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To the attention of Bioware team and community: please stop DLCs


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#376
slimgrin

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Yuoaman wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

THIS IS THE LAST GAME IN THE SERIES AND IT SHOULD BE COMPLETE. WHY MUST IT HAVE DLCS?


It is complete.

DLC is extra content.


How is it priced? I've spent dozens of hours in Arena mode for TW2. That was free. I've spent several hours in the challenge mode for Hard Reset. That was free too.

Sorry to sound like a dick here, but why does EA still charge for such trivial content? They are one of the richest game companies around and here are these indie devs throwing players a bone.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 février 2012 - 05:29 .


#377
AlanC9

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Severyx wrote...
I have a lot of completionist friends, and this is their general stance on all of this: Completionist is someone who aims to complete all the base game content. If you plan on buying any/all the DLCs, you've gone beyond completionist. Now you're a consumerist!


I think that's a really useful distinction.

We also need to distinguish between people who want all the story DLCs and people who want absolutely everything.

#378
AlanC9

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slimgrin wrote...
Sorry to sound like a dick here, but why does EA still charge for such trivial content?


Because people pay for it.

(Was that a trick question?)

#379
Stanley Woo

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El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Hey Woo! Any chances to have those extra dlc on a disk like some kind of expansion? Mostly because in my country is a little complicated to get them...

I don't know, as I'm not in Marketing and not part of the Mass Effect 3 team. We can always hope, though. :)

#380
Mike Shepard

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PDesign wrote...

Mike Shepard wrote...

PDesign wrote...

iOS Game - 8$


Well I didn't know the iOS game was $8. Most iOS games I know of cost $2, maybe $3. If it's really good it costs $4. Galaxy was $1


itunes.apple.com/us/app/dead-space/id396018321


the key phrase was "that I know of."

Battleship: $2
Paper Toss: $1
Paper Toss 2: $1
Mass Effect Galaxy: $1

see where I'm going? my iPhone is just that - an iPhone. I just today bought Galaxy, and the other games I have (Battleship, paper toss 2, falling balls, a couple others) I only have because I had gift cards for iTunes. The main point is it is fluff. I can get the maximum out of the game without playing Infiltrator.  Depending on the price I will probably get Infiltrator and Datapad. Again. it depends on the cost:benefit ratio.

@Stanley woo--I read all your posts. from this bioware fan to you, thank you for taking the time to explain the process to us.

Modifié par Mike Shepard, 09 février 2012 - 05:30 .


#381
Captain_Obvious_au

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hex23 wrote...

PoliteAssasin, maybe you responded and I didn't see it. If that's the case I'll ask again. Who are you and what do you do, exactly?

[Arnie]Let's play a game - who is your Daddy, and what does he do?[/Arnie]

Severyx wrote...

I have a lot of completionist friends,
and this is their general stance on all of this: Completionist is
someone who aims to complete all the base game content. If you plan on
buying any/all the DLCs, you've gone beyond completionist. Now you're a
consumerist!

*shrug* semantics really, either way I'm talking about people who want to have all of the content that exists.

#382
Jaron Oberyn

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Stanley Woo wrote...

hex23 wrote...

PoliteAssasin, maybe you responded and I didn't see it. If that's the case I'll ask again. Who are you and what do you do, exactly?

Let it go, hex23.


While I'm done I can at least answer this. No harm at all. I'm an independent developer. I've been using the Unreal Engine for  7 years, currently using the UE3. I own a company that's working on an undisclosed project exclusive for the PC. What I do exactly is character and environmental modeling. Model/sculpt characters, and model/design environments, all using industry standard tools such as Zbrush, Maya, Photoshop, UE3, etc...

I dont want to derail the thread though, but this was just to answer your question. ;)

-Polite

#383
izmirtheastarach

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AlanC9 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
Sorry to sound like a dick here, but why does EA still charge for such trivial content?


Because people pay for it.

(Was that a trick question?)


Yeah, the way to become a rich company is to find ways to make money.

#384
AtreiyaN7

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

jcolt wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Hey BioWare...please continue with the good DLCs with story content, etc. And for those who are upset by the other stuff...don't buy it?

agreed like i've bought every story content dlc but i will not buy the action figures for the dlc just because theres no way i'm gonna buy an action figure i don't care how much story content it has, but i'm not gonna gripe about it because its my choice.


Once again, it has no story content. Is has worthless multiplayer content. There is no benefit to buying the figures unless you want to figures.


To elaborate on what I said: I love story-related stuff, but I'm also okay with multiplayer content, weapons & whatever other doodads they make. I may or may not purchase such things on a case-by-case basis, and I really think that people who aren't interested in the more frivolous content like that A) are not forced to buy it and B) should ignore it if they're not interested in it. People who actively campaign for them to stop making DLC...eh, I just find that silly on the whole.

#385
izmirtheastarach

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

While I'm done I can at least answer this. No harm at all. I'm an independent developer. I've been using the Unreal Engine for  7 years, currently using the UE3. I own a company that's working on an undisclosed project exclusive for the PC. What I do exactly is character and environmental modeling. Model/sculpt characters, and model/design environments, all using industry standard tools such as Zbrush, Maya, Photoshop, UE3, etc...

I dont want to derail the thread though, but this was just to answer your question. ;)

-Polite


The only reason this was brought up at all is because you seem to want to play this off into a claim that you somehow know more about this topic than anyone else here. Since, by your own admission you don't work for EA or any other big developer or publisher, I'm not sure why that would be.

It's arrogant to claim that you are the only one who understands when you don't seem to have any more insider knowldge then anyone else here. I certainly don't believe you do. So it's fine to have your own personal opinion, but it's not made any more valid because of your background, nor is anyone else's opinion less valid because of theirs.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 09 février 2012 - 05:35 .


#386
Chala

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Stanley Woo wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Hey Woo! Any chances to have those extra dlc on a disk like some kind of expansion? Mostly because in my country is a little complicated to get them...

I don't know, as I'm not in Marketing and not part of the Mass Effect 3 team. We can always hope, though. :)

Oh Well, I guess that I only can wait and see... And pray for if you do it, don't do it not too late.

#387
Severyx

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Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

*shrug* semantics really, either way I'm talking about people who want to have all of the content that exists.


The problem with that is that it should be a mindset right out of the box that there will be huge variations of DLC. ME3 is going to be massive (pardon the pun), and this sort of marketing strategy is fairly typical for high profile games. I suppose it can't be helped that it's all very fragmented, but that's becuase they're trying to reach a very broad playerbase.

Perhaps a better idea is to want all of the DLC within reason. If buying figures to get those itty-bits is out of reach, then simply allow it to cross your mind that such DLC shouldn't be completionist-worthy.

Modifié par Severyx, 09 février 2012 - 05:37 .


#388
Chuvvy

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:ph34r:[real or presumed spoiler removed]:ph34r:

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 09 février 2012 - 05:42 .


#389
Jaron Oberyn

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

While I'm done I can at least answer this. No harm at all. I'm an independent developer. I've been using the Unreal Engine for  7 years, currently using the UE3. I own a company that's working on an undisclosed project exclusive for the PC. What I do exactly is character and environmental modeling. Model/sculpt characters, and model/design environments, all using industry standard tools such as Zbrush, Maya, Photoshop, UE3, etc...

I dont want to derail the thread though, but this was just to answer your question. ;)

-Polite


The only reason this was brought up at all is because you seem to want to play this off into a claim that you somehow know more about this topic than anyone else here. Since, by your own admission you don't work for EA or any other big developer or publisher, I'm not sure why that would be.

It's arrogant to claim that you are the only one who understands when you don't seem to have any more insider knowldge then anyone else here. I certainly don't believe you do. So it's fine to have your own personal opinion, but it's not made any more valid because of your background, nor is anyone else's opinion less valid because of theirs.


Thats false, but sure whatever you say. 



-Polite

#390
Stanley Woo

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@izmirtheastarach: It's cool, let it go.

#391
Yuoaman

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Just to clear something up: I'm not really angry, if I were angry I wouldn't be posting in the thread anymore. Sure I'm a tad annoyed and exasperated, but I'm not enraged or anything.

Also, I still have no problem with DLC - the smaller ones that everyone seems to have a problem with are included with other products. If you're buying the figures for the DLC items then... I don't understand.

#392
Yuoaman

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Slidell505 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Alexander Kogan wrote...

I'm beginning to think that EA is purposefully making BioWare either remove or lock out content that's already in the game to force us to pay for more to get the full experience. Oh how I miss the days when we could actually get a full and complete game instead of publishers making developers flush out incomplete games.
<_<

Patently incorrect, on both counts, and I addressed this sentiment earlier in the thread.

SPOILERY ****.


It was already DLC at that point, the implementation changed.

#393
NOD-INFORMER37

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Nothing like pointless, pricey, DLC-tacked everything to bring ppl together. =]

Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 09 février 2012 - 05:40 .


#394
Mclouvins

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Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Not relevant though Yuoaman - if they're that insignificant, why do them at all? Bioware and EA know full well that there are many completionists around and the DLC idea is a way to get us to re-purchase something we've already bought.


People have to exercise personal responsibility when acting as consumers. The $518 mark as a complete package is somewhat disingenuous to begin with, however people still have to engage their grey matter when making decisions. I love the Mass Effect series and frankly have more of a means to purchase all this stuff than a lot of the people who visit here, but spending $60 for a single video-game shotgun is outrageous. There is a market for peripherals and Bioware/EA see that and try to further incentivize them by adding little bits of dlc that are probably inconsequential, which despite what some people think is really not that objectionable or imperious. If an individual feels the need to go and purchase every peripheral to have what is the most absolutely complete experience then he or she has nobody to blame but himself/herself for overextending his or her finances on swag.

#395
jcolt

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i guess i kinda think of dlc as aftermarket performance parts my truck was just fine to begin with but i added performance exhaust posi rear diff etc some ppl may think its pointless but i believe its money well spent maybe not the best analogy but its one i can get behind.

#396
Chala

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Yuoaman wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Alexander Kogan wrote...

I'm beginning to think that EA is purposefully making BioWare either remove or lock out content that's already in the game to force us to pay for more to get the full experience. Oh how I miss the days when we could actually get a full and complete game instead of publishers making developers flush out incomplete games.
<_<

Patently incorrect, on both counts, and I addressed this sentiment earlier in the thread.

SPOILERY ****.


It was already DLC at that point, the implementation changed.

That's true, he was accidentally announced during the E3 as dlc.

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 09 février 2012 - 05:45 .


#397
Kileyan

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Stanley Woo wrote...


Sure, i'll try and field this one. In my opinion, videogames and gaming has become extremely popular, so much so that it's no longer considered "nerdy" or "unpopular." With the invention of the Nintendo Wii, browser games, mobile and tablet games, and with large-scale adoption of broadband interrnet, gaming has never been more popular and it looks to get more popular still. because of this popularity, there is a lot of competition. There will never be a time when the average gamer is without a game to play, whether it's Angry birds, the latest AAA release, an ongoing MMO, or Farmville on Facebook.

Expansion packs were a way to keep people interested in a game long after they were finished the main game's story. Due to the size of expansion pack, they were few and far between. these day, i reckon, in the time it takes for a developer to release a full-on expansion pack, people might already have forgotten your game. DLC is, again, in my opinion, a way to counteract that "forgetfulness." With smaller but more frequent content releases, you keep people interested in your game for a lot longer, which means potential sales of sequels can be bigger and, if actual expansion packs are released, players will still be hankering for them.

i see DLC as micro-expansion packs, which is probably why i don't really have a problem with them. the old game + expansion model had to adapt to the changing market and player expecation, just as game budgets had to increase to keep up with player expectation. DLC pricing is the way it is (seen as more expensive than similar amounts of content in a single expansion pack) to get a better return on a much larger investment than, say, 10 years ago.

A decade ago, a million-dollar game would have been pretty snazzy. These days, AAA titles probably run in the tens or even the dozens of millions. That's why all the advertising (now seen at the movie theatre, on television, billboards, etc., and not just in game enthusiast magazines). That's why the ancillary products / tie-ins. That's why everything, really. :)


But the DLC model is really that much better? Sometimes it is 5 months to release of 45-70 minute adventure DLC. In the old days that was half way through releasing a solid expansion with many hours of gameplay, new classes, powers and gameplay tweaks.

I don't understand, how is this model better. Sure it is cheaper, but the end product is a mere shadow of what you used to release for your games.

Do you really think that if you put out an awesome game, that people would need monthly cheap DLC shennanigans to keep your game in their memory? People will remember your game and want an expansion because the game was damn good. Not because you put out monthly like me advertising begging campaign disguised as a DLC.

#398
izmirtheastarach

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Stanley Woo wrote...

@izmirtheastarach: It's cool, let it go.


I'm inclned to acquiesce to your request. Back to my ME2 playthrough, I say.

#399
Severyx

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For those of you who still haven't read Mr. Woo's comments on DLC, I suggest clicking the BIOWARE icon under this thread's title from the General forums. There's a lot of things explained in his consecutive posts.

#400
CubbieBlue66

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EA is doing exactly what it should be doing -- It's asking Bioware to maximize profits because EA has a fiscal responsiblity to its stakeholders.

Bioware is doing exactly what it should be doing -- It's maximizing profits because its parent company has asked it to.

The marketing department is doing exactly what it should be doing. -- They ran the numbers and realized that this is how to maximize profits.

I'm left with nobody to blame... which is sad for me. Not because I enjoy blaming people, but because I'm in that segment of their base that Bioware's marketing department knew they'd be alienating. I'm a completionist... and I can't even approach maxing things out without spending nearly $500 (so far).

Mass Effect has quickly become one of my favorite series of all time. And while I intend to honor my preorder for Mass Effect 3, after that I'm disappointed to say I wont be purchasing another Bioware game.