134 réponses à ce sujet

[Gretnablue]

This is a thread I
have wanted to make for a while but I have been holding on to in case
I sound like I'm just some angry troll that's going on the "Lets hate
Bio Ware band wagon" or just overreacting. But after reading some threads
on this site as well as others I decided to write this.



I should start this saying that I have Asperger Syndrome (Not that
"internet Asperger’s syndrome" before people start shaking their
heads) I was diagnosed when I was 2 years old which had the bad
timing of being at the height of the MMR scare and...I live a normal
life. I socialize, I have friends and family I get good grades at school
and I basically lead just an ordinary life. This however does not mean
that my Asperger’s has never been an issue. I have occasionally (and I mean
like once or twice a year) haven't gotten some subtle things and I am a bit literal
minded when it comes to art. But probably the worst thing that has happened to
me was in P3 (third grade) when our teacher showed us Rain Man and then started
talking about Autism and then told the entire class about my Asperger’s
syndrome and then basically started treating me like I was a thing or
statistic. for a while the entire school was making fun and bullying me, saying
that they could say anything they want to me because I’m emotionless so I won't
know what sadness is or they the beat me up or poke me because people like me
don't like getting touched. After a year or two this phased out when they got
bored and luckily that teacher got sacked (whether it was because of me or not
I don't know). You know what, I have emotions, I have feelings and
I don't mind people touching me (and not like that you sicko) and those
who bullied me hurt me both physically and psychologically.



What I don't understand however why so many shows/books/movies etc. seem
to feel the need to constantly depicted people like me or other people who have
condition in the autism spectrum as emotionless, lonely, have OCD, always
having to make to build or solve things and weak minded. Well everyone I
know with Autism isn't like that and I'm sure in hell I’m not like that. Now I
know there are occasional people like that but you also get some occasional
flaming homosexuals but does that mean the majority of homosexuals
are also like that, of course not. I don't understand why in a world of people
being constantly being politically correct that it is acceptable to generalise
and threat people with forms of Autism as people with a decease that
should be purged from the face of the earth or should be treated specially because
"they a different and they don’t understand things like us normal people
do!” People with autism is just a quirk for most people who have it and should
not be treated specially for it, they should just be treated like you would
anyone else. There are a lot of famous people with conformed conditions in the autistic
spectrum like Dan Aykroyd, Gary Numan, Dawn Prince-Hughes and Satoshi Tajiri and they all live normal
lives.

Here are some links
to other people with similar opinions:
                               
(yes she is talking about MLP FIM but what she says still makes a good point.)

Now before people start complaining
that this thread has nothing to do with Mass Effect 3 or any other Mass Effect
game. The reason for the top bit is that I want you to know from where I am
coming here and I am not that I am some troll wanting to get a good kick in seeing
you guys rage me so here it is. In my personal opinion (opinion being the key
term here) that Mass Effect 2 poorly depicted people with autism in the
Overlord DLC with the character of David Archer as it seem to imply that the
reason that he can talk to geth or that the machines takes over him is because
he was Autistic which meant he was weaker minded, was insanely good at math and
needed to solve equations and could be easily manipulated by his brother. I
found this to be very offensive stereotype in a game which in which they try to
make realistic and unique characters. I especially found the line, “His Autistic mind can interpret the geth language
at its most basic form and mimic their phonetics”[/i] cringe worthy as I found
this very insulting and seems to imply that people with conditions in the autistic
spectrum are somehow freaks that can talk to machines because they are special.
I also don’t even understand why the even made him autistic as they could have
easily made him someone like Reg Barclay from TNG and it would have made the
story much better in my opinion. I’m also not to fond in seeing peoples
reaction to that it was reviled that Gillian Grayson from the novels has
autism, and yet this has not been mentioned before or that they don’t like how
most “Normal” people seem to think what all people with autism act. Now I’m not
saying that Deception is a masterpiece, far from it I think it’s stink bomb but
I do like that we can have one normal person with autism without it being very
offensive (however I did have to slap my head when the book seems to imply that
she became autistic because of what Cerberus did to her which is just a load of
horse C***!).

 

My worry is however that is because of
the success and the way autism was handled in Overlord and how much people
hated Deception, is that they will introduce more characters with autism in
Mass Effect 3 and treat it so offensively instead of making them normal, well
rounded characters like most people in the real world are. Hell Shepard could be
autistic and you know what, it doesn’t matter because he is still a hero and he
is still a human being. What do you think?

 

Thank you for reading and may I say yet
again that I hope I have not come across as some troll who is only here for a
good laugh. I am honestly trying to be as polite and as calm as possible. I am
sorry if I do come across like a troll.

[Dasher1010]

I think that Gillian will make an appearance in ME3. Also, Liara comes across like an aspie to me. Liara is also nothing like David.

[Fidget6]

I have high functioning autism as well. I haven't played the Overlord DLC, but from what you describe I don't think they were trying to say he could talk to machines because he was an autistic freak, people with autism often obsess over very specific subjects and because of that are usually extremely gifted in some area. I'm guessing the geth was the area they chose for that character? As for why autistic characters are shown to be extremely awkward in media, it's the same reason gay characters are always shown to be victimized. For dramatic purposes to make the character and story more interesting.

[essarr71]

Never thought David was weak-minded. Or that his autism was the reason his brother could take advantage of him - figured that was because David *trusted* his brother.

Maybe its just a matter of perspective, but i always felt that David was depicted very well: as a victim of his brothers ambition and not from his condition.

[crimzontearz]

Dasher1010 wrote...
I think that Gillian will make an appearance in ME3. Also, Liara comes across like an aspie to me. Liara is also nothing like David.

uh.....Gillian is dead right?

[sponge56]

Gretnablue wrote...









What I don't understand however why so many shows/books/movies etc. seem
to feel the need to constantly depicted people like me or other people who have
condition in the autism spectrum as emotionless, lonely, have OCD, always
having to make to build or solve things and weak minded. 

Ummmm, do they? Some addmitedly will yes but then this happens with many conditions and diseases represented in films/books/tv shows, eg. a cancer patient is usually portrayed in a sympathetic manner.  You rarely find a Cancer patient in films or tv who is a dick.

some occasional flaming homosexuals
 

Mate, what the hell? What is your definition of a 'flaming homosexual'.

I do like that we can have one normal person with autism without it being very
offensive (however I did have to slap my head when the book seems to imply that

 

The issue with Deception is that she is said to have gotten over her autism, which is impossible. It can get better but you cant get over it

[GnusmasTHX]

OP made me cancel my pre-order.

[essarr71]

crimzontearz wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...
I think that Gillian will make an appearance in ME3. Also, Liara comes across like an aspie to me. Liara is also nothing like David.

uh.....Gillian is dead right?

Could still be in it. Granted she wouldnt say much... Rim shot?  Anyone?

[ediskrad327]

crimzontearz wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...
I think that Gillian will make an appearance in ME3. Also, Liara comes across like an aspie to me. Liara is also nothing like David.

uh.....Gillian is dead right?

it seems like it

[DxWill10]

Both my uncle and cousin are autistic. But their autism is so bad they are completely and utterly incapable of speech. My uncle is 40 and spends his days high fiving people over and over again (eventually he gets rough) and is probably the coke bonging champion of the world.

At family gatherings, if anyone leaves a cup of soda sitting out, it's gone in seconds. I've seen him down an entire 2 liter in 12 seconds.

My cousin is still young (about 14 ) and hasn't had much of a chance to develop any tendencies/

Neither of them is emotionless. It's obvious when both of them are happy and sad. Different people have different severity of it. 10 years ago, only the very bad ones were diagnosed. Now, even the slightest hint of autism and you are officially diagnosed. A kid I went to high school with had the worst social skills you've ever heard, but other than that, you wouldn't know he was autistic.

My point is that it's such a broad spectrum that it's difficult to accurately demonstrate the disease with 1 character in a video game. I hope Gillian is in ME3 (and is actually autistic which has already been established).
In terms of people being autistic and genius: That's the way it works. It's virtually non existent to find people with Rain man's intelligence without the autism or other similar mental handicaps.

The universe demands balance. That's why being mad and a genius is often two sides of the same coin. Anyway, I'm looking forward to discovering how they handle this subject in ME3.

[AlexXIV]

Well probably people don't give much thought to what they say. Especially writers of any sort of fiction. Sorry that you had to go through all this **** in your life, but that's not because people write bad fiction. It is because people are ****s in general. If they find weaknesses they will abuse them. No matter if you have some sort of special condition or not. Well luckily not all are like that. There is a small number of really decent folks and you're blessed if you get to know any.

[STARKILLER423]

I do agree with you that some media do indeed portray people with forms of autism poorly. I didn't really see anything wrong with David because some people's autism does manifest that way. Maybe its just the way I interpreted it, but the line you mentioned (the one about being able to talk to the geth) I saw it as that the basic form of the geth's communication was mathematical, and since he was a mathematical genius he was able to understand. But again that was the way I interpreted it.
And I didn't really see him as weak minded. I got that his brother was the one he looked up to and trusted him, and his brother took advantage of that.

I hope you do see this as me trying to dismiss your claims, because I am not. I am just telling my opinion of the character

[Arbiter156]

hey im autistic, i live a fairly normal life, no-one knows unless i tell them. what you have to understand about media is that they generally focus on the most severe forms of autism because it makes for more drama. dont let yourself get worked up over it (like your post suggests you are) its just the way media likes to tell stories, regardless of whether they are a late night show or a news report.

[aj2070]

I found the post informative. Admittedly, I did not take David Archer's condition in Overlord to be any more general rule than David Anderson being a "typical" Black person or African American for the PC crowd. Actually, I was more concerned that in the excerpt I read of Deception, the author grew Gillian out of her autism and for a lay person, it seemed far more than a phase. I was hoping for more of a story like the OP's where Gillian could fully function but the disorder was at least acknowledged.

[aj2070]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

OP made me cancel my pre-order.

... And there it is...

[ediskrad327]

DxWill10 wrote...
 I hope Gillian is in ME3

thanks to a toothbrush that will not be possible

[ediskrad327]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

OP made me cancel my pre-order.

clearly the way Bioware portrayed autism was to appeal to the call of duty crowd

[syllogi]

Thank you, OP for making this thread. My son was diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder, and went to school with children all along the autism spectrum. I find it depressing that the writers of Overlord and the Mass Effect books apparently did no research into the condition before using it as a plot device repeatedly, and also make the common mistake of equating it with savantism.

I love my son exactly the way he is, and while his ASD may lead to obstacles throughout his life, they also make him an exceptional and special person. If autism is going to be represented in media, I really wish an effort would be made to research the topic and educate people, instead of propagating myths.

[ediskrad327]

hopefully if autism is featured in ME3 they will portray it better than in Overlord

[ODST 3]

Dasher1010 wrote...

I think that Gillian will make an appearance in ME3. Also, Liara comes across like an aspie to me. Liara is also nothing like David.

I really doubt it, seeing as Bioware planned on her being dead in Dietz's wonderful book.

[Ghost_Nappa]

sponge56 wrote...
 

The issue with Deception is that she is said to have gotten over her autism, which is impossible. It can get better but you cant get over it

Iactually agree with that in terms of you can not get over it your autism. I too have Aspergers Syndrome but I learned about it late in life due to multiple reasons of parent's couldnt afford therapy and my doctor diagnosing me moved to New York because he could get better recognition there.
So that left a early teen me weaving through home and classes without proper help and slowly making myself socially comfortible in situations for a short time....except it was due to closing myself off emotionally to people just so I can seem fucntional in my day to day routine. Now IM in my midtwenties getting help with cognitive behaviorial therapy and a therapist helping me catch up what I stunted.

Yet when I see characters in being potrayed as super smart, socially ackward and have Asperger's all I can think of is this simple phrase. "Pfffffft right."

[Ryuzetsu]

I just played Overlord for the first time about three days ago, so the memory is still pretty fresh. From what I remember of David is that his mind was somewhat compartmentalized. Certain parts of his brain we low function others hyper. They said he was a Savant. What you may not realize OP is that there may be some in the gaming world, most likely younger players, who may not have been exposed to Aspergers, Autism or other mental irregularities. They may through the game, gain awareness and want to learn more. When the critical time comes and the choice is given at the end, it allows players to feel compassion when you remove him from Cerberus custody. If anything I think Bioware should be applauded for their effort in bringing this issue up in a medium like video gaming and allowing you to impact a character's life who has it. To my mind I can't think of any other game that would even dare to confront such issues, and that speaks well for Bioware.

[legion999]

syllogi wrote...

Thank you, OP for making this thread. My son was diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder, and went to school with children all along the autism spectrum. I find it depressing that the writers of Overlord and the Mass Effect books apparently did no research into the condition before using it as a plot device repeatedly, and also make the common mistake of equating it with savantism.

I love my son exactly the way he is, and while his ASD may lead to obstacles throughout his life, they also make him an exceptional and special person. If autism is going to be represented in media, I really wish an effort would be made to research the topic and educate people, instead of propagating myths.

From what I've read Gillian's autism wasn't a plot point and didn't give her any special abilities. I agree with your point on Overlord though.

EDIT: Though it seems David is actually a savant.

Modifié par legion999, 07 février 2012 - 06:32 .