've only played for 70 hours I haven't discovered yet a strategy to beat those(since I don't go for power-classing, or epic levelling,  my characters are always going to be low level) but i can definitely think of some, such as having my entire party drink greater warming balm before the battle, and to have them wear some items that give greater healing effects.  Also I think Mabari is immune to being grabbed, but that usefulness is a bit dithered if I have no healers.  As for now though, I do not think I will be killing Flemeth for some time.  My Rogue Noble (who just killed Wynne in the mages tower) is going to take the easy way out in that fight =)

Modifié par TcheQ, 24 novembre 2009 - 04:45 .

[Dark83]

The AI (both enemy and companion) really needs to be able to detect Force Field as "do not attack".

[themaxzero]

T0rin3 wrote...
As an aside, I dislike that people claim that mods (which are completely voluntary) are a fix to issues like these. They aren't. A fix via an official patch is a much better step in the direction of forcing people to not use forcefield in this way.

Who the hell do you think you are? FORCING them? I mean seriously? If YOU have such an issue why does everyone else have to change? Wouldn't it make sense for YOU to change?

Everyone wants to tell everyone else how to play their game!

Is force fielding anyworse then putting some FR on a tank and have him standing outside melee range taunting? Even the Arch Demon goes done to this (yay for Corruption Helm!).

How about you play your game and i'll play mine eh?

[Imryll]

Dark83 wrote...

The AI (both enemy and companion) really needs to be able to detect Force Field as "do not attack".

Unless I tell them to.  Once the other enemies are dead, I want my team hitting on the forcefielded mob, so that it takes damage as soon as forcefield's protection wears off.

Personally, I think it would have been better if, when the game was released, forcefield had caused friendly targets to lose aggro. I'm not so sure though, unless it was truly a bug, that post-release re-balancing is such a good idea, particularly when a toolset is available to those wanting to make the game more challenging for themselves. If there are folks who can't beat encounters without forcefielding their tank, better that they have the option. I'll continue not to forcefield mine--and to use a mixture of classes in my party.  Cause that gives me both more interesting tactics and varied party banter.

Playing a single-player RPG "perfectly" is going to mean different things to different people.  To my ears "taking advantage of every exploit" is an odd definition.