237 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

IMO, not really just because legion said so but rather due to my firm belief in the motto "never start a fight but always finish it"
If they turn out to try and kill us i'd defend myself and fight but only if there was no other way.

[LetMeW1n]

And even if they don't have the "morals" you speak of, do you think it's within our ethics or "morals" to wipe them out..? Or the bears, in your analogy. By that "survival of the fittest" example humans are probably as bad as the geth you make them out to be. Besides, planning to start a destructive war with the geth from silly "educated guesses"..? O_O

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 08 février 2012 - 01:56 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Some may be forgetting the reason for the Dyson sphere in the first place. To reach a higher level of consciousness. Something like a true consciousness. Really, not sure what their big deal is with getting dumber away from each other. I know plenty of people who get dumber the CLOSER they get to people.

But jokes aside, as the Geth continue to evolve and become more individualized platforms it is very possible for them to play a role in the galaxy.

[Slayer299]

Kasen13 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

The Geth do not care about organics any, so why would they want to join the Council/have an embassy or anything along those lines OP? The claim they only want to build their Dyson sphere upload themselves and well...they don't know what happens after that and that actually worries me a lot.

But the Geth aren't peaceful, fluffy-bunnies we can just trust....because Legion "said so".

And any organic species is?

Never said we were, but too many people seem to just assign 'gentle, misunderstood and too intelligent to want to kill' to the Geth and the Geth have shown themselves more than willing to kill organics on sight. When was the last time a stranger walked up to you and started shooting? You can't say the same about the Geth however.

[Slayer299]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Some may be forgetting the reason for the Dyson sphere in the first place. To reach a higher level of consciousness. Something like a true consciousness. Really, not sure what their big deal is with getting dumber away from each other. I know plenty of people who get dumber the CLOSER they get to people.

But jokes aside, as the Geth continue to evolve and become more individualized platforms it is very possible for them to play a role in the galaxy.

I don't see the Geth as becoming more individualized platforms, with Legion he was designed that way so he could operate far away from Geth space and at a higher intelligence level since as we know the average Geth platform is no more intelligent than a varren when it is alone.

The other 99% of Geth platforms will not be doing what Legion has anytime soon though.

[nightcobra]

Shepard:how many strangers come up to kill me a day?
...3, no 4.

[Slayer299]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Shepard:how many strangers come up to kill me a day?
...3, no 4.

LOL

[Kasen]

Slayer299 wrote...

Kasen13 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

The Geth do not care about organics any, so why would they want to join the Council/have an embassy or anything along those lines OP? The claim they only want to build their Dyson sphere upload themselves and well...they don't know what happens after that and that actually worries me a lot.

But the Geth aren't peaceful, fluffy-bunnies we can just trust....because Legion "said so".

And any organic species is?

Never said we were, but too many people seem to just assign 'gentle, misunderstood and too intelligent to want to kill' to the Geth and the Geth have shown themselves more than willing to kill organics on sight. When was the last time a stranger walked up to you and started shooting? You can't say the same about the Geth however.

Happens all the time in the real world... I could start listing off the countries where that very thing is going on in a massive scale right this moment (and in many cases for far less reason than the Geth have), but it'd be a very, very long list.

[LetMeW1n]

And if your somehow "wrong". Just planning to wipe them out will ruin potentially better relations with the geth and make them see organics as a threat. Frankly.. There is no way(for us) of knowing what to do with the geth.

Anyway, I do hold the view that the geth are still "envolving" and can be educated. Even physcopaths can be "manipulated" themselves to behave properly, but we don't bother cos we do not have to fight a war with them. An example gone wrong will be the reapers, but that isn't representative of all, I think.

Embassy and ambassador is a bit far-fetched, though

EDIT: lol sorry for picking arguments for no reason

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 08 février 2012 - 02:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

andy69156915 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All AI must be destroyed. All of it. No exceptions...

Well aren't you just a cute little genocidal maniac...

You cannot kill what does not truly live.

[Icinix]

Luc0s wrote...

Icinix wrote...

You also don't have the ability to communicate your intention to a bear. You do to a geth.

No we don't. The geth know very well that we can lie about our intentions. 

And even if we could explain our intentions to a geth, we don't get the chance. The geth have killed ALL organic life that ever came near them (with Shepard and Legion being the sole exception).

Don't really blame them - That was their first education in intelligence. But like Leigion and Shepard, boundaries are coming down - over time more boundaries will fall.

Icinix wrote...

Hopefully by that stage if they're that intelligent to pose a threat, then they can be reasoned with - and surely a species as intelligent as the noble bear would see the benefit in sharing our world.

Yeah right.

Okay, replace "bear" for "chimpanzee". Now go watch Planet of The Apes and see how you're wrong.

Anyway, the point is, that the geth cannot be reasoned with. The geth will only reason with you if they think you're anything of value to them.

First : Planet of the Apes? Seriously?
Second: Reasoning + Value = Diplomacy. Find common ground, even if its as something as "Hey, you have this planet rich in X - we know you like this material Y - we happen to have a juicy planet full of Y."

Icinix wrote...

We'd be talking about a true plague. Most likely, hunting on bears will become legal and bear hunting will be encouraged. Eventually, we will have to destroy the bears if we want to keep our dominant position on our planet.

Only if you were in charge.

Nope. We actually have a scale on which we measure whether a species is a plague or not. If a species here on earth become too numerous too quickly that they threaten humanity, they're considered a plague and have to be dealt with.

..and at what point do Humans have the right to determine when another race can be considered a plague? And WHY do humans have the right? A plague incidentally, that was zipping through space before we'd activated our first Mass Relay? A plague that has kept to itself without spreading, a plague that instead of declaring war sends warnings to leave us alone? Thats a frightened child - not a plague.

Icinix wrote...

Did - the only threat in there is still humanity and its violent tendencies to assume everyone and everything is out to get them.

*sigh*

Have you read this article too? [link]

If you've read that too and you're still not willing to understand why the geth are dangerous, then I simply give up.

That article looks like it was written by someone with the human tendency to assume everyone and everything is out to get them. Quick, we don't understand something, there isn't any evidence to suggest what will happen, quick, nuke it.

But...if the attitude towards Geth is one of fear and the readiness to cause genocide on a race out of a lack of understanding or evidence of what MIGHT happen...then damn.

Life should be given a change to grow and develop. Just because its not a human life doesn't make it any less valuable. All I see are a lot of arguments based on fear of the unknown - based on an assumption that something alien, would behave like humans if the roles were reversed.
I think thats more of a reflection on humanities insecurities and fears than anything relating to the Geth.

But hey - you're right - we're not going to agree on this. But thats ok - we've clearly morally developed along different paths.

Modifié par Icinix, 08 février 2012 - 02:15 .

[Kasen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All AI must be destroyed. All of it. No exceptions...

Well aren't you just a cute little genocidal maniac...

You cannot kill what does not truly live.

That sounds an awful lot like the same kind of reasoning that's been used to justify genocide for centuries.

[LetMeW1n]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All AI must be destroyed. All of it. No exceptions...

Well aren't you just a cute little genocidal maniac...

You cannot kill what does not truly live.

Right. I think AI can still serve a purpose though.

Like the geth. They'll make pretty good slaves Do you destroy your toasters too..?

[nightcobra]

what do you consider truly "alive" then? To me, once their "software" is equivalent to an organic brain then i consider it "alive" but still a machine as we are also organic machines in a way. That's what i believe.

[Icinix]

Luc0s wrote...

@Icinix:

Seems you didn't understand anything from the article at all.

Did you even read it? The article explained perfectly well why A.I.s are dangerous.

From the perspective of someone terrified of the unknown.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kasen13 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You cannot kill what does not truly live.

That sounds an awful lot like the same kind of reasoning that's been used to justify genocide for centuries.

See this rock? I postulate that is alive!
How dare you smash it you genocidal maniac!!!

Seirously, the is downright pointelss. There has to be a line between living and non-living. You draw it wherever you like - I don't care really.

But the Geth are not truly aline. No AI is.
AI, as presented in ME is fantasy. AI, by it's very nature is dangerous.

All AI should be destroyed. All of it. EDI included. If I had the choice, I'd fry her the second I stepped on Normandy Mk2.

All of this faux moral dillemas about "non-human things wanting to be human" is slowly starting to irritate me.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Icinix wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

@Icinix:

Seems you didn't understand anything from the article at all.

Did you even read it? The article explained perfectly well why A.I.s are dangerous.

From the perspective of someone terrified of the unknown.

Or fro mthe perspective of someone who knows WTF they're talking about.
I've set to see YOUR degree in artifical intelligence.

[Icinix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All of this faux moral dillemas about "non-human things wanting to be human" is slowly starting to irritate me.

Who the hell said the Geth wanted to be Human?

I'm pretty sure they just want to be Geth.

[nightcobra]

or the perspective from someone of this time instead from the perspective of somene from 100 or so years in the future with the additional knowledge of varied alien cultures and their technologies.

[DJBare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You cannot kill what does not truly live.

Interesting, how do you define true life?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Icinix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All of this faux moral dillemas about "non-human things wanting to be human" is slowly starting to irritate me.

Who the hell said the Geth wanted to be Human?

I'm pretty sure they just want to be Geth.

Maybe I'm phrasing it wrong... I mean AI begin truly sentient and all those petty tricks to make us care or believe.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DJBare wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You cannot kill what does not truly live.

Interesting, how do you define true life?

Not aritificial.
I don't bawl when I delete virus or a file from my HD. I'm not shedding any tears for the geth either.

[Kasen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kasen13 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You cannot kill what does not truly live.

That sounds an awful lot like the same kind of reasoning that's been used to justify genocide for centuries.

See this rock? I postulate that is alive!
How dare you smash it you genocidal maniac!!!

Seirously, the is downright pointelss. There has to be a line between living and non-living. You draw it wherever you like - I don't care really.

But the Geth are not truly aline. No AI is.
AI, as presented in ME is fantasy. AI, by it's very nature is dangerous.

All AI should be destroyed. All of it. EDI included. If I had the choice, I'd fry her the second I stepped on Normandy Mk2.

All of this faux moral dillemas about "non-human things wanting to be human" is slowly starting to irritate me.

And I would argue that LIFE "by it's very nature" is dangerous. You can't just wipe something out because it might be a danger. In fact, what you are suggesting is the exact thing that led the Geth to become hostile in the first place! Of course they're going to be violent when faced with extinction.

And for the record, I don't believe there's anything "faux" about it.

[Icinix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

@Icinix:

Seems you didn't understand anything from the article at all.

Did you even read it? The article explained perfectly well why A.I.s are dangerous.

From the perspective of someone terrified of the unknown.

Or fro mthe perspective of someone who knows WTF they're talking about.
I've set to see YOUR degree in artifical intelligence.

The article is about the risks of humans creating human built intelligences and human morals. Not a fictional race of intelligent machines created by another race before humans were part of a galactic community.

Regardless, its a case of different morals, different perspectives.

Where the geth genociders see a race that isn't human and doesn't have the capacity to be human (or worse - the capacity to be HUMAN if genocide is a concern), so should be destroyed.

Pro-geth perspective is its a race of geth, pushing themselves to evolve and become masters of their own destiny.

But I suppose because our morals don't align with yours...that makes us a threat? Right?