161 réponses à ce sujet

[GuardianAngel470]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Somebody get me a universal translator so I can make sense of what this person is saying!

Figure it out yourself. He's partially learned your language, the least you can do try and understand his perfectly legitimate point.

[XenoAlbedo]

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

Modifié par XenoAlbedo, 10 février 2012 - 07:09 .

[Python199]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Python199 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

After 400-500 thousands years all resourses will be used. They not unlimited. I think, Reapers helping save systems and planets from organic parasites like us.

You are vastly underestimating the sheer size of the galaxy.

And you vastly underestimating the speed of populations growth. For 400 - 500 thousands years we field the whole Galaxy. Every system, every planet will be drained, they turn into lifeness rocks. Then war is starts. All organic life will be vanished forever. But if Reapers will proceed doing the Cycle - organic life will be exist, without suffer from the lack of resources. But people like Shepard don't understand that - or don't want to. If Shepard stop Reapers, he will guilty in doom all organic life in the slow and painful death with no chance to be reborn.

Keep in mind two things: First, according to the Codex, the Citadel (and all other advanced species in the galaxy) have only explored about 1% of the galaxy.

Second, as civilizations advance, population growth declines. Look at the average third world country. In those countries, parents normally have 5+ children in their lifetimes, usually significantly higher. Then look at the US or any other western society. The norm hovers around 2.5 children.

In economics, scholars have largely debunked Thomas Hobbes' and Thomas Malthus' hypotheses. It's a consistent trend that as a society advances, population growth declines. So no, I think you're the one overestimating population growth.

Wait, how do you have two and a half children?

It's a humorous statistical approximation. I think it's actually closer to 2.78 or something bizarre like that.

EDIT: I think MAD TV or SNL did a skit about it. I'm positive Top Gear had a joke about it.

Ah,I thought it was like that one Family guy joke about Two and a half men where its two men and a screaming man with only a torso and above.

[GuardianAngel470]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

The point was he was having a hard time rationalizing his characters actions. Some people aren't terribly fond of nonchalantly mowing down hundreds of mooks and blowing up 300,000 civilians. To him killing is killing and so he wasn't making the self defense connection. He saw Shepard as the aggressor which, in many cases, he was.

Its not a particularly discussed moral dilemna among gamers since its so established and untouchable that none of us think twice about it. He did, simple as that.

[Gaidukk]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

Good word "innocent". I tell you a truth - there is no innocent people. They not existing. And why this people fired first? Not because Shep go to the private areas, with heavy guardians, uh? He started conflicts and this is why people shoot him. He guilty in they deaths. Who knows, maybe this mercs in future will save a lifes or helping other people. But Shep didn't give them a chance to make a good things.
And about few thousands deaths. Yes, it's better... until one of this "sacrifising lambs" be a human you love.

[Gaidukk]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

The point was he was having a hard time rationalizing his characters actions. Some people aren't terribly fond of nonchalantly mowing down hundreds of mooks and blowing up 300,000 civilians. To him killing is killing and so he wasn't making the self defense connection. He saw Shepard as the aggressor which, in many cases, he was.

Its not a particularly discussed moral dilemna among gamers since its so established and untouchable that none of us think twice about it. He did, simple as that.

Thanks for articulated my point of view.  

[GuardianAngel470]

Gaidukk wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

The point was he was having a hard time rationalizing his characters actions. Some people aren't terribly fond of nonchalantly mowing down hundreds of mooks and blowing up 300,000 civilians. To him killing is killing and so he wasn't making the self defense connection. He saw Shepard as the aggressor which, in many cases, he was.

Its not a particularly discussed moral dilemna among gamers since its so established and untouchable that none of us think twice about it. He did, simple as that.

Thanks for articulated my point of view.  

No problem, it's what I'm here for.

[XenoAlbedo]

Gaidukk wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

Good word "innocent". I tell you a truth - there is no innocent people. They not existing. And why this people fired first? Not because Shep go to the private areas, with heavy guardians, uh? He started conflicts and this is why people shoot him. He guilty in they deaths. Who knows, maybe this mercs in future will save a lifes or helping other people. But Shep didn't give them a chance to make a good things.
And about few thousands deaths. Yes, it's better... until one of this "sacrifising lambs" be a human you love.

Oh God you're one of those kinds of people. The kind that thinks one wrong doing makes somebody not innocent. My definition of innocent is simply somebody who isn't racist, doesn't murder without extremely good reason, etc. Do you see soldiers in real life stopping to be sad over every terrorist they kill? No, that is how soldiers are trained. They do have remorse but do not show it all the time, which is undoubtably what Shepard does. If one of my loved ones was sacrificed, yes I would be sad, but then I would realise that if he/she hadn't died, I and everyone else could be dead too.

[Gaidukk]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

I found no good point. He never killed any innocents, or at least not in my game, and the people he did kill fired first. Also, isn't a few thousand deaths better than the entire galaxy being wiped out?

Good word "innocent". I tell you a truth - there is no innocent people. They not existing. And why this people fired first? Not because Shep go to the private areas, with heavy guardians, uh? He started conflicts and this is why people shoot him. He guilty in they deaths. Who knows, maybe this mercs in future will save a lifes or helping other people. But Shep didn't give them a chance to make a good things.
And about few thousands deaths. Yes, it's better... until one of this "sacrifising lambs" be a human you love.

Oh God you're one of those kinds of people. The kind that thinks one wrong doing makes somebody not innocent. My definition of innocent is simply somebody who isn't racist, doesn't murder without extremely good reason, etc. Do you see soldiers in real life stopping to be sad over every terrorist they kill? No, that is how soldiers are trained. They do have remorse but do not show it all the time, which is undoubtably what Shepard does. If one of my loved ones was sacrificed, yes I would be sad, but then I would realise that if he/she hadn't died, I and everyone else could be dead too.

You really so naive, or just pretend? I open your eyes - the only different between "fighters for freedom" and terrorists - the order In which they killed. That's all . And murder - is murder, no matter, who killed. And Shepard just like terrorist - killing hundreeds of people without blink.
And about death people who you love - like saying in my country - easy said, hard to do. It's just a word's nothing more.

[GnusmasTHX]

"thrillions" sounds hilarious.

[knightnblu]

I disagree with the OP's position, but I understand it. For me, what gives Shepard the right to do what he does is that it is being done for the greater good. In the first game, we had to stop Saren who was attempting to bring about the deaths of every being in the galaxy. We killed a lot of synthetics and not too many organics.
 
In ME2, we killed a lot more organics and set a chain of events in motion that claimed the lives of more than 300,000 people. The sad truth of the matter is that they were dead regardless of Shepard's actions. Had the Reapers arrived they would die. If Shepard blows the relay they will die. No matter what Shepard did the lives on that planet were over.
 
Did I feel bad about that? Yes. Did I hesitate to press the button after doing the calculus? No. If Shepard had done nothing then billions more would have been sacrificed and if we lost, then all would have been sacrificed. The decision then becomes taking the lesser of two evils.
 
In ME3 we will be called to do a lot more killing and our actions will likely decide the fates of entire civilizations. Who gave us the right to make those decisions? Nobody. But if we do not make them then all is lost. Shepard is being pulled from pillar to post by circumstances. Shepard is a character that is trying their level best to do the right thing and being forced into some extremely difficult and morally ambiguous choices. Choices that cannot be ignored lest they spell the doom of all.
 
If Shepard were to lay down that burden, then all would perish. It is as simple as that. In that sense, he is backed against a wall with the Reapers facing him. He has no place to run and cannot surrender unless he is willing to consign all to oblivion. Therefore, it is a bitter irony that he must be more than human in order to accomplish the saving of as many lives as he can and to do this he must make choices that no man has ever been required to make.
 
Because there are those who would grease the wheels of the galaxy's destruction, they must be dealt with. That means killing them. Some are indoctrinated, innocents who would never oppose Shepard on moral grounds, but who are given no other option by the Reapers. Some are actively working with the Reapers in the false hope that they will be spared only to end as their fellows. Either way, they must die lest they drag us into the abyss.
 
You ask what gives Shepard the right, to which I answer "nothing." I ask, what else is there to do? And the only answer to that question that I can discern is "nothing." That does not make Shepard either good or evil, but merely a man who is caught betwixt and between in a very difficult and trying time and in the end, all he can do is his best.

[Gaidukk]

knightnblu wrote...

I disagree with the OP's position, but I understand it. For me, what gives Shepard the right to do what he does is that it is being done for the greater good. In the first game, we had to stop Saren who was attempting to bring about the deaths of every being in the galaxy. We killed a lot of synthetics and not too many organics.
 
In ME2, we killed a lot more organics and set a chain of events in motion that claimed the lives of more than 300,000 people. The sad truth of the matter is that they were dead regardless of Shepard's actions. Had the Reapers arrived they would die. If Shepard blows the relay they will die. No matter what Shepard did the lives on that planet were over.
 
Did I feel bad about that? Yes. Did I hesitate to press the button after doing the calculus? No. If Shepard had done nothing then billions more would have been sacrificed and if we lost, then all would have been sacrificed. The decision then becomes taking the lesser of two evils.
 
In ME3 we will be called to do a lot more killing and our actions will likely decide the fates of entire civilizations. Who gave us the right to make those decisions? Nobody. But if we do not make them then all is lost. Shepard is being pulled from pillar to post by circumstances. Shepard is a character that is trying their level best to do the right thing and being forced into some extremely difficult and morally ambiguous choices. Choices that cannot be ignored lest they spell the doom of all.
 
If Shepard were to lay down that burden, then all would perish. It is as simple as that. In that sense, he is backed against a wall with the Reapers facing him. He has no place to run and cannot surrender unless he is willing to consign all to oblivion. Therefore, it is a bitter irony that he must be more than human in order to accomplish the saving of as many lives as he can and to do this he must make choices that no man has ever been required to make.
 
Because there are those who would grease the wheels of the galaxy's destruction, they must be dealt with. That means killing them. Some are indoctrinated, innocents who would never oppose Shepard on moral grounds, but who are given no other option by the Reapers. Some are actively working with the Reapers in the false hope that they will be spared only to end as their fellows. Either way, they must die lest they drag us into the abyss.
 
You ask what gives Shepard the right, to which I answer "nothing." I ask, what else is there to do? And the only answer to that question that I can discern is "nothing." That does not make Shepard either good or evil, but merely a man who is caught betwixt and between in a very difficult and trying time and in the end, all he can do is his best.

You ask what else is there to do? I answer - let Reapers make the Cycle. This makes a several good effects such as:
1) Shepard won't kill more people - they will live.
2)Organic life will be reborn.
3)Natural resources will be safe.
I think this will be a good decision.
And about a killing a 300.000 innocent people (with kids and old people).  Of course this is right desicion. Because Shepard kill they for the name of Freedom and Justice, so nobody cares how much and all beileve he a Hero even though he is mass murderer. And Reapers killed for unknow reason, so it make them bad. Simple logic for Western mentality.

Modifié par Gaidukk, 13 février 2012 - 02:18 .

[LetMeW1n]

Right. I think you're confusing some fundamental concept meanings here. Like "mass murderer", "hero", "freedom and justice" etc..

Nvm... Let me offer a non-western perspective. Do you want to f**king die for some re-hashed reason that's not even explained to you?(or even a dumbed down explanation if it's really "complex") Then you talk about Shepard killing 300,000 people. What, they'll die soon enough anyway when the old machines come through that relay... Unless somehow you think they'll live, huh?

Really, no one can persuade you from your theories and ideologies if you don't let them.. Not on the internet, of course. Doesn't matter. Your pro-life approach is nice, but that reaper harvesting=good is really contradictory, and flawed. Still wondering if this is just a troll-for-fun thread. o_o

EDIT: think I'm going crazy. ^that wasn't even an argument. Maybe I should avoid reading up forums on stuff I'm concerned about for a while

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 13 février 2012 - 02:56 .

[Gaidukk]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Right. I think you're confusing some fundamental concept meanings here. Like "mass murderer", "hero", "freedom and justice" etc..

Nvm... Let me offer a non-western perspective. Do you want to f**king die for some re-hashed reason that's not even explained to you..?(or even a dumbed down explanation if it's really "complex") Then you talk about Shepard killing 300,000 people. What, they'll die soon enough anyway when the old machines come through that relay... Unless somehow you think they'll live, huh?

Really, no one can persuade you from your theories and ideologies if you don't let them.. Not on the internet, of course. Doesn't matter. Your pro-life approach is nice, but that reaper harvesting=good is really contradictory, and flawed. Still wondering if this is just a troll-for-fun thread. o_o

No,no,no,no,no. This isn't a "troll-for-fun thread". This is serious thread. Now, the answers:
1)What you offer is a western perspective. I don't want to be kiled by a mass-murderer ok? I want to live.
2)This is not pro-life approach, this is common sense. 
3)Noy you, noy me didn't know die they soon or not. All you can see - a sumbur video. Maybe they live a day, maybe a week. But Shepard don't let them. This is I try to tell. But I hard to do it. 

[LetMeW1n]

Yeah I know, it's a western perspective, kind of. Spent too much time on western media anyway. But seriously. What you appear to be saying is that some supposed higher cause(the reaper cause) to die for which also entails continued genocide is better than an much more well-understood evil(mass-killing by a driven individual) performed by a fictional character(commander shepard) written and based upon by real life humans, of which the shepard's actions have already being defended by many other fellow human beings right here on this very thread based on a variety of arguments, most notably one of necessity and extraordinary circumstances...

O_o Sorry about that.

Your common sense is not really that common, sorry. We're all humans, err, right..? You just have a stronger opinion. For all I know, you're a very good troll or I'm a fool. No.. Just no.. Not thinking straight. I say good night, lmao

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 13 février 2012 - 03:27 .

[Gaidukk]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Yeah I know, it's a western perspective, kind of. Spent too much time on western media anyway. But seriously. What you appear to be saying is that some supposed higher cause(the reaper cause) to die for which also entails continued genocide is better than an much more well-understood evil(mass-killing by a driven individual) performed by a fictional character(commander shepard) written and based upon by real life humans, of which the shepard's actions have already being defended by many other fellow human beings right here on this very thread based on a variety of arguments, most notably one of necessity and extraordinary circumstances...

O_o Sorry about that.

Your common sense is not really that common, sorry. We're all humans, err, right..? You just have a stronger opinion. For all I know, you're a very good troll or I'm a fool. No.. Just no.. Not thinking straight. I say good night, lmao

Многа букоф ниачём
And seriously. Yes I tried to say what nobody had right to killing thousnds and be hero. And also  I tried to say what Reapers like a keepers. They destroy parasites (us) when they are too much to save a systems and planets from depletion. They give us a chance to reborn. But Shepard and people like him don't understand that.

[CrazyCatDude]

Gaidukk wrote...

1. Sorry for my bad english, I'm russian and for me hard to write so many words.
2. To DarkPsylocke26  - I don't saying that gangs are good, I just saying that Shepard not better than thouse. He killed people. This is one of the worst crimes.
3. To Golden Owl - yeah, right.. and in the DLC about Kasumi he shoot those guards in the room with password because they shoot to him with their back?
4. To redbaron76  - Yes - if Reapers killed people for no apparent reason this is bad; If Shep killing people for Freedom and Justice - nobody cares how much.
5. To ediskrad327 - Imagine if Reapers will be defeaded - If organic life in Galaxy not be destroyed, for several thousand years we filled the Milky Way (This is our Galaxy), through the 500 thousand years from the planets, which colonized people remain lifeless stones like the Earth in 2183. We use all the resources of the galaxy and begin the war, then we will destroy ourselves. Only here on the planets and the systems will not be any-thing. Planets and systems sufferirreparable damage. And Reaper slowing the our destruction development. Not for nothing do they say - "We will bring you to salvation through destruction." They have seen thousands of times, the consequences of uncontrolled development of organic life.

The answer to the question you ask is grounded in a person's moral system.  Simply put, "is killing always wrong?"  Some people would say yes.  In my opinion, those people are idiots.  Killing in self defense, or in defense of others is a basic, fundemental right.  If someone points a gun at you, or in some one threatens your life, you have the right to protect yourself.  Same for those around you.  In regards to Mass Effect, you have to remember that Shepard was specifically tasks with protecting the Council and citizens of council space as a whole.  In effect, the government asked Shepard to go out and arrest, or if necessary, kill the "bad" people.  That is, the people who would hurt other people.  Shepard doesn't simply have the right to decide if a person is good or bad, he has a responsibility to make that decision.

What you are saying is that there is no moral difference between the police officer who guns down a murderer, and a murderer who guns down an innocent civilian.  That's simply not the case.

[Gaidukk]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

1. Sorry for my bad english, I'm russian and for me hard to write so many words.
2. To DarkPsylocke26  - I don't saying that gangs are good, I just saying that Shepard not better than thouse. He killed people. This is one of the worst crimes.
3. To Golden Owl - yeah, right.. and in the DLC about Kasumi he shoot those guards in the room with password because they shoot to him with their back?
4. To redbaron76  - Yes - if Reapers killed people for no apparent reason this is bad; If Shep killing people for Freedom and Justice - nobody cares how much.
5. To ediskrad327 - Imagine if Reapers will be defeaded - If organic life in Galaxy not be destroyed, for several thousand years we filled the Milky Way (This is our Galaxy), through the 500 thousand years from the planets, which colonized people remain lifeless stones like the Earth in 2183. We use all the resources of the galaxy and begin the war, then we will destroy ourselves. Only here on the planets and the systems will not be any-thing. Planets and systems sufferirreparable damage. And Reaper slowing the our destruction development. Not for nothing do they say - "We will bring you to salvation through destruction." They have seen thousands of times, the consequences of uncontrolled development of organic life.

The answer to the question you ask is grounded in a person's moral system.  Simply put, "is killing always wrong?"  Some people would say yes.  In my opinion, those people are idiots.  Killing in self defense, or in defense of others is a basic, fundemental right.  If someone points a gun at you, or in some one threatens your life, you have the right to protect yourself.  Same for those around you.  In regards to Mass Effect, you have to remember that Shepard was specifically tasks with protecting the Council and citizens of council space as a whole.  In effect, the government asked Shepard to go out and arrest, or if necessary, kill the "bad" people.  That is, the people who would hurt other people.  Shepard doesn't simply have the right to decide if a person is good or bad, he has a responsibility to make that decision.

What you are saying is that there is no moral difference between the police officer who guns down a murderer, and a murderer who guns down an innocent civilian.  That's simply not the case.

Aha, Shepard kill the guardians in the DLC Kasumi Stolen Memories just because they tried to shoot him with their back? Nice one. And about a self-defence - nobody has a right to take alife. Nobody. Defed youself not with a gun, but with a baloon with gas, or with shocker and all be allright. But Shepard not the case. He not selfdefens. He kills a people with cold-blood, without blink. He just slaughtered them. 

[LetMeW1n]

Lol I'm still here. Now you're dwelling into speculation and jumping into foced conclusions on what the reapers want with us. But I'd still say I understand your reasoning and so will not be picking over all the little flaws and holes in your theory.

What you'll have trouble with, then, is getting the rest of the world to agree with you. In ME 2186 you'd be considered as having gave up or worse, indoctrinated. Lol cya. Least u r civil about it.

[Gaidukk]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Lol I'm still here. Now you're dwelling into speculation and jumping into foced conclusions on what the reapers want with us. But I'd still say I understand your reasoning and so will not be picking over all the little flaws and holes in your theory.

What you'll have trouble with, then, is getting the rest of the world to agree with you. In ME 2186 you'd be considered as having gave up or worse, indoctrinated. Lol cya. Least u r civil about it.

Exuse me but I don't understand half of your message. Could you write more... correct?

[CrazyCatDude]

Gaidukk wrote...

Aha, Shepard kill the guardians in the DLC Kasumi Stolen Memories just because they tried to shoot him with their back? Nice one. And about a self-defence - nobody has a right to take alife. Nobody. Defed youself not with a gun, but with a baloon with gas, or with shocker and all be allright. But Shepard not the case. He not selfdefens. He kills a people with cold-blood, without blink. He just slaughtered them. 

Okay, walk into the guard room and see what happens if you don't shoot at them.  As for the whole "nobody has a right to take a life" thing...

Why are you playing this game again?  Seriously, if you disagree so strongly with what Shepard does in the game, why play?  There are plenty of games out there that don't involve killing enemies.  Might I suggest World of Goo, Portal 1 and 2 (unless you consider breaking a malfunctioning AI killing), Machinarium, Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, Cogs, Cut the Rope, and Words with Friends

[knightnblu]

Gaidukk wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Right. I think you're confusing some fundamental concept meanings here. Like "mass murderer", "hero", "freedom and justice" etc..

Nvm... Let me offer a non-western perspective. Do you want to f**king die for some re-hashed reason that's not even explained to you..?(or even a dumbed down explanation if it's really "complex") Then you talk about Shepard killing 300,000 people. What, they'll die soon enough anyway when the old machines come through that relay... Unless somehow you think they'll live, huh?

Really, no one can persuade you from your theories and ideologies if you don't let them.. Not on the internet, of course. Doesn't matter. Your pro-life approach is nice, but that reaper harvesting=good is really contradictory, and flawed. Still wondering if this is just a troll-for-fun thread. o_o

No,no,no,no,no. This isn't a "troll-for-fun thread". This is serious thread. Now, the answers:
1)What you offer is a western perspective. I don't want to be kiled by a mass-murderer ok? I want to live.
2)This is not pro-life approach, this is common sense. 
3)Noy you, noy me didn't know die they soon or not. All you can see - a sumbur video. Maybe they live a day, maybe a week. But Shepard don't let them. This is I try to tell. But I hard to do it. 

If the Reapers are going to liquefy you, how do you still live? You are just grey goo. Further, the reaping cycle has happened approximately 703 time with all life in the galaxy being exterminated. I would say that qualifies the Reapers as the greatest mass murderers. Does life continue? Yes, but it is new life that replaces the old and not a continuation of what has existed before and likely a product of the Reapers.
 
In other words, it is highly likely that life has been seeded by the Reapers for the express purpose of harvesting that life in order for it to be consumed. What little life survives is an abomination of what was and not in any way a part of the natural order. It has been repurposed by the machine mind and its will has been stripped from it. As such, it violates the Tao from an Eastern perspective.
 
Further, the mechanistic Reapers themselves are an aberration and are abhorrent to the Tao for the very fact that they pervert the natural order. The Tao does not look to the mechanical or to the designed, but to the way of nature. So from your own perspective you are advocating deviation from the norm by accepting the plan of the Reapers.
 
If you witnessed a child being attacked by man who appeared to have the intent of killing the child, would you intervene or would you allow the man to murder the child? The same could be said of the Reapers with the galaxy being the child. Shepard must intervene in order to preserve the natural order from being dominated by an artificial and destructive intelligence.

[redbaron76]

Gaiduk is indoctrinated. He is a reaper lover. And to see a slav like me preach slavery is preferable than death, well is insulting. Ofcourse shepard is a hero he fights for all life and to prevent galaxy wide genocide that reapers are trying to perpetrate. So In my opinion Gaiduk is notting but a troll looking for attention.

[Gaidukk]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

Aha, Shepard kill the guardians in the DLC Kasumi Stolen Memories just because they tried to shoot him with their back? Nice one. And about a self-defence - nobody has a right to take alife. Nobody. Defed youself not with a gun, but with a baloon with gas, or with shocker and all be allright. But Shepard not the case. He not selfdefens. He kills a people with cold-blood, without blink. He just slaughtered them. 

Okay, walk into the guard room and see what happens if you don't shoot at them.  As for the whole "nobody has a right to take a life" thing...

Why are you playing this game again?  Seriously, if you disagree so strongly with what Shepard does in the game, why play?  There are plenty of games out there that don't involve killing enemies.  Might I suggest World of Goo, Portal 1 and 2 (unless you consider breaking a malfunctioning AI killing), Machinarium, Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, Cogs, Cut the Rope, and Words with Friends

I like this game. All I want to say - Shepard not a hero, he just a murderer. That's all. This doesn't mean i don't like Me.

[redbaron76]

Shepard is a soldier and he fights a war, in war people get killed, so gaidukk quit trolling.