246 réponses à ce sujet

[legion999]

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

Avenger
Vindicator
Revenant
Geth Pulse Rifle

[ediskrad327]

John Locke N7 wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Apparently, ME2 was somehow harder than ME1, and ME2 is crap because it has less overall weapons (Despite each weapon being different, as opposed to a slightly different looking clone)

no no no, ME2 was more BORING, not harder. and its crap because it has less overall weapons. your right about each weapon being different...... BUT THERE WAS ONLY 3. you can alteast say out of all the stats in the 68 par weapons in ME1 that atleast 20 felt better than the last.

you should be glad this was fixed

4 new guns isnt the best fix ever. and 3 DLC guns makes the think more than twice about how good the system will be

you have more guns that ME2, and they have stats, so i fail to see the problem

[daftPirate]

John Locke N7 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...
I always found ME1 to be a little more monotonous - in most of my playthroughs I was primarily a sniper and it never stopped being effective with most enemies to just take them out slowly and let my squad mates take out those that got too close. ME2 had me moving around and thinking a lot more.

I recommend trying playing ME1 on a new character on a hard difficulty. it really does force out the sweatness of that game if your not getting it on default. but again, it might now =0

I'd argue that you'll get the same experience playing ME2 with a new character at a higher difficulty. I haven't played GoW in any incarnation before, but I know the style, and don't see why people (seem to) find it so subpar. Cover, for example, is part of real battle. You'd never (nor should you) get away with dancing around in the middle of the battlefield shooting at people, and there was PLENTY of cover hugging int ME1. In both games, though, its part of tactics. If you're hugging the same rock/waste-high wall the hall fight, you're probably doing something wrong. You should be able to move around.

As for the weapon variety described in the OP, I strongly disagree. The stat increasing weapons, for one thing, are not so different from the research upgraded weapons of ME2. Secondly, the difference between the Avenger and Vindicator in ME2 isn't the same as between a class I and class V in ME1. Vindicator is not necessarily the better weapon. In ME2, for once, the weapons catered to play style. A run-and-gun strategy favored the Avenger, and precise take down's favored the Vindicator. I admit it's not better variety than ME1, but with later access to the Revenant and Geth Pulse Rifle adds more, plus the Mattock, which isn't a particularly costly buy.

I'm mostly just surprised that (apparent) harcore RPG fans are offended by the idea of variety. Isn't that what it's all about? I love loot (literally picking up weapons off enemies in ME3 ftw!), but I don't think ME1 got it quite right, and firing literally the same weapon(only made stronger by a stat) the whole game sounds really dull. Why not reflect the improvement of the weapon with a different mode of fire? A few more skins would've actually gone a long way, imho.

[AgitatedLemon]

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

Avenger
Vindicator
Collector
Revenant
Mattock
Geth

There's your four, plus 2 bonus.

[John Locke N7]

ediskrad327 wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

M-8 Avenger
M-76 Revenant
M-96 Mattock
Geth Pulse Rifle
Collector Assault Rifle
M-15 Vindicator

Geth Pulse Rifle - secret weapon, i can give this one to you, i though it was the DLC shotgun you get from the geth boss.
Collector Assault Rifle -  a weapon i can never have because i dont buy a certain version
M-15 Vindicator -  costs extra money.

besides the pulse rifle, counting DLC guns is scummy.

although i would buy a pack of 20 (non heavy) weapons that were got as loot for ME2 for 1 million dollars.... just to have it

Modifié par John Locke N7, 08 février 2012 - 07:44 .

[Yuoaman]

daftPirate wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...
I always found ME1 to be a little more monotonous - in most of my playthroughs I was primarily a sniper and it never stopped being effective with most enemies to just take them out slowly and let my squad mates take out those that got too close. ME2 had me moving around and thinking a lot more.

I recommend trying playing ME1 on a new character on a hard difficulty. it really does force out the sweatness of that game if your not getting it on default. but again, it might now =0

I'd argue that you'll get the same experience playing ME2 with a new character at a higher difficulty. I haven't played GoW in any incarnation before, but I know the style, and don't see why people (seem to) find it so subpar. Cover, for example, is part of real battle. You'd never (nor should you) get away with dancing around in the middle of the battlefield shooting at people, and there was PLENTY of cover hugging int ME1. In both games, though, its part of tactics. If you're hugging the same rock/waste-high wall the hall fight, you're probably doing something wrong. You should be able to move around.

As for the weapon variety described in the OP, I strongly disagree. The stat increasing weapons, for one thing, are not so different from the research upgraded weapons of ME2. Secondly, the difference between the Avenger and Vindicator in ME2 isn't the same as between a class I and class V in ME1. Vindicator is not necessarily the better weapon. In ME2, for once, the weapons catered to play style. A run-and-gun strategy favored the Avenger, and precise take down's favored the Vindicator. I admit it's not better variety than ME1, but with later access to the Revenant and Geth Pulse Rifle adds more, plus the Mattock, which isn't a particularly costly buy.

I'm mostly just surprised that (apparent) harcore RPG fans are offended by the idea of variety. Isn't that what it's all about? I love loot (literally picking up weapons off enemies in ME3 ftw!), but I don't think ME1 got it quite right, and firing literally the same weapon(only made stronger by a stat) the whole game sounds really dull. Why not reflect the improvement of the weapon with a different mode of fire? A few more skins would've actually gone a long way, imho.

Yeah, the loot system in ME1 was horrid - "OH LOOK, THIS WEAPON IS A VI INSTEAD OF A IV, MUST BE AWESOME."

[AgitatedLemon]

John Locke N7 wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

M-8 Avenger
M-76 Revenant
M-96 Mattock
Geth Pulse Rifle
Collector Assault Rifle
M-15 Vindicator

Geth Pulse Rifle - secret weapon, i can give this one to you, i though it was the DLC shotgun you get from the geth boss.
Collector Assault Rifle -  a weapon i can never have because i dont buy a certain version
M-15 Vindicator -  costs extra money.
besides the pulse rifle, counting DLC guns is scummy.

although i would buy a pack of 20 (non heavy) weapons that were got as loot for ME2 for 1 million dollars.... just to have it

So you bought Garrus' recruitment mission?

Because that's where the Vindicator is found.

[incinerator950]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

Avenger
Vindicator
Collector
Revenant
Mattock
Geth

There's your four, plus 2 bonus.

Avenger
Vindicator
Geth Pulse Rifle
Revenant (Light Machine Gun)
Collector Assault Rifle
Mattock Heavy Rifle

I've organized it a little better.

[ediskrad327]

John Locke N7 wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

M-8 Avenger
M-76 Revenant
M-96 Mattock
Geth Pulse Rifle
Collector Assault Rifle
M-15 Vindicator

Geth Pulse Rifle - secret weapon, i can give this one to you, i though it was the DLC shotgun you get from the geth boss.
Collector Assault Rifle -  a weapon i can never have because i dont buy a certain version
M-15 Vindicator -  costs extra money.

besides the pulse rifle, counting DLC guns is scummy.

although i would buy a pack of 20 (non heavy) weapons that were got as loot for ME2 for 1 million dollars.... just to have it

the vindicator doesn't cost anything extra :|

Modifié par ediskrad327, 08 février 2012 - 07:46 .

[Admoniter]

John Locke N7 wrote...
i will agree that they dint mesh PERFECTLY, and because of this it wouldnt instantly click for everyone. but meshing RPG elements into TPS gameplay the way they did it was revolutionary to me. A NEW GENRE almost. big leaps yadda yadda.

even though just meshing RPG elements with TPS elements doesnt sounds big, they really are. and when you have something so (not so) new, you cant just up and make it PERFECTLY polished.

but for ME2, i was hopeing for both elements to be polished to a shiny... shinyness.... but all they did was beaf the TPS elements and TAKE OUT the RPG elements.

It may have been new and unique but it was a far cry from functional. But here's my problem meshing genres is difficult especially when it comes to meshing shooters and rpgs and I can honestly say I have yet to find a game that does it perfectly. Simply due to how different they are; rpg mechanics relying on stats where as shooter mechanics operate on the skills of the player. And I doubt that it is possible to get it perfect as each genres mechanics will inevitably bleed into one another and weigh on eachother.

Fact is there needs to be some leeway, some give and take. The shooter elements suffered under ME1s gameplay, and as much as I enjoyed ME1 that lowered my overall enjoyement with the game. ME2 more or less did the same thing  with the rpg mechanics just in a different manner and lowered my enjoyement of the end product just the same.  My point being that both genres need some love, and it was sorely lacking for the shooter portion in ME1, thankfully the addition of locational damage, the removing of pointless weapon skills and the scrapping of ME1 style weapons was a godsend. Is there still room for improvement... of course the enemy a.i. was severely lacking and there was still problems with certain weapons being completely useless within their weapons class, but it was nowhere near as bad as what went on in ME1.

[Darth Malice113]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Darth Malice113 wrote...

Why is this not locked?

Because it's a legitimate question. You may not agree with the OP's assessment, but it's a legitimate point/topic.

Legitimate to whom? 

 Or do you think " AKA why mass effect 3 will be a stinker" is a good way to have a mature and rational discussion about weapons variety?  


   If so then flame away.

[AgitatedLemon]

incinerator950 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


And there were more than 3 weapons per category.

show me the 4th assault rifle...... im DIEING to see it

Avenger
Vindicator
Collector
Revenant
Mattock
Geth

There's your four, plus 2 bonus.

Avenger
Vindicator
Geth Pulse Rifle
Revenant (Light Machine Gun)
Collector Assault Rifle
Mattock Heavy Rifle

I've organized it a little better.

Should also probably add in the other weapon types as well.

The pistols and SMG's only have 3 of a kind, but that's because the 2 main types in their categories were covered by the stock.

Pistols (3)-

Predator
Carnifex
Phalanx

SMG's (3)-

Locust (Fully automatic)
Tempest (5-rnd burst)
Shuriken (3-rnd burst)

Shotguns (5)-

Katana
Eviscerator
Geth
Claymore
Scimitar

Sniper Rifles (4)-

Widow
Viper
Mantis
Incisor

Heavy Weapons (8)-

Avalanche
Firestorm
Collector beam
Cain
Grenade launcher
Missile launcher
Arc projector
Blackstorm

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 08 février 2012 - 07:50 .

[JakePT]

Mass Effect didn't have 200+ weapons, it had 4, with 2 skins for each. They all played exactly the same with only minor differences in stats.

If you want to treat minor differences in stats as a different weapon, then ME2 had loads. There are a large number of variants for each weapon, based on upgrades. M-8 Avenger, S-8 Avenger, X-8 Avenger, M-8a Avenger, X-8d Avenger etc.

[Darth Malice113]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Darth Malice113 wrote...

Legitimate to whom? 

 Or do you think " AKA why mass effect 3 will be a stinker" is a good way to have a mature and rational discussion about weapons variety?  


   If so then flame away.

I think OP is doing a far better job of having a mature discussion than going into a thread and asking "why is this not locked?" Without contributing anything. You don't have much room to talk.

 

I think I have plenty of room to talk.  Being as the purpose of this thread is to incite/bait/troll people into flaming eachother.

I think I'm on pretty solid ground.  I don't create threads just to get a rise out of people.  Maybee I should start.

[Yuoaman]

Darth Malice113 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Darth Malice113 wrote...

Legitimate to whom? 

 Or do you think " AKA why mass effect 3 will be a stinker" is a good way to have a mature and rational discussion about weapons variety?  


   If so then flame away.

I think OP is doing a far better job of having a mature discussion than going into a thread and asking "why is this not locked?" Without contributing anything. You don't have much room to talk.

 

I think I have plenty of room to talk.  Being as the purpose of this thread is to incite/bait/troll people into flaming eachother.

I think I'm on pretty solid ground.  I don't create threads just to get a rise out of people.  Maybee I should start.

I don't think that was the purpose of this thread - though the title is probably worded badly.

[John Locke N7]

daftPirate wrote...

I'd argue that you'll get the same experience playing ME2 with a new character at a higher difficulty. I haven't played GoW in any incarnation before, but I know the style, and don't see why people (seem to) find it so subpar. Cover, for example, is part of real battle. You'd never (nor should you) get away with dancing around in the middle of the battlefield shooting at people, and there was PLENTY of cover hugging int ME1. In both games, though, its part of tactics. If you're hugging the same rock/waste-high wall the hall fight, you're probably doing something wrong. You should be able to move around.

As for the weapon variety described in the OP, I strongly disagree. The stat increasing weapons, for one thing, are not so different from the research upgraded weapons of ME2. Secondly, the difference between the Avenger and Vindicator in ME2 isn't the same as between a class I and class V in ME1. Vindicator is not necessarily the better weapon. In ME2, for once, the weapons catered to play style. A run-and-gun strategy favored the Avenger, and precise take down's favored the Vindicator. I admit it's not better variety than ME1, but with later access to the Revenant and Geth Pulse Rifle adds more, plus the Mattock, which isn't a particularly costly buy.

I'm mostly just surprised that (apparent) harcore RPG fans are offended by the idea of variety. Isn't that what it's all about? I love loot (literally picking up weapons off enemies in ME3 ftw!), but I don't think ME1 got it quite right, and firing literally the same weapon(only made stronger by a stat) the whole game sounds really dull. Why not reflect the improvement of the weapon with a different mode of fire? A few more skins would've actually gone a long way, imho.

Paragraph 1 =0 - While i hate just dismissing an entire arguement. the argument was based on realism. just because something unrealistic doesnt mean.... well anything at all when it comes to video games.

P2 - i wont disagree that the research from the ship was SIMILAIR to the (getting more weapons with better stats) of ME1. and i wont say that the way you got loot in ME1 is slick and clean. so there both a little broken. but getting only 4 upgrades that do very little, and SCANNING PLANETS!!!! IMO is far worse.

P2- part 2 - the weapons system in ME2 made it great for run in gun. sure. but not ANY other gameplay style. in ME1 the powers you got from a lack of weapons were powerfull. I think most people agree the revenant was junk.
and again, paying cash for the game to work fundamentaly better doesnt sit well with me.

p3 - ME1 dint get it perfect. but for me it was new enough for my brain to love it as if it was a perfectly polished game in a established genre variety is AWESOME! and if all the weapons in ME1 looked and sounded different you bet your sweat twin cans that would be a HUGE improvement. but ME2 had the SAME 2 WEAPON SKINS. and instead of different colors, just 2 guns....... with acception of ONE new gun, the revenant.

if ME2 had even 10 more guns as special and different as the revenant that you got via loot or earned in an progressive way, it would have been HUNDREDS of times better.

which to me is why i think ME3 will just throw you a gun because your at this level, and it will work better more along the lines of a new gun in.... hell, DOOM.

[Alraiis]

Weapon selection in ME1:
"Oh, this gun does 215 damage instead of 186. Time to junk the old model."

Weapon selection in ME2:
"Hm... this gun is a lot more accurate, but the ammo capacity and rate of fire are lower than this other one... well, this third one is powerful, but I'd have to get in closer... I wonder which one I should use?"

Sorry if that doesn't work for you, but I know which method I prefer.

Modifié par Alraiis, 08 février 2012 - 08:02 .

[incinerator950]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Darth Malice113 wrote...

Legitimate to whom? 

 Or do you think " AKA why mass effect 3 will be a stinker" is a good way to have a mature and rational discussion about weapons variety?  


   If so then flame away.

I think OP is doing a far better job of having a mature discussion than going into a thread and asking "why is this not locked?" Without contributing anything. You don't have much room to talk.

Why isn't this locked?

There, I said it and I contributed to the discussion earlier.

[SirEtchwart]

Alraiis wrote...

Weapon selection in ME1:
"Oh, this gun does 215 damage instead of 186. Time to junk the old model."

Weapon selection in ME2:
"Hm... this gun is a lot more accurate, but the ammo capacity and rate of fire are lower than this other one... well, this third one is powerful, but I'd have to get in closer... I wonder which one I should use?"

Sorry if that doesn't work for you, but I know which method I prefer.

This. A thousand times this.

[John Locke N7]

Admoniter wrote...

It [ME1] may have been new and unique but it was a far cry from functional.

I was able (and still am) to have everything that ME1 function. not perfectly, but i wouldnt say a "far cry from functional".

what scares me about ME3 is that in ME2, they made bad decisions to try to get it to be functional. HORRIBLE decisions.
and i know you agree with me that ME2 isnt functional

were i think we differ (besides the obvious 'i like mass effect 1 alot') is that i think the direction ME1 was taking is the right DIRECTION. and that ME2s direction came out of NOWARE.

unless you think that also idk....

[AlanC9]

DayusMakhina wrote...

ME1 Insanity was a cakewalk. ME2 Insanity was also a cakewalk, just slightly less of a cakewalk.

Let's not overstate ME2's easiness. ME2 was a lot better than ME1 in this regard.