134 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

But Kratos kills just as many humans in the process, or at least quite a lot. Saving people is far from his motivation.

Not really. The only time he killed humans was when he fighting in his war campaign for the glory of Sparta -- both prior to becoming a god and afterwards.

Additionally, during his 10 year service to the gods he was doing what they wanted. He was bound into service to the gods, usually killing invaders (the Persians come to mind).

He'll occasionally kill a human to move further along a path -- like in Pandora's Temple -- but I don't think there was ever a game where he was killing primarily humans, except for.... Chains of Olympus methinks. And I think that was only for the Persians.

But now we're really off-topic.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[Xilizhra]

Not really. The only time he killed humans was when he launched his war campaign for the glory of Sparta -- both prior to becoming a god and afterwards.

And every time he needs health or to jam someone into a trap when there are perfectly good monsters and weapons around.

He'll occasionally kill a human to move further along a path -- like in Pandora's Temple -- but I don't think there was ever a game where he was killing primarily humans, except for.... Chains of Olympus methinks. And I think that was only for the Persians.

He still cares about no one alive other than himself and has no actual problem with killing humans.

[yusuf060297]

i would like them to take their time with da3 but i would really like they would announce it sometime this year saying what they are actually doing, because i got the feeling that da3 will again end up like da2, only without the waves and recycled areas.

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

He'll occasionally kill a human to move further along a path -- like in Pandora's Temple -- but I don't think there was ever a game where he was killing primarily humans, except for.... Chains of Olympus methinks. And I think that was only for the Persians.

He still cares about no one alive other than himself and has no actual problem with killing humans.

Untrue. He cared for the women and children held in the Captain's Quarters on the ship plagued by the Hydra, as he charged in slaughtering the undead after he had just started walking in to rescue them.

Additionally, most people tend to flee at the sight of him because of what he did that earned him his title of Ghost of Sparta.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 04:36 .

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's why my idea involves getting revenge on Athena. Possibly with some help from Ares, though I'm not sure about that.

Hmm. Hera maybe?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Kratos is a sympathetic anti-hero who, at the end of God of War 3, became a true hero. I won't spoil that for you either, but what he does is very heroic.

Eh, no need, I found out a while ago because the GoW wiki doesn't believe in spoiler tags. I think the heroism of it is rather mitigated by the fact he isn't exactly high on life to begin with. Remember that he tried to kill himself the first time around. No grand cause for humanity, he just couldn't live with the nightmares of what he'd done and no longer had any hope of being relieved of them. And I think he'd have stayed dead if he went to Elysium rather than keep getting stuck in Tartarus (where really, he pretty much belongs) where, even dead, he's still stuck with his past demons. In fact, look at the ending sequence in 2. Kratos isn't known for trickery. I think he really was going to let Zeus execute him until Zeus was foolish enough to tell him he was going to stew in his own torment for eternity.

I liked FFX and XII and thought that XIII had a good story offset by the linearity of the game.

I also think the Kingdom Hearts series is a pretty good ARPG/JRPG series of games. Have you ever played them?

X wasn't bad, but it was 10 years ago. XII was great (though I really think they should have expanded on the lore about Ultima's war), but again, 5 years ago. XIII was less fun than being wrapped in bacon like a pork mummy and dropped in a pirahna tank. Haven't played Kingdom Hearts, no. I saw the word "Disney" and ran screaming.

Untrue. He cared for the women and children held in the Captain's Quarters on the ship plagued by the Hydra, as he charged in slaughtering the undead after he had just started walking in to rescue them.

Additionally, most people tend to flee at the sight of him because of what he did that earned him his title of Ghost of Sparta.

I, uhhh, I don't think he was trying to rescue those women because he cared about their lives..

Do remember that when informed of how humanity was suffering from the plagues unleashed by the deaths of various gods, Kratos replied "let them suffer, the death of Zeus is all that matters." He killed countless people, but the only thing he seems to be trying to atone for is his wife and son. Ironically this is one thing in which the game is very accurate on. Spartans were a terrifying culture, truly.

[TEWR]

Haven't played Kingdom Hearts, no. I saw the word "Disney" and ran screaming.

It's worth it. Seriously, the combination of originality, Disney, and Square Enix -- and in Dream Drop Distance Sakuraba Neku -- works for the game.

Not to mention the background music used in the series is amazing.

But if you ever do play it and get KH2, mute Atlantica. Atlantica was fun enough in the first game, but in KH2 they turned it into a friggin' musical.

And the Disney elements do add some comedy to a dark game. The game does have it's dark elements.

Eh, no need, I found out a while ago because the GoW wiki doesn't believe in spoiler tags. I think the heroism of it is rather mitigated by the fact he isn't exactly high on life to begin with. Remember that he tried to kill himself the first time around. No grand cause for humanity, he just couldn't live with the nightmares of what he'd done and no longer had any hope of being relieved of them. And I think he'd have stayed dead if he went to Elysium rather than keep getting stuck in Tartarus (where really, he pretty much belongs) where, even dead, he's still stuck with his past demons. In fact, look at the ending sequence in 2. Kratos isn't known for trickery. I think he really was going to let Zeus execute him until Zeus was foolish enough to tell him he was going to stew in his own torment for eternity.

Yea. It's sad how when he finds his daughter in Elysium and goes to be with her again, he has to make the painful choice of leaving her to keep her alive or staying with her for a brief amount of time and watch her die.

And I can certainly understand how he's not high on life. His family, his brother, and his mother were all taken away from him.

He really had no one left. The gods really did destroy his life, even if he was partly responsible for the deaths of his wife and child. And what's worse is that they did keep betraying him. The war the Spartans waged under his banner? IIRC, he began that war because he was pissed off at how the gods took away his brother and mother.

Do remember that when informed of how humanity was suffering from the plagues unleashed by the deaths of various gods, Kratos replied "let them suffer, the death of Zeus is all that matters." He killed countless people, but the only thing he seems to be trying to atone for is his wife and son. Ironically this is one thing in which the game is very accurate on. Spartans were a terrifying culture, truly.

Fair point. He does shrug off the deaths of many. But.... it is a war. Innocents were bound to die. It's the same thing as with the bombing of the Chantry. Well, it's similar.

We keep saying that this war will have innocent lives lost. And it's true. It will. War is hell.

For Kratos, this was the second Titanomachy. Take note that Zeus and the other gods didn't really care that much either. They unleashed all of the creatures that Kratos fought on Olympia, and so many innocents died as a result of those things as well.

You can see a Cyclops bashing his club into a crowd of fleeing citizens in the opening cinematic.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 06:54 .

[Xilizhra]

He really had no one left. The gods really did destroy his life, even if he was partly responsible for the deaths of his wife and child. And what's worse is that they did keep betraying him. The war the Spartans waged under his banner? IIRC, he began that war because he was pissed off at how the gods took away his brother and mother.

Well, he joined Ares in a campaign that wound up attacking the other gods, and the other gods didn't really turn on them until he opened Pandora's Box and drove them insane. Kratos, honestly, strikes me as far more culpable for his own actions than anyone else other than the Titans, whose morality I can't quite figure out.

[TEWR]

Well, he joined Ares in a campaign that wound up attacking the other gods, and the other gods didn't really turn on them until he opened Pandora's Box and drove them insane. Kratos, honestly, strikes me as far more culpable for his own actions than anyone else other than the Titans, whose morality I can't quite figure out.

Did Ares' campaign target the other gods? I thought it was specifically for Ares' glory and was targeted at Athena only. And the other gods oddly enough didn't turn on each other.

I'm not denying that Kratos is at fault for his actions during that timeframe. He is at fault for his family's death, but Ares is also to blame because he manipulated Kratos into doing it.

Honestly, the gods don't get a free pass just because Pandora's Box infected them with its evils. They knew Kratos' brother shouldn't have been imprisoned in Hades, yet they kept him there. The gods knew that Kratos valued his family. If they wanted him to not be a threat, they should've let him rescue his brother. They should've given him his brother.

Then... maybe Kratos might've been more at peace with the gods.

Regarding the Titans, I doubt they would be any better then the gods. I classify them as self-serving and they don't really care about humanity, with the exception of Prometheus.

[Xilizhra]

No one cares about humanity at all in this series, they only care about power and family members (maybe). Kratos is no different from the other gods.

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

No one cares about humanity at all in this series, they only care about power and family members (maybe). Kratos is no different from the other gods.

Well, Kratos does eventually come to care about Pandora and she isn't family. He also doesn't hold any malice towards Hercules, Hephaestus, or Aphrodite. Granted, he killed the former two and he is related to them in some way but that was out of self defense and he admits to Pandora that Hephaestus did what any good father should do.

So he can care about people that aren't his direct family, but he's so troubled by his guilt, sorrow, and rage that you can rarely see this.

This brings up a scrapped concept that the series' developers thought of:

The original concept of God of War 3 had Kratos killing Zeus early on, and the Norse and Egyptian gods would appear and wage war with the Greek gods and Titans.

Additionally, there would've been Norse and Egyptian variants of Kratos and they would all fight the gods. At the end of it, the gods would be dead and the 3 Kratos characters would be named kings by the remaining Titans. At the end, the 3 of them would be following the North Star to the new religion of the world.

And because of the death of Hades and the subsequent freedom the souls now had, Kratos would be reunited with his wife and daughter.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2012 - 09:32 .

[Xilizhra]

Well, Kratos does eventually come to care about Pandora and she isn't family. He also doesn't hold any malice towards Hercules, Hephaestus, or Aphrodite. Granted, he killed the former two and he is related to them in some way but that was out of self defense and he admits to Pandora that Hephaestus did what any good father should do.

So he can care about people that aren't his direct family, but he's so troubled by his guilt, sorrow, and rage that you can rarely see this.

You know, this just made me think of how much I liked Hades' rant in GoW3. It's arguably my favorite part of the game. Because, yes, Kratos has killed his wife, niece and brother by this point.
As for the other gods, well, we don't have their points of view, and can't confirm that they don't have some moments of compassion to other people. Except we kind of can from other mythologies... but those don't quite seem to be true, as (among other things) Ares was portrayed as a monstrous god of evil when, in the original myths, he was indeed a bloodthirsty dick a lot of the time, but also had redeeming qualities.

[TEWR]

You know, this just made me think of how much I liked Hades' rant in GoW3. It's arguably my favorite part of the game. Because, yes, Kratos has killed his wife, niece and brother by this point.
As for the other gods, well, we don't have their points of view, and can't confirm that they don't have some moments of compassion to other people. Except we kind of can from other mythologies... but those don't quite seem to be true, as (among other things) Ares was portrayed as a monstrous god of evil when, in the original myths, he was indeed a bloodthirsty dick a lot of the time, but also had redeeming qualities.

I have to admit, Hades' speech was indeed pretty awesome.

Also, we can see that Poseidon cares deeply for his princess. I actually think that he loves her. Whether she reciprocates the feeling is unknown.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And I can certainly understand how he's not high on life. His family, his brother, and his mother were all taken away from him.

He really had no one left. The gods really did destroy his life, even if he was partly responsible for the deaths of his wife and child. And what's worse is that they did keep betraying him. The war the Spartans waged under his banner? IIRC, he began that war because he was pissed off at how the gods took away his brother and mother.

Oh, I can certainly understand why he wants to die, I'm just saying that death (a true death anyway) isn't a big sacrifice for him. I'm assuming that's what happens anyway. All I read was that he's got hope inside him (and a whole lot of STD's I bet) so he has to cut it out.
I don't think he was responsible for his wife and children's deaths. Ares tricked him into it. He's responsible for the countless other innocent people he killed but he doesn't seem to care about that. As for the war the Spartans were waging, I don't really think that counts as a strike against the gods. It just counts against Kratos. After all, he's taking out his rage against the other gods on a bunch of mortals that had nothing to do with it. What did the people of Rhodes do to him besides not being born in the same place as he was?
I haven't played the PSP ones, but wasn't Deimos kind of a villain himself? He blamed Kratos for "abandoning" him when Kratos clearly had no control of the situation on account of being so young he still thought girls had cooties. Speaking of which, how bad were the PSP ones in comparison to the PS2s? I thought about ordering the Origins Collection, but I've never seen a handheld spinoff of a console series that wasn't just an insult to its predecessor.

Fair point. He does shrug off the deaths of many. But.... it is a war. Innocents were bound to die. It's the same thing as with the bombing of the Chantry. Well, it's similar.

We keep saying that this war will have innocent lives lost. And it's true. It will. War is hell.

For Kratos, this was the second Titanomachy. Take note that Zeus and the other gods didn't really care that much either. They unleashed all of the creatures that Kratos fought on Olympia, and so many innocents died as a result of those things as well.

It's not really the same thing with the Chantry. Anders was beside himself over it. He clearly felt terrible over having to kill innocent people. Kratos... not so much. And as Xilizhra said, anytime he needs a few extra orbs or has to sacrifice someone to solve some weird puzzle ("Who builds these things?!" - Hercules) he doesn't hesitate to personally murderize anyone around. On that note, I thought he was a little unfair to Gaia. It wasn't as if she let him die because it looked like fun, she was trying to save herself from falling too.

But, it's not a game about morality. My best friend recommended it to me, saying "play this when you're good and pissed off. It's therapeutic." And he was right! Sometimes it's nice to abandon the good vs. evil and just kill stuff. Now if only there was a mod to change the enemies into templar models...

Xilizhra wrote...

No one cares about humanity at all in this series, they only care about power and family members (maybe). Kratos is no different from the other gods.

No, I think TEWR is right about Prometheus at least. Arguably, Athena too. Hell, she even cares about Kratos. I almost wonder if there was something between them. They're technically related, but that didn't stop him from giving Aphrodite the old hyperion ram. ... Maybe all that inbreeding is how the gods wound up so messed up in the head. If nothing else, it would explain Hephaestus. ... Where was I? Oh, right. There's not many divines that cared about people but there were a few.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The original concept of God of War 3 had Kratos killing Zeus early on, and the Norse and Egyptian gods would appear and wage war with the Greek gods and Titans.

Additionally, there would've been Norse and Egyptian variants of Kratos and they would all fight the gods. At the end of it, the gods would be dead and the 3 Kratos characters would be named kings by the remaining Titans. At the end, the 3 of them would be following the North Star to the new religion of the world.

You know, I was thinking earlier on how they could do some awesome things by a Norse vs. Greek angle. I was with you right up until the story had Kratos involved with a religion based on a pacifist savior. No.

Xilizhra wrote...

As for the other gods, well, we don't have their points of view, and can't confirm that they don't have some moments of compassion to other people. Except we kind of can from other mythologies... but those don't quite seem to be true, as (among other things) Ares was portrayed as a monstrous god of evil when, in the original myths, he was indeed a bloodthirsty dick a lot of the time, but also had redeeming qualities.

It's been about about a decade, and I'm still shocked at Ares near the end of the Xena series.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I have to admit, Hades' speech was indeed pretty awesome.

Also, we can see that Poseidon cares deeply for his princess. I actually think that he loves her. Whether she reciprocates the feeling is unknown.

Oh yeah, he loves her alright. Like the psychopath villain boyfriend in every Lifetime movie loves the main character. Let's see. We already know Poseidon's not a big fan of the whole "consensual sex" thing... she's nearly naked and chained up in his bed chambers, screaming for help. And across the room is a note where he apologizes for "taking out his rage" on her. ... Yeah, Poseidon's a real sweetheart.

[Russalka]

What a lovely hijack.

I can wait for DA3, but I can't wait for the proper time to come. The Mass Effect series ending will probably leave me in such a melancholy, that I will start building a time machine.

[TEWR]

I haven't played the PSP ones, but wasn't Deimos kind of a villain himself? He blamed Kratos for "abandoning" him when Kratos clearly had no control of the situation on account of being so young he still thought girls had cooties. Speaking of which, how bad were the PSP ones in comparison to the PS2s? I thought about ordering the Origins Collection, but I've never seen a handheld spinoff of a console series that wasn't just an insult to its predecessor.

Well, I wouldn't classify Deimos as a villain. He believed that Kratos had forsaken him. Remember that Deimos was captured as a kid and was raised in the Underworld.

I think he just felt that Kratos forgot all about him and didn't care anymore, which led to him becoming bitter.

In the end though, the two make up and face... the god of Death? I think that's who it was. But then Deimos is killed and the Gravedigger (Zeus) is happy about the whole damn thing.

Deimos was understandably pissed, but not a villain.

I'd say that the PSP ones are about as good as the console ones. In terms of graphics, they're obviously going to not be as great as the console ones (I'd say they're about God of War 1 graphics). But in terms of story, I'd say they're pretty good if not better then the console ones. Worth the money I'd say.

Oh, I can certainly understand why he wants to die, I'm just saying that death (a true death anyway) isn't a big sacrifice for him. I'm assuming that's what happens anyway. All I read was that he's got hope inside him (and a whole lot of STD's I bet) so he has to cut it out.

Well, I could tell you what the case is if you want. You already know that hope was held within his psyche and not any of the evils of the box, so you know part of it already.

And remember kids! Knowing is half the battle.

It's not really the same thing with the Chantry. Anders was beside himself over it. He clearly felt terrible over having to kill innocent people. Kratos... not so much. And as Xilizhra said, anytime he needs a few extra orbs or has to sacrifice someone to solve some weird puzzle ("Who builds these things?!" - Hercules) he doesn't hesitate to personally murderize anyone around. On that note, I thought he was a little unfair to Gaia. It wasn't as if she let him die because it looked like fun, she was trying to save herself from falling too.

Hence why I corrected myself to say it's similar. Even if the feelings towards the war are different between the two, the whole "People are going to die. Can't help it" thing remains true. As such, Kratos can't really be held accountable for those deaths, especially if the gods are causing death as well.

Also, I think he was perfectly fair to Gaia. She flat out states that Kratos was used as a tool for her own ends and she doesn't care about him.

And then she had the audacity to ask Kratos to assist her.

But, it's not a game about morality. My best friend recommended it to me, saying "play this when you're good and pissed off. It's therapeutic." And he was right! Sometimes it's nice to abandon the good vs. evil and just kill stuff. Now if only there was a mod to change the enemies into templar models

You'd think with all the things Kratos killed any anger issues would've been gone by now =P.

And my god did I love killing Hermes. Little bastard was annoying as hell.

No, I think TEWR is right about Prometheus at least. Arguably, Athena too. Hell, she even cares about Kratos. I almost wonder if there was something between them. They're technically related, but that didn't stop him from giving Aphrodite the old hyperion ram. ... Maybe all that inbreeding is how the gods wound up so messed up in the head. If nothing else, it would explain Hephaestus. ... Where was I? Oh, right. There's not many divines that cared about people but there were a few.

I lol'd.

Anyway, I can consider Athena a person that cares about humanity up to her death. Once she's dead, all she wants to do is rule from on high as the New God. And even then, she's the same as Gaia. She was simply using Kratos to further her own ends.

It's speculated that she was infected by Greed, but that evil didn't manifest until after her death. Makes sense though.

I'd also throw in Aphrodite into the cast of people that cares for humanity. She seems to despise how the gods and everyone are so focused on war and vengeance.

Granted, she just wants to get laid some more by guys, but it's still caring about humanity.

Oh yeah, he loves her alright. Like the psychopath villain boyfriend in every Lifetime movie loves the main character. Let's see. We already know Poseidon's not a big fan of the whole "consensual sex" thing... she's nearly naked and chained up in his bed chambers, screaming for help. And across the room is a note where he apologizes for "taking out his rage" on her. ... Yeah, Poseidon's a real sweetheart.

Well, taking out his rage could be abuse. Or it could be extreme yelling and punching walls/throwing things across the room.

Additionally, the portal to his room leads to a bed of spikes. Seriously, who the hell puts a bed of spikes outside their bedroom?

...never mind. He probably did that out of some twisted sense of "If I can't have her, no one can!"

But you're right, she is chained up so chances are very likely that she didn't care for Poseidon. If she did, that's probably due to... what is it? Stockholm Syndrome?

And you know, it's funny. Poseidon wasn't as deeply affected by Pandora's Box like the other gods. He was most likely infected by anger given how he acted towards the girl, but he was able to realize that Zeus was so far off his rocker he'd have to climb Olympus just to have his rocker within eyesight again.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[Xilizhra]

And my god did I love killing Hermes. Little bastard was annoying as hell.

Honestly? I liked Hermes a lot. Though I hate Kratos, so...
And the only thing Zeus did wrong was destroy Sparta out of spite. Kratos almost certainly would have turned on him; he's a ball of permanent rage, after all. If people on Olympia started dying... well, that'd fit under your clause of it being war.

[TEWR]

Honestly? I liked Hermes a lot. Though I hate Kratos, so...

I liked him at first, but after a while he did kinda get annoying.

Occasionally though he'll still make me laugh, but he's so arrogant. It's most likely what he was infected with.

And the only thing Zeus did wrong was destroy Sparta out of spite. Kratos almost certainly would have turned on him; he's a ball of permanent rage, after all. If people on Olympia started dying... well, that'd fit under your clause of it being war.

It does. I'm not denying that. Just that the same idea of not caring about humanity applies to the gods as well. Kratos may not care, but neither do the majority of the gods. And we only know of one Titan that cares for humanity.

So really, Kratos kinda did humanity a favor in my book if he took down a pantheon of gods that didn't give a **** about humanity.

[Xilizhra]

I think they care about humanity as an aggregate, if not individual people. Their order requires humans in it, after all.

[TEWR]

Is that really caring about humanity though? That's just more like they'd be caring about holding the seats of power and not about humanity itself, whether it be individual souls or the collective assembly of humans itself.

Which means that they're self-serving and that they really don't care at all about humanity. They only care about themselves.

Only a few gods seem to really care about humanity. Athena up to her death, Poseidon by his comments on Olympus' death equaling the death of everyone, Aphrodite in a mix of self-serving care and likely actual care given she is the goddess of love, and maybe a few others.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 février 2012 - 01:05 .

[Xilizhra]

Well... Kratos caused the oceans to go crazy, allowed the spirits of the dead to charge out and attack the living, extinguished the sun and unleashed some kind of plague. I think the gods were a better alternative.

[General User]

I'll wait for DAIII as long as it takes!

Even longer actually. Because, after DAII, there's no way I'm paying pre-order/first day price.

Modifié par General User, 10 février 2012 - 01:34 .

[Rifneno]

Russalka wrote...

What a lovely hijack.

Oh I know right? On a forum about a medieval fantasy video game, a few people wind up discussing another medieval fantasy video game because of an innocent analogy. What horrors humanity is capable of!

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hence why I corrected myself to say it's similar. Even if the feelings towards the war are different between the two, the whole "People are going to die. Can't help it" thing remains true. As such, Kratos can't really be held accountable for those deaths, especially if the gods are causing death as well.

Some of them he can. The best example being when he knew the plagues being unleashed by the death of gods and he snapped Hera's neck because she called Pandora a name. She was no threat to him or to anyone really unless they look remarkably like a goblet of liquor. He was going to leave her be, wallowing in the mud, until she said something that pissed him off. So he snapped her neck and unleashed another plague.

Also, the "war is hell" thing is true but that's why we avoid war unless all other reasonable alternatives have failed. For Kratos, war is solution #1. Although you can argue that's not entirely his fault, as being raised in Sparta that's all he was taught growing up. Still... not exactly a good guy.

Also, I think he was perfectly fair to Gaia. She flat out states that Kratos was used as a tool for her own ends and she doesn't care about him.

And then she had the audacity to ask Kratos to assist her.

She was a dick about it, but he was too. "Save me, Gaia!" "But if I save you, then I fall!" "So?" "You're a tool! In more ways than one!" She didn't abandon him until saving him meant her death too. On the other side of the coin, he didn't just let her fall when he came back, he chopped off her hand to make her fall.
Don't know how she thought Kratos could help her back up though. She could knee a brontosaurus in the face.

You'd think with all the things Kratos killed any anger issues would've been gone by now =P.

They say I've got an anger management problem. But they don't say it to my face!

I'd also throw in Aphrodite into the cast of people that cares for humanity. She seems to despise how the gods and everyone are so focused on war and vengeance.

Granted, she just wants to get laid some more by guys, but it's still caring about humanity.

Not just guys. Don't you remember the tuna buffet she had when Kratos stumbled upon her chambers in III? I actually saw some people angry about that, citing that there not being anything in greek mythology that hinted toward Aphrodite swinging that way. Which I just found hilarious. Really? That's your problem with the authenticity? Really? Also amusing is when they theorize that she was infected with lust and then remember who she is.

Well, taking out his rage could be abuse. Or it could be extreme yelling and punching walls/throwing things across the room.

Xilizhra wrote...

Well... Kratos caused the oceans to go crazy, allowed the spirits of the dead to charge out and attack the living, extinguished the sun and unleashed some kind of plague. I think the gods were a better alternative.

Looking at what the gods were subjecting them to in the afterlife pales in comparison to causing some deaths. A lot of the people in Tartarus didn't seem to have done anything to deserve it. As for the stuff Kratos unleashed by killing gods, I think he can only really be held responsible for the ones after he knew that killing them would cause disasters. He certainly didn't know what Poseidon died. After that it's sketchy when he figured it out or if he only did when he was specifically told.

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

Some of them he can. The best example being when he knew the plagues being unleashed by the death of gods and he snapped Hera's neck because she called Pandora a name. She was no threat to him or to anyone really unless they look remarkably like a goblet of liquor. He was going to leave her be, wallowing in the mud, until she said something that pissed him off. So he snapped her neck and unleashed another plague.

Fair point. One could argue however that Hera might've tried something later on to Pandora to keep Kratos from finding her and he simply nipped her in the bud.

And the calling her a **** certainly didn't help things. One could also argue he may have killed her out of a sense of honoring Hephaestus, since even after he was betrayed by him Kratos held no ill will towards Hephaestus. You know, since he does state that Hephaestus did what every good father should do: protect his child.

Also, the "war is hell" thing is true but that's why we avoid war unless all other reasonable alternatives have failed. For Kratos, war is solution #1. Although you can argue that's not entirely his fault, as being raised in Sparta that's all he was taught growing up. Still... not exactly a good guy.

I think he did try all reasonable alternatives. He went out searching for his brother, the one person that might be able to make him forget about everything.

And then he gets ****ed over.

This isn't something he could just easily forget. What the gods did made this personal and he was through trying to find peace anymore.

She was a dick about it, but he was too. "Save me, Gaia!" "But if I save you, then I fall!" "So?" "You're a tool! In more ways than one!"

you know, I have to wonder why the hell Kratos didn't just jump to one of those trees growing on Gaia's back. They're not there to make her look pretty!
 

She didn't abandon him until saving him meant her death too. On the other side of the coin, he didn't just let her fall when he came back, he chopped off her hand to make her fall.

I just think it's kinda arrogant for her to ask for help when she refused to help him. It's funny. She let him fall because she needed to save herself, only for her to still have ended up falling down the mountain.

Progress. She never made any.

Honestly I doubt Kratos could've made her fall short of doing what he did. She was holding on to that thing pretty tight.

Don't know how she thought Kratos could help her back up though. She could knee a brontosaurus in the face.

Nappa: Vegeta, what's the scouter say about his power level?
Vegeta: It's over 9000!!!
*breaks scouter*

I mean, Kratos is extremely strong but he's not Super Saiyan + Superman + Jackie Chan Adventures Ox Talisman strong.

Oh god. I now have a mental image of a Super Saiyan Kratos. I'm not sure whether that's horrific or badass.

Not just guys. Don't you remember the tuna buffet she had when Kratos stumbled upon her chambers in III?

I do, but her dialogue implied that she was growing tired of eating out with a few of her girlfriends.

 
I actually saw some people angry about that, citing that there not being anything in greek mythology that hinted toward Aphrodite swinging that way. Which I just found hilarious. Really? That's your problem with the authenticity? Really?

I lol'd. 

Also amusing is when they theorize that she was infected with lust and then remember who she is.

I lol'd even harder. These things made me lol when I first found out about them too.

If anything, she was infected with the greatest evil of them all: Neutrality.

I've taken out my rage by punching walls before and yelling very loudly.

Damn near broke my hand doing it.

Looking at what the gods were subjecting them to in the afterlife pales in comparison to causing some deaths. A lot of the people in Tartarus didn't seem to have done anything to deserve it. As for the stuff Kratos unleashed by killing gods, I think he can only really be held responsible for the ones after he knew that killing them would cause disasters. He certainly didn't know what Poseidon died. After that it's sketchy when he figured it out or if he only did when he was specifically told.

Let's see... the list of gods he killed -- not counting Ares and Athena into this list or any of the other gods killed in previous installments -- that caused disasters are:

1) Poseidon -- Great Flood
2) Hades -- souls wandering without a purpose in the mortal realm
3) Helios -- blotted out the sun and caused a massive storm to rage
4) Hermes -- Plague of insects carrying disease
5) Hephaestus -- may have caused volcanoes to erupt, though we don't know for certain if any disaster occurred.
6) Hera -- plants withered and died. Though she wasn't the goddess of agriculture and the like.
7) Zeus -- ummm.... don't know. Tornadoes and severe thunderstorms were already going on prior to his death weren't they?

I think that's the order.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 février 2012 - 02:46 .

[ProneToGlory]

So, back on topic...hopefully haha. In my opinion I feel that Bioware should take as much time as they need and polish Dragon Age 3 to the maximum. The MAXIMUM. I don't want any half assed game coming out, not another Dragon Age 2. Don't get me wrong I liked DA2, it just didn't live up to Dragon age Origins.

They need to work on immersion. Reading a codex entry about the Hero of Ferelden, and how he gathered the armies and won the rebellion and then saved Ferelden by killing the Archdemon and MAKING THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE for the greater good only to read in the next paragraph that he married Anora after the blight and is now the Prince-Consort. Really?

Not only immersion but the really crappy textures used for bystanders. I want life! A breathing city! People running errands, the merchants calling out goods, beggers chasing after a character maybe *cough cough Assassin's Creed cough cough* I want to see guards making an arrest. SOMETHING! Look to the Witcher 2 or Skryim for inspiration, but find it somewhere.

DA3 has the potential to be something great. David Gaider's writing has never been better in my opinion, just finished Asunder, and I feel the story could be monumental in setting the end of the Dragon age franchise. Just please, PLEASE, don't make the same mistakes!

[Gotholhorakh]

CodyMelch wrote...
Agreed. I
still remember the crap Bioware was posting in reply to those who were
worried that they were rushing the game. The arrogance, and know it all
posts they made right before locking each topic.

and worse, the tone adopted was of those people being completely wrong - of scoffing at how stupid they were being.

We know now that most of those concerns were right on the money.

I don't think we can morally criticise BioWare for believing in their own product, even to the point of blindness, but people were still laughed out of court for stuff that could really, honestly have just been confirmed, and the joke is still on the rest of us for believing the reassurances and buying it.

RazorrX wrote...
IMO Bioware is the best cRPG company around - when they are on their A game. When they made Dragon Age they really made something awesome. I love the lore of the world and was blown away with DA:O. I do not understand why they opted to change so many things engine wise for DA2 considering the very short development cycle it had.

Yea, they made something people loved in DA:O.

It will have been expensive, though - I honestly thought their next step, given what the sales were looking like and the time they'd poured into the game, would be a few games based on the same technology and gameplay experience which expanded upon the world, story, creatures, spells, skills and occasional improvements to the shiny stuff that looks good in reviews (graphics, buzzwords about AI, etc).

It seems like they did want/need to sell more and make a better profit; however they made the decision to transform the game completely and release much more quickly. People hated it, far from garnering extra fans it has in the most optimistic PR speak possible "divided the community into two groups of fans" and in the kind of language we'd use in a real conversation, it's moved from catering to a niche market, to catering to a smaller part of a niche market.

Oh well, not the end of the world, I guess they'll pull up and fly right now, and surely we will still see changes because they're obviously trying to wedge the DA kind of game into the mass market - but they won't do DA2 again, right? RIGHT?

Wrong. We've already seen signs that DA3 will not get off the the DA2 detour.

I guess that lots of DA:O fans buying DA2 and being a bit disappointed is still profit regardless of the damage to the brand - because of how quickly it was produced, because this much has already been intimated by BioWare employees.

Of course, the same rationale would consider DA2 a success if they had just sold us an empty jewel case, or a Dragon Age branded box which exploded on opening, but it's not our decision to make, and ultimately not us who face the real world consequences of their decisions about changes to Dragon Age.

If it's like DA2, I can wait. I can wait a very long time indeed. Like most people I will always find something else to do.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 10 février 2012 - 10:19 .