161 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaidukk]

knightnblu wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Right. I think you're confusing some fundamental concept meanings here. Like "mass murderer", "hero", "freedom and justice" etc..

Nvm... Let me offer a non-western perspective. Do you want to f**king die for some re-hashed reason that's not even explained to you..?(or even a dumbed down explanation if it's really "complex") Then you talk about Shepard killing 300,000 people. What, they'll die soon enough anyway when the old machines come through that relay... Unless somehow you think they'll live, huh?

Really, no one can persuade you from your theories and ideologies if you don't let them.. Not on the internet, of course. Doesn't matter. Your pro-life approach is nice, but that reaper harvesting=good is really contradictory, and flawed. Still wondering if this is just a troll-for-fun thread. o_o

No,no,no,no,no. This isn't a "troll-for-fun thread". This is serious thread. Now, the answers:
1)What you offer is a western perspective. I don't want to be kiled by a mass-murderer ok? I want to live.
2)This is not pro-life approach, this is common sense. 
3)Noy you, noy me didn't know die they soon or not. All you can see - a sumbur video. Maybe they live a day, maybe a week. But Shepard don't let them. This is I try to tell. But I hard to do it. 

If the Reapers are going to liquefy you, how do you still live? You are just grey goo. Further, the reaping cycle has happened approximately 703 time with all life in the galaxy being exterminated. I would say that qualifies the Reapers as the greatest mass murderers. Does life continue? Yes, but it is new life that replaces the old and not a continuation of what has existed before and likely a product of the Reapers.
 
In other words, it is highly likely that life has been seeded by the Reapers for the express purpose of harvesting that life in order for it to be consumed. What little life survives is an abomination of what was and not in any way a part of the natural order. It has been repurposed by the machine mind and its will has been stripped from it. As such, it violates the Tao from an Eastern perspective.
 
Further, the mechanistic Reapers themselves are an aberration and are abhorrent to the Tao for the very fact that they pervert the natural order. The Tao does not look to the mechanical or to the designed, but to the way of nature. So from your own perspective you are advocating deviation from the norm by accepting the plan of the Reapers.
 
If you witnessed a child being attacked by man who appeared to have the intent of killing the child, would you intervene or would you allow the man to murder the child? The same could be said of the Reapers with the galaxy being the child. Shepard must intervene in order to preserve the natural order from being dominated by an artificial and destructive intelligence.

Like i said previosly. If Reapers not coming, after 500-600 thousands years All systems and planets will be turn into lifeness rock. There is no resources, food, water, like in Rahana, homeworld of Thane. This is the future if Reapers will be defeated.  They just give us a chance to live. Yes, this is new life, but it is life, not slow painful death bu hunger.

[Gaidukk]

redbaron76 wrote...

Gaiduk is indoctrinated. He is a reaper lover. And to see a slav like me preach slavery is preferable than death, well is insulting. Ofcourse shepard is a hero he fights for all life and to prevent galaxy wide genocide that reapers are trying to perpetrate. So In my opinion Gaiduk is notting but a troll looking for attention.

You mistaken. I'm not trolling. I'm just tell my point of view. And let me ask you,if you slav do you from Russia, or you just a easten europeen?

Modifié par Gaidukk, 13 février 2012 - 06:11 .

[redbaron76]

No I am a slav from former yugoslavia. And it is okay to have your point of view but to state that shepard is mass murderes is a mistake, he is a soldier and he is paid to kill.

[knightnblu]

Gaidukk wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Right. I think you're confusing some fundamental concept meanings here. Like "mass murderer", "hero", "freedom and justice" etc..

Nvm... Let me offer a non-western perspective. Do you want to f**king die for some re-hashed reason that's not even explained to you..?(or even a dumbed down explanation if it's really "complex") Then you talk about Shepard killing 300,000 people. What, they'll die soon enough anyway when the old machines come through that relay... Unless somehow you think they'll live, huh?

Really, no one can persuade you from your theories and ideologies if you don't let them.. Not on the internet, of course. Doesn't matter. Your pro-life approach is nice, but that reaper harvesting=good is really contradictory, and flawed. Still wondering if this is just a troll-for-fun thread. o_o

No,no,no,no,no. This isn't a "troll-for-fun thread". This is serious thread. Now, the answers:
1)What you offer is a western perspective. I don't want to be kiled by a mass-murderer ok? I want to live.
2)This is not pro-life approach, this is common sense. 
3)Noy you, noy me didn't know die they soon or not. All you can see - a sumbur video. Maybe they live a day, maybe a week. But Shepard don't let them. This is I try to tell. But I hard to do it. 

If the Reapers are going to liquefy you, how do you still live? You are just grey goo. Further, the reaping cycle has happened approximately 703 time with all life in the galaxy being exterminated. I would say that qualifies the Reapers as the greatest mass murderers. Does life continue? Yes, but it is new life that replaces the old and not a continuation of what has existed before and likely a product of the Reapers.
 
In other words, it is highly likely that life has been seeded by the Reapers for the express purpose of harvesting that life in order for it to be consumed. What little life survives is an abomination of what was and not in any way a part of the natural order. It has been repurposed by the machine mind and its will has been stripped from it. As such, it violates the Tao from an Eastern perspective.
 
Further, the mechanistic Reapers themselves are an aberration and are abhorrent to the Tao for the very fact that they pervert the natural order. The Tao does not look to the mechanical or to the designed, but to the way of nature. So from your own perspective you are advocating deviation from the norm by accepting the plan of the Reapers.
 
If you witnessed a child being attacked by man who appeared to have the intent of killing the child, would you intervene or would you allow the man to murder the child? The same could be said of the Reapers with the galaxy being the child. Shepard must intervene in order to preserve the natural order from being dominated by an artificial and destructive intelligence.

Like i said previosly. If Reapers not coming, after 500-600 thousands years All systems and planets will be turn into lifeness rock. There is no resources, food, water, like in Rahana, homeworld of Thane. This is the future if Reapers will be defeated.  They just give us a chance to live. Yes, this is new life, but it is life, not slow painful death bu hunger.

So you do advocate abridging nature in favor of the machine. Wow, that is not an Eastern perspective my friend. That is definitely a Western way of looking at the world. The West views the world in mechanistic terms and so do you. The East does not see the world in that fashion. Your argument of "that's a Western view of the world" is crap. Because that is precisely how you view the world.
 
You are troll baiting, pure and simple.

[Gaidukk]

redbaron76 wrote...

No I am a slav from former yugoslavia. And it is okay to have your point of view but to state that shepard is mass murderes is a mistake, he is a soldier and he is paid to kill.

Well, you said just like I want to tell, Shepard not a hero he is a contract killer, like soldiers, who fighting for money.
He even worst than Kai Leng. Kai kills for idea.

[Gaidukk]

knightnblu wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Right. I think you're confusing some fundamental concept meanings here. Like "mass murderer", "hero", "freedom and justice" etc..

Nvm... Let me offer a non-western perspective. Do you want to f**king die for some re-hashed reason that's not even explained to you..?(or even a dumbed down explanation if it's really "complex") Then you talk about Shepard killing 300,000 people. What, they'll die soon enough anyway when the old machines come through that relay... Unless somehow you think they'll live, huh?

Really, no one can persuade you from your theories and ideologies if you don't let them.. Not on the internet, of course. Doesn't matter. Your pro-life approach is nice, but that reaper harvesting=good is really contradictory, and flawed. Still wondering if this is just a troll-for-fun thread. o_o

No,no,no,no,no. This isn't a "troll-for-fun thread". This is serious thread. Now, the answers:
1)What you offer is a western perspective. I don't want to be kiled by a mass-murderer ok? I want to live.
2)This is not pro-life approach, this is common sense. 
3)Noy you, noy me didn't know die they soon or not. All you can see - a sumbur video. Maybe they live a day, maybe a week. But Shepard don't let them. This is I try to tell. But I hard to do it. 

If the Reapers are going to liquefy you, how do you still live? You are just grey goo. Further, the reaping cycle has happened approximately 703 time with all life in the galaxy being exterminated. I would say that qualifies the Reapers as the greatest mass murderers. Does life continue? Yes, but it is new life that replaces the old and not a continuation of what has existed before and likely a product of the Reapers.
 
In other words, it is highly likely that life has been seeded by the Reapers for the express purpose of harvesting that life in order for it to be consumed. What little life survives is an abomination of what was and not in any way a part of the natural order. It has been repurposed by the machine mind and its will has been stripped from it. As such, it violates the Tao from an Eastern perspective.
 
Further, the mechanistic Reapers themselves are an aberration and are abhorrent to the Tao for the very fact that they pervert the natural order. The Tao does not look to the mechanical or to the designed, but to the way of nature. So from your own perspective you are advocating deviation from the norm by accepting the plan of the Reapers.
 
If you witnessed a child being attacked by man who appeared to have the intent of killing the child, would you intervene or would you allow the man to murder the child? The same could be said of the Reapers with the galaxy being the child. Shepard must intervene in order to preserve the natural order from being dominated by an artificial and destructive intelligence.

Like i said previosly. If Reapers not coming, after 500-600 thousands years All systems and planets will be turn into lifeness rock. There is no resources, food, water, like in Rahana, homeworld of Thane. This is the future if Reapers will be defeated.  They just give us a chance to live. Yes, this is new life, but it is life, not slow painful death bu hunger.

So you do advocate abridging nature in favor of the machine. Wow, that is not an Eastern perspective my friend. That is definitely a Western way of looking at the world. The West views the world in mechanistic terms and so do you. The East does not see the world in that fashion. Your argument of "that's a Western view of the world" is crap. Because that is precisely how you view the world.
 
You are troll baiting, pure and simple.

You know, when my opponents fell theyself a defeaded, they starting saying that I'm a troll. This is sad. 
And about eastern and western perspective. I have eastern perspective, I don't views a world in mechanistic terms, I saying 1)No one can't killing hundreds and be a Hero, 
2) Uncontroling breeding leads to the destruction of the nature
3)Killing for Freedom, Justice and whatewer els is a killing.
Simple, yes?

[redbaron76]

@ Gaidukk

You are very wrong. There are lots of examples of people who killed a lot of people and they are declared heroes. Hero or mass murderer is all matter of perspective. And you are a troll because you are the only one who spouts this philosophy. You do not have any evidence to support your view and have taken a childish point of view. So grow up and present your evidence, or shut up. Only an troll like you would support reapers who are genocidial machines over real live beings. So shepard is a hero, he is a spectre and he does what he needs to do, to preserve live beings in our galaxy, so you are either a troll or an indoctrinated troll.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Shepard isn't "a real, live being."

[Gaidukk]

redbaron76 wrote...

@ Gaidukk

You are very wrong. There are lots of examples of people who killed a lot of people and they are declared heroes. Hero or mass murderer is all matter of perspective. And you are a troll because you are the only one who spouts this philosophy. You do not have any evidence to support your view and have taken a childish point of view. So grow up and present your evidence, or shut up. Only an troll like you would support reapers who are genocidial machines over real live beings. So shepard is a hero, he is a spectre and he does what he needs to do, to preserve live beings in our galaxy, so you are either a troll or an indoctrinated troll.

Your insults are unfounded. And I write previously what, if man killing for the Freedom and Justice he is hero, and if man killing for unknow reason or reason, what not accepted by the society he is a murdere. This is twice standarts.
All I want to say is if man kill a man - he is a murderer. And I don't support the Reapers - I just understand what they a right. This is unpleasant but it's true. We are like a parasites, who consume resources and product only a ****. Sad, but true.

[Gaidukk]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Shepard isn't "a real, live being."

I know it, but this is the forum there discussing a games, doesn't it?

[redbaron76]

@ Random Jerkface

I know that shepard is not real, I was talking from a game perspective.

[AgitatedLemon]

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

[Gaidukk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

[AgitatedLemon]

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

Shepard never murdered anyone. They were going to die anyway.

[Gaidukk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

Shepard never murdered anyone. They were going to die anyway.

Typical justification for paragon. Of course the die anyway. But he murder them anyway, no matter die them or not die. He make a genocide.

[AgitatedLemon]

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

Shepard never murdered anyone. They were going to die anyway.

Typical justification for paragon. Of course the die anyway. But he murder them anyway, no matter die them or not die. He make a genocide.

... That isn't genocide. How does this have anything to with paragon? The paragon choice is warning the batarians, although warning them does nothing. The only person murdering anything is you, killing the English language.

[Gaidukk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

Shepard never murdered anyone. They were going to die anyway.

Typical justification for paragon. Of course the die anyway. But he murder them anyway, no matter die them or not die. He make a genocide.

... That isn't genocide. How does this have anything to with paragon? The paragon choice is warning the batarians, although warning them does nothing. The only person murdering anything is you, killing the English language.

1) Okay, you don't like a word genocid - call it massacre, mass murder, as you like. And paragons I call people like you, thouse who called things not their names and suppord twice standarts.
2)I told befor - I'm Russian, so for me hard to quick write on english, and google translate makes a lot of mistakes.

[AgitatedLemon]

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

Shepard never murdered anyone. They were going to die anyway.

Typical justification for paragon. Of course the die anyway. But he murder them anyway, no matter die them or not die. He make a genocide.

... That isn't genocide. How does this have anything to with paragon? The paragon choice is warning the batarians, although warning them does nothing. The only person murdering anything is you, killing the English language.

1) Okay, you don't like a word genocid - call it massacre, mass murder, as you like. And paragons I call people like you, thouse who called things not their names and suppord twice standarts.
2)I told befor - I'm Russian, so for me hard to quick write on english, and google translate makes a lot of mistakes.

I assume by "Twice standards" you mean double standard. In either case, I haven't presented any double standards. And just because the batarians died doesn't make it genocide. Genoide is the (attempted) extermination of a people because of their race or ethnicity. Shepard isn't a racist. It isn't mass murder or a massacre either. It's either sacrifice the batarians and delay the Reapers, or *not* sacrifice them and get screwed over.

[Gaidukk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

So you are saying Blue Suns, Blood Pack, and the other gangs are good people? The gangs kidnapping people, dealing drugs, and other illegal stuff and you call Shepard bad.

Not to mention the people trafficking, weapon smuggling, murder, extortion, etc, etc.

Shepard murder 300.00 innocent people. This is WAY worse than any gang ever doing.

Shepard never murdered anyone. They were going to die anyway.

Typical justification for paragon. Of course the die anyway. But he murder them anyway, no matter die them or not die. He make a genocide.

... That isn't genocide. How does this have anything to with paragon? The paragon choice is warning the batarians, although warning them does nothing. The only person murdering anything is you, killing the English language.

1) Okay, you don't like a word genocid - call it massacre, mass murder, as you like. And paragons I call people like you, thouse who called things not their names and suppord twice standarts.
2)I told befor - I'm Russian, so for me hard to quick write on english, and google translate makes a lot of mistakes.

I assume by "Twice standards" you mean double standard. In either case, I haven't presented any double standards. And just because the batarians died doesn't make it genocide. Genoide is the (attempted) extermination of a people because of their race or ethnicity. Shepard isn't a racist. It isn't mass murder or a massacre either. It's either sacrifice the batarians and delay the Reapers, or *not* sacrifice them and get screwed over.

Okay, let's analyzing that.
1)People die? - die.
2)Shepard kill them - yes.
3)He can not to kill them - yes.
4)There is a lot of people - yes.
Conclusion - this is mass murder. And about genocid, I admit that I was wrong. I forgot that Shep isn't a racist. (Although if you play as renegade and killing Council, he can say racist phrases, like: "If you want shoot problem - call turian, if you want to talk problem - call a salarian, - if you want more problems - call asari, and if you want to solve the problem - call the human")

[AgitatedLemon]

Gaidukk wrote...

Okay, let's analyzing that.
1)People die? - die.
2)Shepard kill them - yes.
3)He can not to kill them - yes.
4)There is a lot of people - yes.
Conclusion - this is mass murder. And about genocid, I admit that I was wrong. I forgot that Shep isn't a racist. (Although if you play as renegade and killing Council, he can say racist phrases, like: "If you want shoot problem - call turian, if you want to talk problem - call a salarian, - if you want more problems - call asari, and if you want to solve the problem - call the human")

It's not mass murder because Shepard isn't murdering anyone. And no, he can't *not* kill them.

Well, he can, but then the Reapers would harvest everyone. It's rationalization and justification. He wasn't sending them to death for the lulz.

[Gaidukk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

Okay, let's analyzing that.
1)People die? - die.
2)Shepard kill them - yes.
3)He can not to kill them - yes.
4)There is a lot of people - yes.
Conclusion - this is mass murder. And about genocid, I admit that I was wrong. I forgot that Shep isn't a racist. (Although if you play as renegade and killing Council, he can say racist phrases, like: "If you want shoot problem - call turian, if you want to talk problem - call a salarian, - if you want more problems - call asari, and if you want to solve the problem - call the human")

It's not mass murder because Shepard isn't murdering anyone. And no, he can't *not* kill them.

Well, he can, but then the Reapers would harvest everyone. It's rationalization and justification. He wasn't sending them to death for the lulz.

You know, it's like: i don't kill a person, my gun do that. Yes Shep don't kill them personal, but he launched a asteroid, or whatewer was that and they die because of him. I know what he do it for "salvation", I understand why he do that. I  just want to people admit what he is murderer, not a hero. He killed them - not personal, not because lulz, but KILL.

[Troller79]

In Communist Russia people dont confuse words, words confuse people.

[AgitatedLemon]

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

Okay, let's analyzing that.
1)People die? - die.
2)Shepard kill them - yes.
3)He can not to kill them - yes.
4)There is a lot of people - yes.
Conclusion - this is mass murder. And about genocid, I admit that I was wrong. I forgot that Shep isn't a racist. (Although if you play as renegade and killing Council, he can say racist phrases, like: "If you want shoot problem - call turian, if you want to talk problem - call a salarian, - if you want more problems - call asari, and if you want to solve the problem - call the human")

It's not mass murder because Shepard isn't murdering anyone. And no, he can't *not* kill them.

Well, he can, but then the Reapers would harvest everyone. It's rationalization and justification. He wasn't sending them to death for the lulz.

You know, it's like: i don't kill a person, my gun do that. Yes Shep don't kill them personal, but he launched a asteroid, or whatewer was that and they die because of him. I know what he do it for "salvation", I understand why he do that. I  just want to people admit what he is murderer, not a hero. He killed them - not personal, not because lulz, but KILL.

*Rubs temples*

It's not murder. Just because Shepard killed them (Rather, he had to kill them) doesn't automatically make it murder.

Don't bother replying to me, because I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

[Gaidukk]

Troller79 wrote...

In Communist Russia people dont confuse words, words confuse people.

In Capitalist America people not rop banks, banks rob people

[Gaidukk]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Gaidukk wrote...

Okay, let's analyzing that.
1)People die? - die.
2)Shepard kill them - yes.
3)He can not to kill them - yes.
4)There is a lot of people - yes.
Conclusion - this is mass murder. And about genocid, I admit that I was wrong. I forgot that Shep isn't a racist. (Although if you play as renegade and killing Council, he can say racist phrases, like: "If you want shoot problem - call turian, if you want to talk problem - call a salarian, - if you want more problems - call asari, and if you want to solve the problem - call the human")

It's not mass murder because Shepard isn't murdering anyone. And no, he can't *not* kill them.

Well, he can, but then the Reapers would harvest everyone. It's rationalization and justification. He wasn't sending them to death for the lulz.

You know, it's like: i don't kill a person, my gun do that. Yes Shep don't kill them personal, but he launched a asteroid, or whatewer was that and they die because of him. I know what he do it for "salvation", I understand why he do that. I  just want to people admit what he is murderer, not a hero. He killed them - not personal, not because lulz, but KILL.

*Rubs temples*

It's not murder. Just because Shepard killed them (Rather, he had to kill them) doesn't automatically make it murder.

Don't bother replying to me, because I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

Ok, each has his opinion.