14 réponses à ce sujet

[AshenSugar]

Just wondering....
 
This is my first playthrough of ME2, and so I'm still learning the intricacies of the game.
 
Just completed Jack's companion mission, before that I did Miranda's. Things seemed to be going well.. did all the right stuff, selected every Paragon option. My Paragon rating is currently at around 72%. I figured that was it, I now had both Jack and Miranda's loyalty.
 
Then when I got back to the ship, Miranda and Jack had a bust-up.. and regardless of whose side I chose (I reloaded and tried both) I end up alienating one or the other and so lose the loyalty of either Jack or Miranda.
 
There are actually Paragon and Renegade options available for the confrontation scene, but both are greyed out. Similarly when I try and talk to either 'disloyal' companion after the confrontation, all Paragon/Renegade options are greyed out, and I have no method of talking them round, they remain furious at me.
 
I'm therefore assuming that you need a ridiculously high Paragon score to resolve the conflict peacefully and keep both loyal to me... which presumably means one or the other will die in the final battle, regardless of what I do. 
 
I eventually sided with Miranda, figuring that if one of them had to buy the farm, I'd prefer the more personable Miranda to survive, though I'm far-from happy with the situation.
 
So - to my questions:
 
Is there any way whatsoever of getting back Jack's loyalty, or have I totally blown it?
 
What Paragon percentage is required to resolve the situation peacefully? (so at least I'll be wise to it in repeat playthroughs)
 
Can I expect this to happen with every companion mission? I'm just about to start Grunt's mission.. will he also have a conflict with someone when I get back? resulting in me having to choose which companion to gain the loyalty of, and which one to alienate? Can I expect to have this kind of confrontation six times in total, with twelve different characters? Does every one require a huge, or max-out Paragon score to resolve?
 
 
To be honest, I almost feel like re-starting the game, unless there is some method of regaining the loyalty later. It struck me as a bit of a mean move on the behalf of the writers.. I go through all this effort to help the companion, and gain their loyalty for a brief moment.. only to immediately lose it again.
 
Thank you.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 07 février 2012 - 09:34 .

[Haasth]

You can fix it afterwards. When you go through the conflict and pick one side, avoid talking to the other one until you have enough Paragon points (Not sure how much you need though) and then you can regain loyalty. This does not mean Jack is automatically written off as dead when unloyal however. It is very much possible to get through it with full survivors if you only have some key people on loyalty status (In this case you'll need Samara to replace Jack's role)

As for expecting it to happen with others, no there is not one for Grunt. Originally they had one for Grunt vs. Mordin which personally I am really sad not to see happen (As I'd personally use the opportunity to write off Grunt) but that never made it into the game.
The only other moment is Tali vs. Legion.

Modifié par Haasth, 07 février 2012 - 01:41 .

[Forst1999]

It is unlikely that you will be able to solve this problem afterwards (the checks don't go for an absolute value of points but rather for a percantage. Something like 75% of points you COULD have gathered by this moment. It's complicated...). If you go more for the Paragon route from now on, you might be able to regain the lost loyalty, but i wouldn't count on it.
But fear not! It's quite possible to get "illoyal" squadmates through the final battle. As Haasth said, just don't asign them to ANY special jobs.
There is one more confrontation like this, but i think you'll succeed in this check, as it is easier for Paragons. The Jack/Miranda dispute is easier to solve for renegades.

[AshenSugar]

Thanks for the advice guys. If I've blown it this playthrough so be it.

It sounds like on future playthroughs I need to be ultra-careful to never, ever choose a Renagade response at any time (I occasionally choose one by mistake, not meaning to do so - think it's happened around 5 times so far - never imagined the game would be so unforgiving), and then make sure I do Jack's quest absolutely last of all when my Paragon score is as maxed out as it's possible to get.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 07 février 2012 - 07:17 .

[Forst1999]

By the way, what is your class skill? Did you choose the variant with the greater bonus to persuasion? Normally the game isn't SO unforgiving that a few renegade responses screw you.
If you don't import a character from ME1 it doesn't really matter when you do a persuasion check. As i said, it's about the percentage of possible points you got. mcsupersport explained it in another threat:

mcsupersport wrote...

All convo checks are based on a percentage of how many points you currently have, versus how many you could possibly earn on all the worlds you have visited. Thus if you have 250 points, and you could have earned 500 on all the worlds you have been too, including all side missions and main missions, then you will pass a check that requires 50% or less. Thus when you go to another core world if you decide to skip a bunch of side missions those points count AGAINST you based on them being points you COULD have earned but don't have.

Example you haven't visited Illium, you currently have 200 points out of a total possible 400 then you have 50% passing mark. You visit Illium and you could earn 600 more on that world doing everything, but you just hit a store and leave, thus you now have 200 points out of a possible 1000 and thus you have now only a 20% passing mark. This is also where you class passive helps a great deal because if you spec to the 100+% then you just doubled your actual points making checks more likely to pass.


So it will greatly depend on how many worlds you have visited, but the main determination is going to be, how pure you played your character and how complete you play was to that point.

[Lucky Mame]

I always save Miranda's loyality quest for the last quest before proceeding to certain point of the game. That way I have pretty much managed to earn enough either of the alignment + some bonus for the other one. (I usually play as a Paragon, but sometimes pick Renegade options too. For the lulz, you know) Just continue playing the game. You should be able to get enough Paragon points until you get to the point of no-return. You'll know when you have the last chance to attempt to persuade squad mate back to loyal.

[capn233]

As above, the amount is based on the total amount of possible points at that point of the game. That includes all the random sidequests on hub worlds. So if I have never gone to Illium, then step off the Normandy in Nos Astra the first time, my total percentage just dropped significantly as the Illium missions are now available.

Also as above, the class passive bonus can be helpful, especially the one with 100% bonus. Additionally, the import bonuses at the beginning can be pretty helpful. I have never done a game without importing a character, so I have always had some extra points and that makes it easier.

[AshenSugar]

By the way, what is your class skill? Did you choose the variant with the greater bonus to persuasion? Normally the game isn't SO unforgiving that a few renegade responses screw you.
If you don't import a character from ME1 it doesn't really matter when you do a persuasion check. As i said, it's about the percentage of possible points you got. mcsupersport explained it in another threat:

MY character is a Soldier, and imported from ME1, in which he had maxed-out Paragon score.

The only class skill I have right now is Inferno Grenades. I remember reading somewhere that there was some method of getting a skill to boost pursuasion, but thus far, I have absolutely no idea how to get it.

There's an option in the upgrade pane to choose class skills, but it requires a lot of Elment Zero, which I rarely ever seem able to find, regardless of how many planets I scan.

[Forst1999]

AshenSugar wrote...

By the way, what is your class skill? Did you choose the variant with the greater bonus to persuasion? Normally the game isn't SO unforgiving that a few renegade responses screw you.
If you don't import a character from ME1 it doesn't really matter when you do a persuasion check. As i said, it's about the percentage of possible points you got. mcsupersport explained it in another threat:

MY character is a Soldier, and imported from ME1, in which he had maxed-out Paragon score.

The only class skill I have right now is Inferno Grenades. I remember reading somewhere that there was some method of getting a skill to boost pursuasion, but thus far, I have absolutely no idea how to get it.

There's an option in the upgrade pane to choose class skills, but it requires a lot of Elment Zero, which I rarely ever seem able to find, regardless of how many planets I scan.

I didn't mean this class skills, but your passive skill. That's "Combat Mastery" for the soldier.
As for "doing checks late": If you imported your character you should have a bonus, so doing difficult checks early on is actually preferable. The bonus will become less of your total amount of points over time, so it is a huge bonus in the beginning, but a small one near the ending.

Modifié par Forst1999, 07 février 2012 - 10:01 .

[caradoc2000]

Combat Mastery is Soldier's class talent that boosts P/R rating. You don't have to purchase it.

[mcsupersport]

I am pretty sure also that you CAN'T ever talk Jack around after siding with Miranda, BUT you can talk Miranda around after siding with Jack. So if you want to try to get everyone loyal, in this instance, choose Jack's side and then try to reget Miranda's loyalty. Not to mention unless you wish to romance her, Miranda is a lot harder to kill later in the game.......ie she has pretty strong plot armor up until the very end.

[AshenSugar]

OK, actually I've done it. Thanks for the help.

Clueless newbie that I am, I had absolutely no idea whatsoever that maxing out my class skill would give me a boost to P/R (it probably says so somewhere or other, or in the manual, but I clearly missed it)

I'd only dumped a few points into it thus far.. so basically I just cobbled together 500 Element Zero after intensive mining and some lucky planets, reset my talents and bingo!

The all important 'It's just lip service' Paragon option became available when talking to Jack, and now she's back on the team, instead of sulking in the cellar.

So yes, it is possible to talk her around. Whether I was just very lucky, and did so at exactly the right moment I really don't know.. but it can be done. IN any case, I'll certainly be wiser on future playthroughs.

Edit: Whenever I try and speak to her now, she just yells "F-off"

Modifié par AshenSugar, 08 février 2012 - 08:07 .

[Forst1999]

Normally she only tells you to "F-off!" if you slept with her through the renegade option. Don't know what happens if you had to restore her loyalty. If you're really bothered by this, you have to reload a save before the argument, get up your "Combat Mastery" and try again.
Well, i guess at least it's good that she is loyal again. that you missed the benefits of "Combat Mastery" explains a lot. I was starting to wonder how a imported, nearly pure Paragon can fail this check. I have a few Shep's of mixed morality andhave rarely ever lost a persuasion check.

[Stalker]

I don't know if her loyalty really is that important for you as a character, but you can get her through the mission regardless of her status.

I would suggest you side with the character you like more, and adjust your suicide mission tactic on that. Here is one example of many possiblities:

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 08 février 2012 - 03:27 .

[AshenSugar]

The survival calculator looks real useful indeed. I've read a small amount about the mechanics of this final mission, without getting too many story spoilers.. and it looks like I might need something like this if I want to minimise casualties. I'll do a Google search and see if I can find a live version anywhere.

For now, I can live with Jack being stroppy, as long as she's loyal.