730 réponses à ce sujet

[GothDude]

Avalanche404 wrote...

The abuse of DLCs has become a frustrating matter.
Before being tagged as a "hater", let me say that I am a long-term fan of Bioware and I've played almost any of their games, from Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age 2, passing through Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass effect, and any episode of those series.

But I have grown tired of Bioware (and probably EA) policy about the quantity and quality of downloadable contents.
First of all, there is an unequal balance between the price of DLCs and the quantity and quality of their content, as most of them are skin or weapon packages and 10-minutes-long quests. Talking about additional quests: I think is unfair to expand the story through many single missions, "forcing" fans to spend even more money than the original game, in order to know how the plot continue through a bunch of short missions. This brings to the second point: is quite offensive to make and announce DLCs before the release of a game, because is like to say "hey, we are selling you an incomplete product, if you want it all you must spend more".
Last but not least: please, stop producing gameplay-ruining DLCs, like over-powered weapons and armors. Sure, there is no reason to buy them if I don't want to, but what if I am a collector and I like to buy limited edition? Am I forced to have a lot of addictional contents which gave me enough power to finish the game without changing equipment? Is like cheating! And again, someone could say "no one force you to use them", but hell, I have spent a lot for a collector's edition and those money cover also that, why I shouldn't use what I've paid for?

This is an invitation to all Bioware fans to tell your opinion, and let's gather Bioware attention, hoping in a future change of plans. I know that DLCs = easy money, but at least stop selling cheap cheats and splitting the plot in pieces.



Without regret but with hope of will have been understood,
a Bioware fan that have just preordered Mass Effect 3 limited edition (as I have made with Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, and Dragon Age 2*).






PS: forgive me for my lack of english.
*: sorry but I must say it: worst-limited-edition-ever, expecially compared to DA:O.

DLC is meant to extend the "full" game, adding more hours to it, as well adding more of a replay value. also it's meant to help stop the Used game market. the DLC is meant to make you wana keep the game instead of get rid of it!
also, Game Developers need a constant flow of revenue to keep the company doors open and employees payed.
I support DLC, for the simple reason that I love games. it's the only reason i have kept a lot of my games, waiting for DLC. and i fully support Bioware in their decision for DLC. wana complain about a incomplete game? go find a Bethesda forum.
good day sir

[vonSlash]

After skimming through this thread and reading all the Bioware replies, I can't honestly complain too much about their DLC plans. I don't like their business model, but, since I can't change that, I'm willing to accept it for now.


However, what I'm still wondering about is the marketing ideology. I can understand having a large and widespread marketing campaign to help boost profits by recruiting new fans, but I'm concerned about the approach they take to market it. By pitching Mass Effect as a sci-fi shooter, not only are they obscuring Mass Effect's strengths (let's face it, even with the new combat gameplay improvements, Mass Effect's charm for most people doesn't lie in its combat, and I doubt that Mass Effect's combat is what recruited most of the current fans, such as the people on this board), but they are also setting themselves up to face tougher competition from other games (usually true shooters) being marketed the same way. I would think that making an advertising campaign that stresses the unique strengths of Mass Effect would be more successful than one that closely resembles every other shooter marketing campaign out there. Also, even if this campaign is successful, it's likely to mainly recruit the shooter-exclusive crowd, who won't likely even care or be interested in the story,characters, or plot, and just see the game series (injustly) as a second-rate shooter?

TL;DR: I'm confused as to why EA/Bioware thinks it's a good idea to avoid the "THIS GAME is GREAT because your decisions DETERMINE the FATE OF THE UNIVERSE!" approach in favor of the "THE GAME is GREAT because you KILL MUTATED ALIENS in SPACE!" approach in their marketing campaign.

Modifié par vonSlash, 09 février 2012 - 06:20 .

[XFemShepX]

Couple of questions about things you mentioned, Stan. I apologize for my poor formatting, btw, I'm not the most saavy forum-goer.

You: "DLC is, again, in my opinion, a way to counteract that "forgetfulness." With smaller but more frequent content releases, you keep people interested in your game for a lot longer, which means potential sales of sequels can be bigger..."

My question is, do you think Bring Down the Sky made people more excited for Mass Effect 2? Or Pinnacle Station? Do you think Pinnacle Station was the kind of story-advancing DLC that kept 'forgetfulness' of fickle gamers at bay? Because in my own opinion, I was kind of disappointed I even spent money on it. What made people excited for Mass Effect 2 was 1) the fact that Mass Effect was such a solid game that it stood on its own merits, and 2) the combat revision and subsequent shooter marketing not only appealed to a larger audience as well as the base (even the grumbly RPG-heads, after they played it a bit).

You: "As much as you might want all the extras, I think that as long as the game out of the box is still significant and can be taken in and of itself, we as a gaming populace are still in a good place. Absent all DLC, if a game gives you a good play experience, has an ending to the story presented in the game, and leaves you satisfied, it should still be considered a decent game. "

When I was reading this, I thought about Arrival. It is such an important storytelling point in the game, and even as far as Mass Effect 3 goes is considered canon for the opening of the game. How will you reconcile the Arrival DLC with those ME fans who haven't played it? Another comic? I don't mean to sound snarky, but considering that the events of Arrival are considered canon story in ME3, but Arrival was a DLC and was not a part of ME2 I kinda feel like your comment about a game out of the box giving you a complete and satisfying experience is somewhat invalid when these points are considered.

Just uh, some opinions.

[Kileyan]

AlanC9 wrote...


OK, so your post isn't really about making sense, it's just about feeling?

We still got plenty of content for ME2 with the DLC model.

If you want to put it that way, sure!

My post is about Bioware making a good game, my earlier response was directed at you. You made it seem like we fans were supposed to give Bioware a break because their workers were working on many other projects. Hence my response, I do not care what they are working on, their job is to make the game I am purchasing an awesome game, I do not care about the other 3 games you mentioned in this discussion.

[Icinix]

How I would have liked to have seen this crazy amount of DLC handled;

Rather than a different piece for each purchase - you have a code or multiple codes. When you redeem that code you have a choice of different pieces of weapon / armour / DLC etc.

That way people could buy what they want, get the DLC they want, and transparency with DLC wouldn't be an issue.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Hey Mr. Woo if you're still there, do you know if any more information will be released on these DLC's at all  before the game comes out? Its pretty vague now and information such as how many extra DLC's there are in total(for all we know the art book dlc could be the same as one of the figure's), what the DLC's actually are, and if at all possible what DLC comes with what product? It would really help those trying to collect all of them.

Especially when the dlc "completionists" are looking at $500+ worth of Mass Effect labeled products tacked with all this DLC. Maybe thats not as bad though if they can know which DLC they were getting, it will help them decide what to spend their money on and let them save up for the actual game. For example, is it ALL multi DLC or has someone thrown some SP content in with those products? Thats a key thing we just dont know. With the game coming out in just under a month, there isnt alot of time to make or cancel any orders toward DLC-tacked products. =S   

Also heres some random unrelated question;
Why do you like Volus so much and what does species makes up the rest of the Bioware team? xP
(between you and me I think Chris Priestly's a Vorcha. Must be the evil face...) 

Modifié par NOD-INFORMER37, 09 février 2012 - 06:37 .

[AlanC9]

Kileyan wrote...
My post is about Bioware making a good game, my earlier response was directed at you. You made it seem like we fans were supposed to give Bioware a break because their workers were working on many other projects. Hence my response, I do not care what they are working on, their job is to make the game I am purchasing an awesome game, I do not care about the other 3 games you mentioned in this discussion. 

You don't care about the 3 other games I mentioned? One of them was ME3, and another was a purely hypothetical new IP -- how can you know that you wouldn't be interested in a new product when you don't know anything about it?

That leaves TOR. And sure, the risk of the DLC model is that assets that might have gone into making more ME2 instead went to TOR.

[AlanC9]

vonSlash wrote...
TL;DR: I'm confused as to why EA/Bioware thinks it's a good idea to avoid the "THIS GAME is GREAT because your decisions DETERMINE the FATE OF THE UNIVERSE!" approach in favor of the "THE GAME is GREAT because you KILL MUTATED ALIENS in SPACE!" approach in their marketing campaign.

Simple. EA believes that most gamers who can be influenced by marketing are idiots.

They're probably right.

[Terror_K]

Icinix wrote...

How I would have liked to have seen this crazy amount of DLC handled;

Rather than a different piece for each purchase - you have a code or multiple codes. When you redeem that code you have a choice of different pieces of weapon / armour / DLC etc.

That way people could buy what they want, get the DLC they want, and transparency with DLC wouldn't be an issue.

That's kind of how the Dr. Pepper codes worked with the ME2 promotion, albeit with a choice of different games instead of different DLC for the one game. You got the code and then could either redeem it for a piece of ME2 gear, some Spore parts, or... whatever the other game was that I forget. It was the player's choice.

Modifié par Terror_K, 09 février 2012 - 06:43 .

[SkittlesKat96]

The only thing I dislike about DLC are when companies make launch DLC that you either have to pay for separately or preorder the game to get. I mean come on, they want to get good reviews and make the game the best it can be right? And those DLC's were content that they didn't get time to finish before the game came out right?

I really hope there isn't actually a Prothean squad mate that you can only get in ME 3 if you buy it separately or preorder the Collector's Edition...

I know Bioware/EA want money (and I understand that so much, its how business works and if I was a game developer I would feel similar, there isn't anything evil about making a profit) but still...it'd be cooler if they just left the more substantial DLC for after the game has came out.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 09 février 2012 - 06:46 .

[NOD-INFORMER37]

@Terror_K Thats how I wish it was, and ME3 Dr Pepper is what I prepared for!(and not just for myself)

But no.... x[

[Femlob]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I really hope there isn't actually a Prothean squad mate that you can only get in ME 3 if you buy it separately or preorder the Collector's Edition...

I highly doubt it.

Things like extra weapons and appearance packs are flavor; they improve customization without noticably affecting the existing content they are added to. People might dislike it, but there's no real harm in turning any or all of these into exclusives.

New missions or squad mates, on the other hand, do affect the content available in the base game; some of these DLCs go on to become an integral part of the story (just look at Lair of the Shadow Broker - or the Catwoman Bundle Pack for Batman: Arkham City if you want a non-BioWare example).
To turn any of these into exclusives means deriving your customers of what could be considered essential content; apart from this practice being bad for business (as people are wont to purchase anything that increases the longevity of the game), it's also quite likely to negatively affect public opinion.

Modifié par Femlob, 09 février 2012 - 07:21 .

[E-Type XR]

My problem with the "extra product DLC" is that EA/Bioware never agree to sell them later.

Mr. Woo, could you please put it to marketing that after a game has been released for a year, no one is pre-ordering Origin editions anymore. Sell the AT-12 Raider as a 80 point DLC or something. You'll make MORE money (I know that's always an incentive ) and annoy less people with OCD.

[WildWilly10]

I am sorry, but I personally love DLCs...to a point. But all of these "buy a book, get a crappy DLC" or "buy a set of bad action figures (no offense to those who are madly in love with them), get a set of crappy MP DLCs. I got super pissed when I found out that the code the SR2 Normandy model won't unlock anything. I am also super pissed that the Secret Character/Mission is being sold to everyone, but I am looking forward for Day 1 DLC(s). That is going to be awesome. I really hope we get the AT-12 Raider on Day 1 or someone at MS accidently places the DLCs for free.

[illusive_wolf]

Stanley Woo wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

My problem is that EVERYTHING has exclusive DLC now.  It's moved beyond a cool bonus that makes the game more fun--now it's obnoxious and gimmicky.  I also have a problem with day one DLC because, seriously, that stuff should go in the god damn game.  There is no point in NOT including it in the vanilla edition other than to nickel and dime your consumer base.

"Bonus" content left and right before the damn game's even out?  Pathetic.

And that's my opinion on that.

You know what they call bonus content that's already in the main game? "The main game." To be a "bonus" it has be demonstrably separate from the main game. It has to be an add-on to something that is already a whole thing.

If it's "in the god damn game," it's just content, and to call it a bonus then would just anger more people because the bonus is already in the game! I don't think you can complain about "bonus DLC should be in the game" in one breath and suggest "make the bonus more invisible but still call it a bonus" in the next. Because at that point, you're just wanting to get more content for free.

Whenever these topics come up, I try to explain how DLC is made, by whom, and why it can't appear on the game disc. But some people are quite happy to dig in their heels and keep spouting their incorrect and misguided statements against DLC. I'm okay with folks disagreeing with DLC or disliking it, even hating it as a concept, but please be honest about it and get your facts straight, at the very least.

And Gatt9, that goes for you too.

with all due respect i find that this is just a way to cover peoples eyes from the truth, most likely what admiral thinks along with most people is that if something is made for the game BEFORE the game is even released there is no point to having it seprate from the game upon launch for a seprate price. There is good reason to believe this because dlc has gotten out of hand by locking/excluding content in the game and the only way to get it is by dishing out extra cash (ex. marvel vs. capcom). bonus content however is a seprate matter since it is a bonus to the game, but even that has its limits as to what is accepted by the buyer. if its something like the terminus armor for me2 that is pefrectly fine to most people because its armor and dosnt have a dynamic impact on the game, but having something that clearly can tilt the scale such as missions and people that can help, is veiwed as finacial greed.

[Femlob]

illusive_wolf wrote...

*snip*

with all due respect i find that this is just a way to cover peoples eyes from the truth, most likely what admiral thinks along with most people is that if something is made for the game BEFORE the game is even released there is no point to having it seprate from the game upon launch for a seprate price. There is good reason to believe this because dlc has gotten out of hand by locking/excluding content in the game and the only way to get it is by dishing out extra cash (ex. marvel vs. capcom). bonus content however is a seprate matter since it is a bonus to the game, but even that has its limits as to what is accepted by the buyer. if its something like the terminus armor for me2 that is pefrectly fine to most people because its armor and dosnt have a dynamic impact on the game, but having something that clearly can tilt the scale such as missions and people that can help, is veiwed as finacial greed.

The truth is that games are developed and published by for-profit companies that want to see a return on investment. Modern games cost millions of dollars to produce and advertise - and as costly as $60 per copy sounds to the public, companies still need to sell an awful lot of them just to break even (let alone turn a profit).

One increasingly popular strategy is to try and cash in on the second-hand trade; incentives like pre-order exclusives and single-use redemption codes are fairly effective at either enticing second-hand customers to also purchase from official sources what they otherwise miss out on or even discouraging second-hand trade altogether.

As much as people may disagree with these business practices (I'm not particularly fond of them, either), they're quite legitimate. You're under no obligation to purchase anything, and that includes the base product. That, in turn, means you're not entitled to anything either - which is nonetheless exactly what some people here tend to think.

Modifié par Femlob, 09 février 2012 - 08:57 .

[Burneye Is God]

Avalanche404 wrote...

The abuse of DLCs has become a frustrating matter.
Before being tagged as a "hater", let me say that I am a long-term fan of Bioware and I've played almost any of their games, from Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age 2, passing through Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass effect, and any episode of those series.

But I have grown tired of Bioware (and probably EA) policy about the quantity and quality of downloadable contents.
First of all, there is an unequal balance between the price of DLCs and the quantity and quality of their content, as most of them are skin or weapon packages and 10-minutes-long quests. Talking about additional quests: I think is unfair to expand the story through many single missions, "forcing" fans to spend even more money than the original game, in order to know how the plot continue through a bunch of short missions. This brings to the second point: is quite offensive to make and announce DLCs before the release of a game, because is like to say "hey, we are selling you an incomplete product, if you want it all you must spend more".
Last but not least: please, stop producing gameplay-ruining DLCs, like over-powered weapons and armors. Sure, there is no reason to buy them if I don't want to, but what if I am a collector and I like to buy limited edition? Am I forced to have a lot of addictional contents which gave me enough power to finish the game without changing equipment? Is like cheating! And again, someone could say "no one force you to use them", but hell, I have spent a lot for a collector's edition and those money cover also that, why I shouldn't use what I've paid for?

This is an invitation to all Bioware fans to tell your opinion, and let's gather Bioware attention, hoping in a future change of plans. I know that DLCs = easy money, but at least stop selling cheap cheats and splitting the plot in pieces.



Without regret but with hope of will have been understood,
a Bioware fan that have just preordered Mass Effect 3 limited edition (as I have made with Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, and Dragon Age 2*).






PS: forgive me for my lack of english.
*: sorry but I must say it: worst-limited-edition-ever, expecially compared to DA:O.

no one forces you to buy dlc!!! so im not sure where your beef is!

[MouseNo4]

Good to see Stanley Woo enjoying the power.

[Femlob]

MouseNo4 wrote...

Good to see Stanley Woo enjoying the power.

<_<

[WaffleCrab]

Completely agreed.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

The issues with these little DLCs would be solved by simply bundling them all together and releasing them later. The issue with me and people like me isn't that we have to pay for them, but the fact that we have to go 50 different ways to get them. That's more annoying than the stuff existing at all.

Toss the stuff on Origin/PSN/XBL and take my money in three months, and I'll be good.

[TCBC_Freak]

You know what I'm tired of? Having to pay extra for cheese on my hamburger. Darn you Burger King, why not include it, because we all know that cheese is needed to fully experience the burger in all its glory. And while we are at it, I'm sick of paying more for Coke than Dr. Pepper, when will these soda companies learn to price it all the same.... it's not like Dr. Pepper is easier to make than Coke.

I'm sorry for being a little sarcastic but in all honesty DLC is the natural evolution to the industry. It is cheaper to make, cheaper to buy and they can put it out quicker and add things to games that disc space forces them to cut. It's good for them and good for us. It's like the switch from VHS to DVD, yeah there are still people out there trying to watch things on VHS and you know what? They are dumb, they are missing out on awesome stuff for no reason other than their own bullheadedness.

Modifié par TCBC_Freak, 09 février 2012 - 09:17 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

You know what I'm tired of? Having to pay extra for cheese on my hamburger. Darn you Burger King, why not include it, because we all know that cheese is needed to fully experience the burger in all its glory. And while we are at it, I'm sick of paying more for Coke than Dr. Pepper, when will these soda companies learn to price it all the same.... it's not like Dr. Pepper is easier to make than Coke.

I'm sorry for being a little sarcastic but in all honesty DLC is the natural evolution to the industry. It is cheaper to make, cheaper to buy and they can put it out quicker and add things to games that disc space forces them to cut. It's good for them and good for us. It's like the switch from VHS to DVD, yeah there are still people out there trying to watch things on VHS and you know what? They are dumb, they are missing out on awesome stuff for no reason other than their own bullheadedness.

DLC is good and all, but there's plenty of examples of DLC being done utterly wrong.

RE5 for example; it's multiplayer component was on the disc and was locked off for months, held off for DLC.  Skate 3 took a standard game feature and a feature found in Skate and Skate 2--the replay mode--and charged money for it.  Madden games have had alternate uniforms on sale as DLC.  Not as packs, which would've been reasonable, but as one specific uniform for each individual team.  You couldn't even buy all of the alternate uniforms for a specific team in one pack.

Then there's the further tie in of DLC/online passes.  For example, Batman: Arkham City: Catwoman was heavily promoted as being part of the core experience of the game, and yet everyone finds out that Catwoman is DLC like a week before the game comes out if you didn't buy new.  You don't promote something like that and turn around and have it be DLC.  Even more recent, there's a hefty chunk of Kingdoms of Amalur locked off behind a online pass, thus making some missions of the core game DLC.  Whether they're side-missions or story missions, I don't remember.  But judging what I've played of the game so far, that's a lot of hours of gameplay missing regardless.

There's plenty of examples of DLC done terribly, terribly wrong, a lot of them being examples from EA.  While I don't see Bioware's Mass Effect DLC being bad other than the fact that you have to go through billions of hoops to get them in a limited time before avenues are closed off completely for you, what people really fear is something like Liara sidequests being removed from the game and held ransom as DLC because they rented the game instead of dropping $60 on the game day one despite the fact that Liara is core to the game and can be used regardless if you purchased new, used, rented, or whatever.

[CerberusSoldier]

Get use to the fact DLC is a part of games from now on