134 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

If you replay a game you found bad, it is only because of one's own masochism.

[Rifneno]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Yeah... if those are your problems with DA2, then I don't see many of them being fixed for DA3.

The DA team has shown an aversion to creating stories that go in directions other than their master plan. If you want them to alleviate railroading, you might be seriously disappointed with DA3. Its just not been their MO for a while now. DAO had enough distractions and illusions to make you not notice the railroading and they didn't have previous game's choices to further the options. DA2 wasn't just a bad example of DA story telling telling the story they want to tell - its indicative of how choice and story telling will work in the sequels of DA games.

Depressingly, I'm sure you're completely right. Mass Effect has spoiled us I guess.

CodyMelch wrote...

About MotA, Tbh, I am an anti-Qunari and anti-Chantry guy. But I really enjoyed MotA. I mean you didn't know Tallis was a Qunari till later and when you do you can easily have your character not trust her and get into a couple of debates with her about how ****ed up the Qunari are and their Qun.

I don't care what you can say to her. Video games aren't about solving problems with debating. Remember when Kratos had that brunch with Zeus and they hashed out their differences over tea? Me neither.

My Hawke(and myself included) were unsure about helping her, but seeing as the plans also had names of those who were smart enough to leave the Naz-erm I mean Qun, that would mean they would be in danger of Prospers wrath as well. Which isn't right since their only crime was freeing themselves from a monstrous dictatorship.

Oh yes, the names. An excellent point. Hawke finds out a major revelation, that the qunari have spies throughout Thedas, and then it's just handwaved away.

Filament wrote...

lol, I didn't say it was a good game because it took me a long time to beat. I offered that as a possible explanation of why I may be more reluctant to play replay bad games considering how long I take to play games in general.

Nothing to do with completion, just remarking on the silliness of claiming it must not be a bad game if people spent much time on it.

[Xilizhra]

I don't care what you can say to her. Video games aren't about solving problems with debating. Remember when Kratos had that brunch with Zeus and they hashed out their differences over tea? Me neither.

Admittedly, the series was dumb enough that that may have made a better game.

Oh yes, the names. An excellent point. Hawke finds out a major revelation, that the qunari have spies throughout Thedas, and then it's just handwaved away.

I... think a reason for this, in part, is that Tallis was acting without the Qun's authority, which she brings up once or twice. Also, the guy delivering the plans to Prosper was still wearing qunari facepaint and may not have been Tal-Vashoth. So to me, it seems as though Tallis badly screwed up a different qunari operation, and that her having the list would actually hurt the qunari somehow.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Some of the oldest RPGs was almost entirely dialogue based... Hell, even some games these days lets you complete the entire game without firing a single shot, or killing a single opponent. Games dont HAVE to be about fast paced action and phat lewt.
Sometimes being put in a difficult posistion and having to make the choice is worth a hundred times more than shooting your way through a war torn alley in "unspecified middle-eastern country"...... Again.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 09 février 2012 - 12:50 .

[TEWR]

Admittedly, the series was dumb enough that that may have made a better game

I disagree. I happen to think that the God of War series has great storytelling, even with the poetic license taken to the Greek mythos.

Which is to be expected.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Admittedly, the series was dumb enough that that may have made a better game.

It still made far more sense than DA2. But I guess that's not saying much. It was dumb in the sense that the story wasn't as in-depth and complex as an RPG, but that's true of action games in general. You want a good story, you play an RPG. That's why everyone is so unforgiving of Act III basically being a video of logic being given a wedgie for 5 hours. That game was about gameplay, and it did gameplay very well. DA2 is an RPG, and it story very badly. But 97% of games are about killing your enemies, and DA2 is no exception. Which is why I want to be able to kill a qunari that's right next to me.

I... think a reason for this, in part, is that Tallis was acting without the Qun's authority, which she brings up once or twice. Also, the guy delivering the plans to Prosper was still wearing qunari facepaint and may not have been Tal-Vashoth. So to me, it seems as though Tallis badly screwed up a different qunari operation, and that her having the list would actually hurt the qunari somehow.

Not as much as my Hawke having the list and then hunting down the qunari spies like animals.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Sometimes being put in a difficult posistion and having to make the choice is worth a hundred times more than shooting your way through a war torn alley in "unspecified middle-eastern country"...... Again.

True, not ALL games about fighting. But the great majority are. And this is certainly no exception. We get dozens of skill trees to help us better kill stuff, and not one to help us negoiate a peace with the enemy.
Oh, and we get WAY more games about fighting through a very specific European country in a very specific era than we do about an "unspecificed middle-eastern country."
"The average gamer has killed more ****s than the entire Russian army." - Cracked.com

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I disagree. I happen to think that the God of War series has great storytelling, even with the poetic license taken to the Greek mythos.

Which is to be expected.

They're acutally far more true to Greek mythology than almost any other modern telling I've seen. Especially once you realize that Kratos is a hyperviolent interpretation of Hercules. Demigod who was tricked into killing his family and then serves the gods seeking atonement, given one impossible task after another he completes them all only to find that the promise of redemption is a lie. Kratos even completes some of his labors, like defeating the hydra and escaping Hades' realm. Of course, they take more than a little artistic license in the second game on. Not sure about the third, I just started (yeah, I know, I'm half a decade late to the party... what can I say, I just got a PS3 at Christmas). Still, they were more true to the mythology than, say, the Hercules/Xena series back in the late 90's.

[Icinix]

*raises hand*

Yeah I can wait.

DA3 might pike my interest - but information and marketing will have to be pretty tasty.

[Fast Jimmy]

Rifneno wrote...

That's why everyone is so unforgiving of Act III basically being a video of logic being given a wedgie for 5 hours. That game was about gameplay, and it did gameplay very well.

I didn't find the gameplay of Act 3 enjoyable at all. Orsino was not a hard boss, not nearly as hard as the final boss in GoA. And Meredith was difficult, but when you have half of the NPCs in the entire game fighting on your side, it doesn't matter how many giant statues she has on her side, its really a pretty one-sided fight.

I thought both the gameplay AND the story of Act 3 were done poorly.

True, not ALL games about fighting. But the great majority are. And this is certainly no exception. We get dozens of skill trees to help us better kill stuff, and not one to help us negoiate a peace with the enemy.

I agree with this. Removing non-combat skills was a huge mistake for DA2. Also, the scaling level so that everyone you fight is the exact same level as you made leveling up nonsense after a certain point. It only made it so that enemy health pools were even LARGER than previously, which led to a longer slag fest every fight.

They're acutally far more true to Greek mythology than almost any other modern telling I've seen. Especially once you realize that Kratos is a hyperviolent interpretation of Hercules. Demigod who was tricked into killing his family and then serves the gods seeking atonement, given one impossible task after another he completes them all only to find that the promise of redemption is a lie. Kratos even completes some of his labors, like defeating the hydra and escaping Hades' realm. Of course, they take more than a little artistic license in the second game on. Not sure about the third, I just started (yeah, I know, I'm half a decade late to the party... what can I say, I just got a PS3 at Christmas). Still, they were more true to the mythology than, say, the Hercules/Xena series back in the late 90's.

It does stay true into the third game, in the Greek cycle of the son of the king of the gods rising up and killing his father, to seize control on Olympus. Just like Cronus did against Uranus, and Zeus did to Cronus.

But I guess this is slightly off topic.

Point being, the gameplay balance is DA2 was off and the story telling was even more so. I honestly feel like Bioware didn't even talk to the people they had test their game and ask them "Would you play this is you weren't being paid money as a tester to do so?" They would have gotten feedback that would have shown them were some of the obvious, huge flaws were in their game.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 09 février 2012 - 12:53 .

[TEWR]

They're acutally far more true to Greek mythology than almost any other modern telling I've seen. Especially once you realize that Kratos is a hyperviolent interpretation of Hercules. Demigod who was tricked into killing his family and then serves the gods seeking atonement, given one impossible task after another he completes them all only to find that the promise of redemption is a lie. Kratos even completes some of his labors, like defeating the hydra and escaping Hades' realm. Of course, they take more than a little artistic license in the second game on. Not sure about the third, I just started (yeah, I know, I'm half a decade late to the party... what can I say, I just got a PS3 at Christmas). Still, they were more true to the mythology than, say, the Hercules/Xena series back in the late 90's.

Oh they are indeed more true to the mythos then other things that used the mythos.

Kratos is somewhat like Hercules in that he may do some of his labors, but he isn't actually Hercules. Obviously, but what I mean is that you fight Hercules in the 3rd game. I think he's voiced by someone that played Hercules in some show. Possibly the one you named.

It's one pretty epic fight, but I won't spoil it for you.

They also keep true to how Zeus was a cheating bastard, how the son killed the father, and other things.

Personally speaking, I found the story told in the God of War series to be very deep and stirring. All it requires is that you look past the gratuitous -- yet awesome because that's what it strived for -- gameplay. And while God of War focused on gameplay, the devs of the series made sure to give the story enough of a focus as well to compliment it.

DA2 however was so focused on its new gameplay that it forgot about everything else and became basically a movie. The whole game is one loosely tied together mess of three disjointed stories, with the protagonist just being a bystander. That does NOT make for a good game. I do not like watching events unfold. I do not like having to make the character's motivations my motivations instead of vice-versa.

The game... is more of a movie then a game. And if I had watched it as a movie, I might actually like it. But if I want to play it as a game, then it fails spectaculously.

And it's made even worse by the fact that the devs are now admitting the game was rushed when IIRC they stopped DAO DLC because "DAII was finished so quickly and so well" or something to that effect.

And even then, imo, DAII didn't get the gameplay right.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 01:11 .

[Rifneno]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I didn't find the gameplay of Act 3 enjoyable at all. Orsino was not a hard boss, not nearly as hard as the final boss in GoA. And Meredith was difficult, but when you have half of the NPCs in the entire game fighting on your side, it doesn't matter how many giant statues she has on her side, its really a pretty one-sided fight.

I thought both the gameplay AND the story of Act 3 were done poorly.

Ack! No, no. She remarked that GoW was dumb. That's the game I meant was about gameplay and did it well. DA2's gameplay was "meh" but RPGs rarely deliver well on gameplay anyway. I can only think of a few that were well loved for gameplay and they were because of strategic elements. Like Final Fantasy Tactics. I know, even mentioning a jRPG on a western RPG forum is likely to have a lot of people hissing like cobras, but it's hard to argue with the reputation. Even if the story was pretty "meh." Cliff notes for FFT: Everybody dies. Ironically, except for Aeris. How about that?

I agree with this. Removing non-combat skills was a huge mistake for DA2. Also, the scaling level so that everyone you fight is the exact same level as you made leveling up nonsense after a certain point. It only made it so that enemy health pools were even LARGER than previously, which led to a longer slag fest every fight.

I hate leveled content. I want to go back and punch Oblivion in the face for starting it. Or at least bringing it to the mainstream.
I didn't really mean it was a mistake, though I definitely agree it was, just that the game is about killing your enemies not diplomacy. The viscount tried diplomacy and a horned Stalin murdered him for it. That's the qunari, and I don't want to talk to them. I want to make their inside into outsides.

Point being, the gameplay balance is DA2 was off and the story telling was even more so. I honestly feel like Bioware didn't even talk to the people they had test their game and ask them "Would you play this is you weren't being paid money as a tester to do so?" They would have gotten feedback that would have shown them were some of the obvious, huge flaws were in their game.

Agreed. I'd give the gameplay about a 5/10 and the story... is there anything lower than absolute zero? They should have some people just sit down and go over the story they have planned out for a game and just TRY to find plot holes and inconsistances. Interns, beta players with an NDA, whatever. Just find some people and make their sole job for a while be "try to poke holes in the story." You'll never have a story with no plot holes. Perfection is impossible in an art, and writing is an art. But they can at least home in on some of the major things people had problems with.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Kratos is somewhat like Hercules in that he may do some of his labors, but he isn't actually Hercules. Obviously, but what I mean is that you fight Hercules in the 3rd game. I think he's voiced by someone that played Hercules in some show. Possibly the one you named.

Yes, Kevin Sorbo who played him in Hercules: The Legendary Journeys. One of my favorite series, possibly just because it's hard to find any series in that setting that has a bigger budget than your average kegger. But I digress... no, I didn't mean he was actually Hercules just that they based him off Herc. The backstory with the family is a dead ringer. He also obviously has Hercules' trademark strength. Granted, also being Zeus' son he's likely to have some power, but like Hercules the only apparent power he got was superstrength. And not all of Zeus' bastard children got that.

DA2 however was so focused on its new gameplay that it forgot about everything else and became basically a movie. The whole game is one loosely tied together mess of three disjointed stories, with the protagonist just being a bystander. That does NOT make for a good game. I do not like watching events unfold. I do not like having to make the character's motivations my motivations instead of vice-versa.

The game... is more of a movie then a game. And if I had watched it as a movie, I might actually like it. But if I want to play it as a game, then it fails spectaculously.

Agreed. Agreed so very much. Actually, save for one part. I think it could have worked if done as a jRPG does: giving you a pre-made character with a set personality. The reason that DA2 falls on its face (on a bed of nails made of barbed wire) is because it pretended to let us control our character's personality and choices when it had intention of following through. If they were more honest about the direction (which is to say, one long straight line) then they would have had far fewer complaints. Final Fantasy has a massive fanbase and sold tens of millions of games, and the biggest choice they ever offered was what color you want the dialogue window to be. Yeah, it may not be the cup of tea of western RPG fans, but it's a lot of gamers' cup of tea.

And it's made even worse by the fact that the devs are now admitting the game was rushed when IIRC they stopped DAO DLC because "DAII was finished so quickly and so well" or something to that effect.

...

[TheRealJayDee]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DA3 would have to be damn near perfect for me considering how bad DAII was.

This pretty much sums up my feelings.

[TEWR]

Yes, Kevin Sorbo who played him in Hercules: The Legendary Journeys. One of my favorite series, possibly just because it's hard to find any series in that setting that has a bigger budget than your average kegger. But I digress... no, I didn't mean he was actually Hercules just that they based him off Herc. The backstory with the family is a dead ringer. He also obviously has Hercules' trademark strength. Granted, also being Zeus' son he's likely to have some power, but like Hercules the only apparent power he got was superstrength. And not all of Zeus' bastard children got that.

True that the family thing is similar to what Hercules went through as well, with appropriate differences between the two. If I'm remembering my Greek/Roman mythos right, Hercules killed his family in a blind frenzy due to the spite and hatred Hera held towards him.

Kratos killed his family in a similar frenzy, but out of Ares' warped sense of it making him the ultimate warrior. And it unfortunately did work.

Both seek atonement and forgiveness for their crimes, and both were told to perform tasks in order to achieve such things.

So there's definitely an air of similarity between the two.

Also, Hercules was able to surpass mortal men in strength, size, and skill IIRC because Hera breastfed him without realizing that he was the bastard progeny of Zeus' infidelity towards her. When she realized who she was breastfeeding, she was pissed.

Kratos is gifted in strength as well as determined. No doubt his time in the Spartan army helped him harness his strength to its fullest potential, and the sheer determination he holds towards any task -- like saving his daughter from Spartan law regarding healthy and unhealthy children -- helps him succeed.

Agreed. Agreed so very much. Actually, save for one part. I think it could have worked if done as a jRPG does: giving you a pre-made character with a set personality. The reason that DA2 falls on its face (on a bed of nails made of barbed wire) is because it pretended to let us control our character's personality and choices when it had intention of following through. If they were more honest about the direction (which is to say, one long straight line) then they would have had far fewer complaints. Final Fantasy has a massive fanbase and sold tens of millions of games, and the biggest choice they ever offered was what color you want the dialogue window to be. Yeah, it may not be the cup of tea of western RPG fans, but it's a lot of gamers' cup of tea.

True. I've said the same thing a few times before now that I think about it. How if they just said that it was going to be a fairly linear game and choices wouldn't really matter as much, the backlash wouldn't have been so bad.

It would've still been there, but we wouldn't have had our hopes dashed into tiny micropieces that were then tossed into a meat grinder fueled by the tears of children.

Still, if I want to play a JRPG, I'll play one. I don't want to pick up a WRPG and get a JRPG knock-off.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 02:38 .

[Xilizhra]

See, I really don't think 2 was that bad. I'd say the gameplay is far superior to Origins, and the story is... flawed but nonetheless enjoyable, although the characters are better than the story. That said, 2's story (ambitious but full of holes) is better for me than Origins' (set out to stop the evil demon thing!).

Also, the first God of War was decent for what it was, but I believe the second two went increasingly into "obnoxious gratuitous mess" territory. Though I won't deny that it inspired my own game idea, Fury (involving you playing a younger sister of Medusa trying to find a means to undo her sisters' curses).

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 février 2012 - 02:55 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

I really need to take issue with anyone calling God of War true to the Greek Mythology. I mean, sure they are "more true" than hercules and Xena TV series, but that really doesn't take much more than using the correct name for the gods.
God of War takes inspiration from the greek mythos, and that is about it. I was horribly let down by the series, since I am very interrested in the greek mythology, and thought that God of War would be a game set and true to the mythology. Instead I got a 3 game long violence orgy

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

True that the family thing is similar to what Hercules went through as well, with appropriate differences between the two. If I'm remembering my Greek/Roman mythos right, Hercules killed his family in a blind frenzy due to the spite and hatred Hera held towards him.

Kratos killed his family in a similar frenzy, but out of Ares' warped sense of it making him the ultimate warrior. And it unfortunately did work.

Both seek atonement and forgiveness for their crimes, and both were told to perform tasks in order to achieve such things.

So there's definitely an air of similarity between the two.

Also, Hercules was able to surpass mortal men in strength, size, and skill IIRC because Hera breastfed him without realizing that he was the bastard progeny of Zeus' infidelity towards her. When she realized who she was breastfeeding, she was pissed.

Kratos is gifted in strength as well as determined. No doubt his time in the Spartan army helped him harness his strength to its fullest potential, and the sheer determination he holds towards any task -- like saving his daughter from Spartan law regarding healthy and unhealthy children -- helps him succeed.

They were both a son of Zeus, tricked into killing their wife and children by a god (though the god and motivation differs), both sought atonement by doing tasks for the gods that the gods thought were impossible to complete, both succeeded and then found no atonement, both committed suicide only to be risen to full god status after.
Kratos' strength goes way beyond any training. The hydra had him in his mouth and he pushed the jaws open while it tried to bite him in half. Do you know how strong a predator's jaws are? One the size of the hydra... it must have the force of a freight train. Lots of other omgwtf instances of his strength too. When the Colossus of Rhodes stomped on him and he just caught the foot and pushed him over? That thing was real. Obviously not brought to life by Zeus, but the Colossus of Rhodes was a real statue. It was the inspiration for the Statue of Liberty. That's a lot of tonnage to shrug off a stomp from, no matter where you trained.

The biggest difference between the two is personality. Hercules is always depicted as a hero through and through. Kratos is... not a hero. He may be sent to kill bad guys but he doesn't care who or what gets in his way. People who say that Justice is simply a demon of vengeance now have clearly never seen Kratos.

True. I've said the same thing a few times before now that I think about it. How if they just said that it was going to be a fairly linear game and choices wouldn't really matter as much, the backlash wouldn't have been so bad.

It would've still been there, but we wouldn't have had our hopes dashed into tiny micropieces that were then tossed into a meat grinder fueled by the tears of children.

Still, if I want to play a JRPG, I'll play one. I don't want to pick up a WRPG and get a JRPG knock-off.

Of course, I didn't mean that there'd be NO complaints about it. But the complaints would be unwarranted since it's just a case of the person having bought a game without even googling it. I kind of miss jRPGs though... haven't seen a good one since Square lost their frickin' minds a few years back.

Xilizhra wrote...

See, I really don't think 2 was that bad. I'd say the gameplay is far superior to Origins, and the story is... flawed but nonetheless enjoyable, although the characters are better than the story. That said, 2's story (ambitious but full of holes) is better for me than Origins' (set out to stop the evil demon thing!).

Also, the first God of War was decent for what it was, but I believe the second two went increasingly into "obnoxious gratuitous mess" territory. Though I won't deny that it inspired my own game idea, Fury (involving you playing a younger sister of Medusa trying to find a means to undo her sisters' curses).

How was DA2's gameplay better than Origins'? I thought Origins was great, aside from the on-again-off-again friendly fire.

Medusa is a wonderful example of why I facepalm everytime I hear someone say we should play DA type games with moral ideals true to ancient times. In some interpretations, Medusa was cursed by Athena because she was raped by Poseidon. She was a virgin priestess you see, and she's not allowed to lose it. Even when she had no choice in it at all. And by ancient morals, that was A-Ok, Athena transforming one of her own priestesses into a gorgon because someone raped her was completely justified. Yeah, I'm gonna have to pass on role playing that world view.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I really need to take issue with anyone calling God of War true to the Greek Mythology. I mean, sure they are "more true" than hercules and Xena TV series, but that really doesn't take much more than using the correct name for the gods.
God of War takes inspiration from the greek mythos, and that is about it. I was horribly let down by the series, since I am very interrested in the greek mythology, and thought that God of War would be a game set and true to the mythology. Instead I got a 3 game long violence orgy

Okay, what I said a few minutes ago about people having no one but themselves to blame because they didn't bother to do any research on a game before buying it? Yeah. This. If you're really into greek mythology, the fact that the guy on the cover was a human without wings should have set off some alarm bells.

[Xilizhra]

How was DA2's gameplay better than Origins'? I thought Origins was great, aside from the on-again-off-again friendly fire.

It's more entertaining to look at (important, as I often don't like combat that much anyway), the talent trees are better put together, it feels less terribly slow and you can also move faster, and I can actually do something with my staff.

Medusa is a wonderful example of why I facepalm everytime I hear someone say we should play DA type games with moral ideals true to ancient times. In some interpretations, Medusa was cursed by Athena because she was raped by Poseidon. She was a virgin priestess you see, and she's not allowed to lose it. Even when she had no choice in it at all. And by ancient morals, that was A-Ok, Athena transforming one of her own priestesses into a gorgon because someone raped her was completely justified. Yeah, I'm gonna have to pass on role playing that world view.

That's why my idea involves getting revenge on Athena. Possibly with some help from Ares, though I'm not sure about that.

[TEWR]

Kratos' strength goes way beyond any training

I meant that his training was able to bring the strength he was born with to its fullest potential. I never said he wasn't strong because of his father being a god, but rather that his training helped him harness it better.

The biggest difference between the two is personality. Hercules is always depicted as a hero through and through. Kratos is... not a hero. He may be sent to kill bad guys but he doesn't care who or what gets in his way. People who say that Justice is simply a demon of vengeance now have clearly never seen Kratos.

Kratos is a sympathetic anti-hero who, at the end of God of War 3, became a true hero. I won't spoil that for you either, but what he does is very heroic.

Of course, I didn't mean that there'd be NO complaints about it. But the complaints would be unwarranted since it's just a case of the person having bought a game without even googling it. I kind of miss jRPGs though... haven't seen a good one since Square lost their frickin' minds a few years back.

I liked FFX and XII and thought that XIII had a good story offset by the linearity of the game.

I also think the Kingdom Hearts series is a pretty good ARPG/JRPG series of games. Have you ever played them?

really need to take issue with anyone calling God of War true to the Greek Mythology. I mean, sure they are "more true" than hercules and Xena TV series, but that really doesn't take much more than using the correct name for the gods.
God of War takes inspiration from the greek mythos, and that is about it. I was horribly let down by the series, since I am very interrested in the greek mythology, and thought that God of War would be a game set and true to the mythology. Instead I got a 3 game long violence orgy

I think all we said was that it was truer to the mythos then other adaptations that were inspired from it.

Which isn't to say that it's 100% accurate. But it's more accurate then other works.

How was DA2's gameplay better than Origins'? I thought Origins was great, aside from the on-again-off-again friendly fire

Well, the new animations are for the most part pretty good, the skill trees are better, it's slightly more fluid and responsive, and a few other things.

It's one-sided though, but this was a problem with DAO as well for me. It needs a lot of work.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 04:08 .

[Xilizhra]

Kratos is a sympathetic anti-hero who at the end of God of War, became a true hero. I won't spoil that for you either, but what he does is very heroic.

I... disagree. It's just another move out of spite because he has nothing else to lose.

[TEWR]

I... disagree. It's just another move out of spite because he has nothing else to lose.

Out of spite sure to a person that used him, but the act itself was heroic for what he did and what it gave humanity.

I meant God of War 3 though, not the first God of War. Thought I added the 3 in there when I was typing that out.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 04:09 .

[Xilizhra]

Even if that's the case, it feels rather thin compared to the orgy of violence of the past three games. Which would bother me less had Kratos been the villain, but...

[TEWR]

Even if that's the case, it feels rather thin compared to the orgy of violence of the past three games. Which would bother me less had Kratos been the villain, but...

Well, to be fair he is primarily killing creatures that threaten humanity. Gorgons, Minotaurs, Cyclopians, undead, etc. And most of the time, they're doing the bidding of the gods. Ares launched a brutal and violent campaign against Athens because he loathed Athena with a passion.

Kratos is responsible for saving Athens from Ares' war.

Zeus was so deadset on killing Kratos that he didn't care how many Olympians died in the process -- as the opening cinematic to GoW3 shows that the Cyclopians and Undead are killing Olympians. Granted, humanity suffered due to the deaths of the gods, but ultimately this all gets thrown back onto the gods themselves.

Kratos wanted forgiveness for his sins and to be relieved of his nightmares. The gods only gave him the former, but betrayed him by not giving him the latter. Not to mention how they killed his brother and mother. The gods had betrayed Kratos countless times.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 04:17 .

[Xilizhra]

But Kratos kills just as many humans in the process, or at least quite a lot. Saving people is far from his motivation.

[PinkShoes]

I can wait. I hope we wait for a couple years.